George Floyd (5 Viewers)

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
I mean, it was a man in America that everybody seems to be focusing on but the people killed in our own city are completely forgotten. It's a good job there was a ready made slogan ready to go.

Not everybody does things based on politics, my first thought isn't which politician I can blame for things is. Thats how people end up jumping into things that because it fits their political narrative.

Let's face it, we are just users on a forum. I'm sure far more know politicians are scheming, sly cunts in it for themselves than knew that those driving BLM were the same.

no not everybody does things based on politics but almost everything that happens involves politics.
Try discussing the disproportionate amount of black men killed by the police in the States or the UKs handling of corona without bringing politics into it. It's not possible because both are deeply political issues.
And as I said, people calling out BLM for having an agenda are using their call for defunding police against them, (which I also think is ludicrous when talking about this country), but those people have said fuck all about the loss of 20,000 police officers and 20,000 civilian police workers in the last decade - so why are they speaking up now, surely that shows they have an agenda?
Shouldn't that be also called out?

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 2, 2020

If the subjugation of a black man or woman isn't political, then what is?!?

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
no not everybody does things based on politics but almost everything that happens involves politics.
Try discussing the disproportionate amount of black men killed by the police in the States or the UKs handling of corona without bringing politics into it. It's not possible because both are deeply political issues.
And as I said, people calling out BLM for having an agenda are using their call for defunding police against them, (which I also think is ludicrous when talking about this country), but those people have said fuck all about the loss of 20,000 police officers and 20,000 civilian police workers in the last decade - so why are they speaking up now, surely that shows they have an agenda?
Shouldn't that be also called out?

Or people are pointing things out about BLM because people have gone all in, blindly without really looking into it?

Maybe because if anybody has dared to ask questions they have been labelled a racist or a "gammon"?

The politics is bullshit and is exactly why things don't get changed properly.

Some of it all is cult like.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Or people are pointing things out about BLM because people have gone all in, blindly without really looking into it?

It's been explained, countless times, you choose not to accept that explanation. What's the point of carrying on?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Or people are pointing things out about BLM because people have gone all in, blindly without really looking into it?

Maybe because if anybody has dared to ask questions they have been labelled a racist or a "gammon"?

The politics is bullshit and is exactly why things don't get changed properly.

Some of it all is cult like.

I don’t quite understand why ‘gammon’ is apparently so offensive but characterising anyone under 30 as a ‘snowflake’ is accepted.

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Or people are pointing things out about BLM because people have gone all in, blindly without really looking into it?

Maybe because if anybody has dared to ask questions they have been labelled a racist or a "gammon"?

The politics is bullshit and is exactly why things don't get changed properly.

Some of it all is cult like.

Who is saying you can't ask questions? I'm certainly not.
And I've asked you several times now, why aren't you calling out the agenda of those jumping on the defund the police thing given they haven't bothered for ten years when it's actually been happening?
And how do you get a solution to these problems without politics?
Remember there have been several enquiries on inequality which collectively contain hundreds of recommendations. The government have refused to implement them and are now going to carry them out yet another enquiry. But yeah, quick, deflect, it's nothing to do with politics.

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's been explained, countless times, you choose not to accept that explanation. What's the point of carrying on?

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I don’t quite understand why ‘gammon’ is apparently so offensive but characterising anyone under 30 as a ‘snowflake’ is accepted.

The irony been that gammons are generally the most easily offended people you could ever meet.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's been explained, countless times, you choose not to accept that explanation. What's the point of carrying on?

Not really, people clearly have gone all in without looking into it.

I pointed this out at the time and people were offended then at the thought that anybody could be jumping on the bandwagon.

This is one of the reasons things struggle to get fixed and people aren't able to have a proper discussion about it.

Wasn't it you who asked me what there was to question about Black Lives Matter and that it should be like a SISU thread where everybody just nods and agrees?

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Not really, people clearly have gone all in without looking into it.

I pointed this out at the time and people were offended then at the thought that anybody could be jumping on the bandwagon.

No they haven't.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
No they haven't.

Really? I'd say places like the BBC and Sky show otherwise. I'd say a lot of people who donated to a go fund me would have donated off the back of the publicity.

Sky were forcing presenters to wear badges supporting it according to one of them.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
Who is saying you can't ask questions? I'm certainly not.
And I've asked you several times now, why aren't you calling out the agenda of those jumping on the defund the police thing given they haven't bothered for ten years when it's actually been happening?
And how do you get a solution to these problems without politics?
Remember there have been several enquiries on inequality which collectively contain hundreds of recommendations. The government have refused to implement them and are now going to carry them out yet another enquiry. But yeah, quick, deflect, it's nothing to do with politics.

Because people's judgement get clouded depending on which party they can blame for things. Just like mine is when it comes to CCFC, massive bias.

I have no doubt there are cunts just purely using the events for politics, there will be ones using it about the police stuff to push their own politics after fucking the police up themselves. Thankfully, those pricks haven't been allowed free reign over the past month or so on football shirts, TV all day every day, radio, news etc.

It's about here and now and finding a way to move forward.

People in general need to be able to have a look at their own actions before blaming a politician for it. (not so much on here, I mean the "Well Cummings went for a drive so I am going to the beach types)

shmmeee · Jul 2, 2020

Are we still on Nick being unable to distinguish between supporting a cause and supporting a specific organisation that supports that cause?

Cant believe Nick supports NOPM and the PSB Group. Clearly just jumped on the bandwagon without thinking.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

shmmeee said:
Are we still on Nick being unable to distinguish between supporting a cause and supporting a specific organisation that supports that cause?

Cant believe Nick supports NOPM and the PSB Group. Clearly just jumped on the bandwagon without thinking.

And you still can't see how your comparison doesn't work?

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 2, 2020

I'm leaving this with a quote from somebody far wiser than I. The thing is, it's so amazingly obvious, it shouldn't need debate.

JimmyHillsbeard said:
It’s not backtracking to pledge support for the movement but fall short of the associated claims of some of its members

At the risk of dividing into black and white, I find there are people who want to lift others up, and I'd rather stick with them, thankyou very much.

Reverting to the statue debate, had people accepted the plaque that was set to go next to it, we would possibly not even be having half of these arguments now. In arguing the minutiae what actually happens is a minority's voice for positive change and recognition gets taken away in favour of the status quo. That then pushes two sides apart until the tensions rise up to the surface into division.

There's no point in this going on.

And on.

And on.

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Because people's judgement get clouded depending on which party they can blame for things. Just like mine is when it comes to CCFC, massive bias.

I have no doubt there are cunts just purely using the events for politics, there will be ones using it about the police stuff to push their own politics after fucking the police up themselves. Thankfully, those pricks haven't been allowed free reign over the past month or so on football shirts, TV all day every day, radio, news etc.

It's about here and now and finding a way to move forward.

People in general need to be able to have a look at their own actions before blaming a politician for it. (not so much on here, I mean the "Well Cummings went for a drive so I am going to the beach types)

but the way forward has to be political.
You can say people should look at their own actions but it has to be political.
BLM was formed after the death of Treyvon Martins, he wasn't the first black person killed in those circumstances. Do you think BLM would have been formed if after a couple of controversial killings and lack of prosecutions the government (and I'm talking purely about in the States here), had said we have to stop this, we need to take decisive action, I don't think it would.

People can discredit BLM, and some of the criticism aimed at it is justified, but you won't find a way forward without political involvement so groups like this will fill the space.

In this country the government has ignored the recommendations of, I think, 3 reviews. So how do people find a way forward when that's what the politicians are doing? It can't be done.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

The movement that was founded on the core principles of the claims people are distancing from?

Of course, it's right there should be equality. It is right that there is no questioning that people should be equal.

My point is more how somebody has made a lot of money by tricking people into thinking it was purely about that. Before everything was "black lives matter", somebody should have stopped to have a look and think. "This might be a bit borderline, it's going to be a bit messy. How about we think up something that is simply just about equality and starting discussions about racism".

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
but the way forward has to be political.
You can say people should look at their own actions but it has to be political.
BLM was formed after the death of Treyvon Martins, he wasn't the first black person killed in those circumstances. Do you think BLM would have been formed if after a couple of controversial killings and lack of prosecutions the government (and I'm talking purely about in the States here), had said we have to stop this, we need to take decisive action, I don't think it would.

People can discredit BLM, and some of the criticism aimed at it is justified, but you won't find a way forward without political involvement so groups like this will fill the space.

In this country the government has ignored the recommendations of, I think, 3 reviews. So how do people find a way forward when that's what the politicians are doing? It can't be done.

I don't need politicians to set an example for me though? I know full well that whichever party they are in, they are in it for themselves and couldn't give a shit.

Again, people in the UK need to stop being so obsessed with trying to be American. There are people in Coventry who have died because of police and were different races, look a bit closer to home (I know you personally have, I mean in general).

As I have said, BLM isn't really much different to Tommy Robinson asking people to donate to him because he says stuff about grooming gangs or terrorists. It's praying on people for their own gains.

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
I don't need politicians to set an example for me though? I know full well that whichever party they are in, they are in it for themselves and couldn't give a shit.

Again, people in the UK need to stop being so obsessed with trying to be American. There are people in Coventry who have died because of police and were different races, look a bit closer to home (I know you personally have, I mean in general).

As I have said, BLM isn't really much different to Tommy Robinson asking people to donate to him because he says stuff about grooming gangs or terrorists. It's praying on people for their own gains.

no, but politics govern our lives, it's inescapable. Racism in on the rise, I'm not responsible but I can't influence the whole of society, politicians can.
I haven't been to an illegal rave but I can't stop people, politicians can. They put enough effort into stopping them in the 80s.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
no, but politics govern our lives, it's inescapable. Racism in on the rise, I'm not responsible but I can't influence the whole of society, politicians can.
I haven't been to an illegal rave but I can't stop people, politicians can. They put enough effort into stopping them in the 80s.

Politicians will do what suits politicians.

I'd bet racism has been on the rise over the past month or so (in all directions). That's because there have been massive wooden spoons out trying to stir things up as much as they and to make everybody about race.

Instead of opening valuable discussions it's been "White silence is violence" from one end and then the cunts like we saw in broadgate at the other end of the spectrum. I have even seen the BBC label the countryside as racist FFS. It's been just the same as Brexit.

The majority of it bullshit isn't even people of different races who have grown up with these issues as part of their lives, it's people who want to spin it and whip things up for their own gain.

shmmeee · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
The movement that was founded on the core principles of the claims people are distancing from?

Of course, it's right there should be equality. It is right that there is no questioning that people should be equal.

My point is more how somebody has made a lot of money by tricking people into thinking it was purely about that. Before everything was "black lives matter", somebody should have stopped to have a look and think. "This might be a bit borderline, it's going to be a bit messy. How about we think up something that is simply just about equality and starting discussions about racism".

Honestly, have you ever met humans? You want millions of people with no connection to sit down and have a meeting about the phrase they’re saying first. And you don’t think that’s slightly ridiculous?

You are choosing to give prominence to one organisation, just you. For most people it’s not about them it’s about the message itself. If people have donated then that’s their lookout but it’s not most people who have. Maybe there are thousands who want to donate who do agree with the orgs aims? Maybe they don’t and need to look into shit more, but how does that delegitimise them?

You’re no different to people who claim Brexit is all about white nationalists being racist and even if they think Brexit is best they shouldn’t vote for it because it encourages the racists. It’s clear nonsense designed to reduce support for the overall cause and not a serious concern at all.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

shmmeee said:
Honestly, have you ever met humans? You want millions of people with no connection to sit down and have a meeting about the phrase they’re saying first. And you don’t think that’s slightly ridiculous?

You are choosing to give prominence to one organisation, just you. For most people it’s not about them it’s about the message itself. If people have donated then that’s their lookout but it’s not most people who have. Maybe there are thousands who want to donate who do agree with the orgs aims? Maybe they don’t and need to look into shit more, but how does that delegitimise them?

You’re no different to people who claim Brexit is all about white nationalists being racist and even if they think Brexit is best they shouldn’t vote for it because it encourages the racists. It’s clear nonsense designed to reduce support for the overall cause and not a serious concern at all.

Would I expect somebody to look into a phrase they are saying and shouting? I probably would but I can understand why people haven't. Would I expect people to try and figure things out for themselves? Why not?

Would I expect celebrities, influencer and places like the BBC? Of course. You would at least think companies and organisations would have, they wouldn't need to backtrack then and slowly get rid of the Black Lives Matter stuff from their channels.

The "message" just happened to push people to donate lots of money and in turn listen to their political views, it isn't as if the moneyspinners were setup quickly after it all kicked off. It was all there in place.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 2, 2020

@Nick You've given it a really good go but I would honestly save yourself the time and stress.

There is pretty much one opinion here and if you don't agree with it, even if you try to be balanced and have dialogue, you find yourself having to defend yourself in countless arguments. That's why many people don't bother any more.

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Would I expect somebody to look into a phrase they are saying and shouting? I probably would but I can understand why people haven't. Would I expect people to try and figure things out for themselves? Why not?

Would I expect celebrities, influencer and places like the BBC? Of course. You would at least think companies and organisations would have, they wouldn't need to backtrack then and slowly get rid of the Black Lives Matter stuff from their channels.

The "message" just happened to push people to donate lots of money and in turn listen to their political views, it isn't as if the moneyspinners were setup quickly after it all kicked off. It was all there in place.

the irony that yesterday you retweeted something from Andy Ngo.

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
@Nick You've given it a really good go but I would honestly save yourself the time and stress.

There is pretty much one opinion here and if you don't agree with it, even if you try to be balanced and have dialogue, you find yourself having to defend yourself in countless arguments. That's why many people don't bother any more.

what are you on about now for fucks sake?
I have been arguing with Nick all morning, it's not just me disagreeing with him, he's also disagreeing with me, that's debate.
I doubt he's getting stressed about it, I'm certainly not.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
the irony that yesterday you retweeted something from Andy Ngo.

What have I retweeted?

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
what are you on about now for fucks sake?
I have been arguing with Nick all morning, it's not just me disagreeing with him, he's also disagreeing with me, that's debate.
I doubt he's getting stressed about it, I'm certainly not.

Probably because I am not bothered when dicks try to make out I am racist or am scared about equality (not you).

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Probably because I am not bothered when dicks try to make out I am racist or am scared about equality (not you).

sorry, wrong terminology, posted a tweet from Andy Ngo, post 3129. Right wing grifter who's not shy at asking for cash, (or getting one of his lackeys to do it).

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Probably because I am not bothered when dicks try to make out I am racist or am scared about equality (not you).

who has said you're racist? Someone on here?

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
who has said you're racist? Someone on here?

Look back through, surprisingly D'OD has gone quiet on this thread.

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Look back through, surprisingly D'OD has gone quiet on this thread.

I'm not reading this lot again!!

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
sorry, wrong terminology, posted a tweet from Andy Ngo, post 3129. Right wing grifter who's not shy at asking for cash, (or getting one of his lackeys to do it).

I am not saying BLM is unique to pushing a view to get a bit of cash, it's just the other cunts aren't all over the TV 24/7 or on football shirts.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 2, 2020

Nick said:
Look back through, surprisingly D'OD has gone quiet on this thread.

Probably bored off.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

clint van damme said:
I'm not reading this lot again!!

Mainly him and the Gammon stuff. Then there's the implication that if you question anything you don't want change.

Nick · Jul 2, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
Probably bored off.

Not as if he provided any constructive input, just effectively shouted racist or gammon over and over.

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