George Floyd (3 Viewers)

Nick · Jun 18, 2020

David O'Day said:
It's a surprising and confusing situation as they jobs there were applying for are jobs such as shop assistants.

I don't doubt that name will give an instant impression for some which of course isn't right. Same could be said if your kid is called "Chardonnay" or something like that.

Is it the case that more BAME people need to be in recruitment?

I once worked somewhere where they had white people to do sales and asian people to do the technical stuff. They also had their wives clean the carpets with tooth brushes on a weekend. Long time ago and since closed.

When you go to Wing Wah, nobody has a Chinese name either. When I go for food I don't care if they are "Keith" or "Ian" or use their actual Chinese names. They must do it for a reason. The irony would be great if a racist went there for food and whinged about their name.

Walsgrave · Jun 18, 2020

Nick said:
I don't doubt that name will give an instant impression for some which of course isn't right.

Is it the case that more BAME people need to be in recruitment?

I once worked somewhere where they had white people to do sales and asian people to do the technical stuff. They also had their wives clean the carpets with tooth brushes on a weekend. Long time ago and since closed.

When you go to Wing Wah, nobody has a Chinese name either.

The problem is that with the way a lot of hiring works nowadays, there's too many people involved which gives too high a chance for people to be discriminated against on whatever grounds. For instance, look at the way recruitment agencies have sandwiched themselves between job applicants and hirees - there's more jobs for recruitment consultants than for actual work it seems. These recruitment consultants, who exploit the relative difficulty companies face when hiring, can do whatever they like, without the companies ever actually getting to decide for themselves about whether an applicant is suitable or not.

Gone are the days where most companies hire directly. It's always something like a recruitment agency saying "An outstanding school in West London is looking for a well-qualified teacher of Geography". This is in Education, of all things! You'd think that interested applicants would apply to the schools themselves and the schools would be able to look for applicants themselves, but money talks. And that's where vested interests unfortunately prevail - be it financial, or otherwise.

bezzer · Jun 18, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
You’ve pretty much just described the school system there. Catchment area doesn’t mean a fat lot anymore, unless it’s an underfunded, failing school in a deprived area that no one is trying to get its kids into. We moved a few years ago and the people we sold our house too brought it because it was in the catchment for Ashlawn, within a year it was out the catchment, our new house remained in the catchment despite being literally just down the road. Our eldest got into Ashlawn and started with kids from not just all over the town but kids who don’t live in Rugby and kids that don’t even live in Warwickshire. Two years later our youngest is going up to high school and again the catchment has changed, again our house is no longer in the catchment (I can walk to Ashlawn with a dodgy knee in 4 minutes flat) and my youngest’s got in on the basis of sibling already at school. Schools, especially high schools are picking and choosing more and more who they accept. Catchment areas are becoming a thing of the past.

One of the reasons Ashlawn has children from all over Rugby as well as from outside, is due mainly to it having a 'selective' element for admissions. We live in Clifton and all 3 of ours went to Ashlawn by passing the 11+ with a grade allowing entry into the grammar stream. Unless things have changed in the past 3 years, you can only attend if you live in the catchment area or are in the grammar stream.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Jun 18, 2020

There's more to education in rugby than Ashlawn School. Run by bullies and ,arrogant bastards . They care nothing of the kids at all. As for that last head, she should have gone to prison from what I heard she was up to ."Escorted off the premises" wasn't it ?
I think the head of governors remains. Shame on then all.

skybluetony176 · Jun 18, 2020

bezzer said:
One of the reasons Ashlawn has children from all over Rugby as well as from outside, is due mainly to it having a 'selective' element for admissions. We live in Clifton and all 3 of ours went to Ashlawn by passing the 11+ with a grade allowing entry into the grammar stream. Unless things have changed in the past 3 years, you can only attend if you live in the catchment area or are in the grammar stream.

True, but I’m talking about kids who didn’t pass their 11+. My eldest is in a tight group of about six girls, of them only three including my daughter are from Hillmorton, of them 3 1 wasn’t in catchment at the time and as of last year none of them are anymore and none of the six passed their 11+.

skybluetony176 · Jun 18, 2020

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
There's more to education in rugby than Ashlawn School. Run by bullies and ,arrogant bastards . They care nothing of the kids at all. As for that last head, she should have gone to prison from what I heard she was up to ."Escorted off the premises" wasn't it ?
I think the head of governors remains. Shame on then all.

I think she did end up in prison IIRC.

bezzer · Jun 18, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
True, but I’m talking about kids who didn’t pass their 11+. My eldest is in a tight group of about six girls, of them only three including my daughter are from Hillmorton, of them 3 1 wasn’t in catchment at the time and as of last year none of them are anymore and none of the six passed their 11+.

As I said, the criteria must have changed since my youngest was admitted 7 years ago.

Lois Reed didn't serve time for her 'misjudgments' She was a nasty piece of work. The whole board of Governors should have stepped down when she went. They were complicit in her dodgy dealings.

Ian1779 · Jun 18, 2020

The problems in education are so vast - you could probably start an entire thread on it.

Just one small example of something that is contributing to the inequality is class sizes. One of the positive things about independent schools is how small their classes are in comparison to state schools. Where will you find the largest class sizes? Inner-city stare schools that already struggle to adequately staff as it is.

And as much as the government have failed to invest adequately for many years - Academy chains compound this further. When they do get additional funding to close the gap or address underachievement, the academy chains could spend it on a group of core subject teachers to reduce class sizes for all... but they instead spend it on ‘educational advisers’ that do nothing for the kids or ever go in front of a class.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Jun 18, 2020

David O'Day said:
ADM is doubly weird because he says maybe black people don't want to be lawyers when Lammy is talking about the prospects of black people who are already lawyers.

If they're already lawyers what's the problem ?
Do all teachers want to become head teachers ? Certainly not. Does everyone in a professional job want, ultimately, to get to the top. I don't think so.......weirdly.
And sometimes those who should be at the top just don't get there. Wrong time, wrong place.
.... wrong race......I hear you cry.

Skybluefaz · Jun 18, 2020

Skybluefaz · Jun 18, 2020

As a white man I unsurprisingly have only one example of such micro-agressions. An old fella clocked my name badge when I was working in a shop once, being of Irish descent he said 'I don't mind the Irish, good workers'. Just struck me as a bit odd. I suppose looking back that is the only time I've noticed someone kind of form some sort of opinion about me based on something other than my character. If he'd have got to know me he'd know I was a right twat obviously.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Jun 18, 2020

Skybluefaz said:

Didn't he used to be a Welshman in casualty ?
...now he's on the bandwagon.

RegTheDonk · Jun 18, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
How different is that to how it works now, in general?

Because a paper sift or a pre-interview awareness session can identify non-professional reasons for not progressing a candidate.

This would be a step towards removing any unconscious bias - or out and out racism - from the selection process.

It will also stop anyone blaming unconscious bias - or out and out racism - for the reason they didn't get the job (or weren't even offered an interview).

Darth Robins · Jun 18, 2020

It's going to kick off again in the US again tonight. There's an announcement due on the Breonna Taylor case today and they're preparing for it by... evacuating the courthouse and boarding it all up. Only one reason to do that!

shmmeee · Jun 18, 2020

David O'Day said:
People don't seem to get that economic injustice is part of the issue of structural racism

It is. The question is is structural racism part of the issue of economic injustice?

shmmeee · Jun 18, 2020

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
do gooder.

abahahahahahahahahahaha

“Look at you, doing good like some kind of chump. Not like me the do shitter”

WTF even is that?

shmmeee · Jun 18, 2020

Nick said:
Yet you still haven't explained 2 of the best schools in Coventry being in deprived areas and a high BAME percentage of pupils?

It's not all about skin colour. I might be privileged that I bought a house and have a mortgage, however somebody placed by the council with no job has access to a better school than me regardless of skin colour.

Stringer is well known to be Outstanding because it has a huge amount of support staff paid for by masses of EAL funding.

The other is Finham Id guess and has high Asian middle class population in the area because they move there.

We don’t really have a “black” area in Cov do we? But look at Foleshill to see how great the non middle class ethnic schools are. The primaries at least are absolute shit holes.

stupot07 · Jun 18, 2020

This threads gone strange again. I dont know how anyone can deny there isnt structural racism.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Nick · Jun 18, 2020

stupot07 said:
This threads gone strange again. I dont know how anyone can deny there isnt structural racism.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Nobody is, just trying to learn more about it.

Ignorant pricks like coventrian are obvious, it's more the hidden away stuff I'm asking about.

chiefdave · Jun 18, 2020

Darth Ranson said:
It's going to kick off again in the US again tonight. There's an announcement due on the Breonna Taylor case today and they're preparing for it by... evacuating the courthouse and boarding it all up. Only one reason to do that!

From the details that have been released so far it doesn't look good on the police. Once again no footage from the body cameras of any of the officers involved and if the content of the 911 call from her boyfriend is anything like what is being reported its pretty damning.

That's before you even consider the police went into her apartment on a 'no-knock' warrant, surely something that shouldn't exist in general but especially in a country where so many people are armed.

Also something doesn't seem right about the multiple instances of black men being found hung from trees that are said to be suicides.

shmmeee · Jun 18, 2020

Nick said:
I don't doubt that name will give an instant impression for some which of course isn't right. Same could be said if your kid is called "Chardonnay" or something like that.

Is it the case that more BAME people need to be in recruitment?

I once worked somewhere where they had white people to do sales and asian people to do the technical stuff. They also had their wives clean the carpets with tooth brushes on a weekend. Long time ago and since closed.

When you go to Wing Wah, nobody has a Chinese name either. When I go for food I don't care if they are "Keith" or "Ian" or use their actual Chinese names. They must do it for a reason. The irony would be great if a racist went there for food and whinged about their name.

Apparently it’s quite common for Chinese people to pick an English name because we can’t pronounce theirs. This according to “Wendy” and “Sherry” that did a placement at our work. TBH I was kinda offended at the idea Chinese names are too hard for me.

shmmeee · Jun 18, 2020

stupot07 said:
This threads gone strange again. I dont know how anyone can deny there isnt structural racism.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

It’s one of those phrases though, like “white privilege” that is hard for people to understand what’s meant. And I think there is a lot of class inequality mixed up that’s hard to disentangle.

My missus can’t get over the fact that at nearly 40 people still give a shit about the secondary school I went to and what my grades were. We do so much to inhibit social mobility in this country and you need an extreme culture of harsh parenting and hard work to overcome it. If anything IMO (controversial thought incoming but it’s in its infancy so be kind) the black community is too much like the white working class community and without social mobility is all stuck on the bottom rung. Ironically they integrated too well.

That’s not to say structural racism doesn’t exist, but to try and tease out the strands that make it up and ideally come up with interventions. Though I’ll admit most of my solutions boil down to better social mobility for the working classes.

Otis · Jun 19, 2020

This is shocking. I wasn't aware of this at all.

When slavery was abolished in 1833, the UK government raised huge amounts for compensation. However, that money was not paid to those who had been enslaved, but was given instead to slave-owners for their "loss of human property".

David O'Day · Jun 19, 2020

Otis said:
This is shocking. I wasn't aware of this at all.

When slavery was abolished in 1833, the UK government raised huge amounts for compensation. However, that money was not paid to those who had been enslaved, but was given instead to slave-owners for their "loss of human property".

2015 or something is when we stopped paying that back

Otis · Jun 19, 2020

David O'Day said:
2015 or something is when we stopped paying that back

That's staggering.

hill83 · Jun 19, 2020

Otis said:
This is shocking. I wasn't aware of this at all.

When slavery was abolished in 1833, the UK government raised huge amounts for compensation. However, that money was not paid to those who had been enslaved, but was given instead to slave-owners for their "loss of human property".

And the government tried to sell it as a win that we had paid it off.

I have been paying off the potential owners of some of my ancestors with my own hard earned cash. Lovely stuff.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 19, 2020

shmmeee said:
Apparently it’s quite common for Chinese people to pick an English name because we can’t pronounce theirs. This according to “Wendy” and “Sherry” that did a placement at our work. TBH I was kinda offended at the idea Chinese names are too hard for me.

I went out with a Chinese girl for a while who used her own name. Amazing how many people still anglicised a name of one syllable!

David O'Day · Jun 19, 2020

Otis said:
That's staggering.

1.25 billion in todays money

Nick · Jun 19, 2020

Who were they still paying? Relatives?

On the radio it says they are reviewing swing low, sweet chariot.

David O'Day · Jun 19, 2020

Nick said:
Who were they still paying? Relatives?

On the radio it says they are reviewing swing low, sweet chariot.

Banks and financial institutions

We borrowed the money in 1833.

Skybluefaz · Jun 19, 2020

Nick said:
Who were they still paying? Relatives?

On the radio it says they are reviewing swing low, sweet chariot.

I'm quoting second hand, but I think Samantha Cameron has been a beneficiary of the 'compensation'

David O'Day · Jun 19, 2020

Skybluefaz said:
I'm quoting second hand, but I think Samantha Cameron has been a beneficiary of the 'compensation'

Her family did in 1833 but to avoid any misunderstanding we did not only stop paying the slave owners etc in 2015 we paid them back in 1833. We borrowed the money to pay in full in 1833 from banks and other lenders. It is this debt we finally paid off in 2015.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 19, 2020

Otis said:
This is shocking. I wasn't aware of this at all.

When slavery was abolished in 1833, the UK government raised huge amounts for compensation. However, that money was not paid to those who had been enslaved, but was given instead to slave-owners for their "loss of human property".

How do you get greedy people to give something up? Pay them off.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 19, 2020

Otis said:
This is shocking. I wasn't aware of this at all.

When slavery was abolished in 1833, the UK government raised huge amounts for compensation. However, that money was not paid to those who had been enslaved, but was given instead to slave-owners for their "loss of human property".

I was aware that was the case but it is the sad fact of living in a country that is obsessed with and run by those who put financial wealth above all else. Many of those involved in the voting would've been slave owners/traders and were never going to agree to abolition unless they were compensated for the money they'd spent on them. So it was pay them or don't end slavery and I think they chose the more palatable option.

It is of course a travesty and frankly I wonder if there will be a time when those descendents still seeking reparations (something I admit I don't particularly agree with) should be allowed to chase up the funds from these institutions and have them redistributed to them. Anyone with a shred of decency would have already done so but I assume many have not.

Massive legal problems of course with it as IMO the ones that should be most accountable are the traders who kidnapped and sold those people ahead of the owners who paid for them because I think it's dangerous to put modern sensibilities onto the actions of previous generations, however abhorrent it was. For all we know in centuries to come us buying and owning pets may be seen as a terrible thing and as horrible as it is that's probably akin to how slave owners of that time considered them.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Jun 19, 2020

shmmeee said:
abahahahahahahahahahaha

“Look at you, doing good like some kind of chump. Not like me the do shitter”

WTF even is that?

Yes, WTF is that ?

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