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General Election 2019 thread (4 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Philosoraptor
  • Start date Oct 29, 2019
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fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,256
Astute said:
Because I understand what has been going on?
Click to expand...

No, you don't.

Everyone now has a worse off pension. Yet you want 58 billion given to women because their pension age was brought into line with mens.

Depends which way you look at it. Women want equal rights. And they should have equal rights. But they don't want equal rights when it doesn't benefit them.

So if they get the money for having their state pension raised how about men as theirs was also raised.
Click to expand...

It isn't about the equalisation it's about the implementation of it. It was entirely unreasonable of the coalition government to speed up the implementation given that many women had planned their retirement on the basis of the implementation period agreed in 1995.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,257
Astute said:
But they did provide 200,000 temporary accommodations for the homeless. Does this count? It only costs billions a year which is wasted.
Click to expand...
A) The government didn’t, councils did.
B) it was £1.1B and a third of that came straight from existing council budgets.
C) The additional funding came from the department for work and pensions not the £2.2B pledged for the building of starter homes.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,258
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Why? Its pointing out actual facts
Click to expand...
The actual facts are that this well documented liar claimed not to be one (another lie in itself) so the audience had to be given time to pick themselves up of the floor. He answers deliberately to outrage so he has less time to speak because the reality is he has nothing to say.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,259
skybluetony176 said:
The actual facts are that this well documented liar claimed not to be one (another lie in itself) so the audience had to be given time to pick themselves up of the floor. He answers deliberately to outrage so he has less time to speak because the reality is he has nothing to say.
Click to expand...
Even Grendel said Johnson got an easy ride and he did. He got a ranty student who descended rapidly from anythiung approaching coherance, and he was allowed to swap every answer around to Get Brexit Done.

It's reminding me of Family Guy!

 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,260
Deleted member 5849 said:
(and in some cases, corporations that are nationalised public utilities in their own countries)
Click to expand...
The French government has a bigger stake in British railways (Network Rail aside). Seem to remember reading somewhere that the French government was also a recipient of British government handouts to failing franchises because of this.

Network Rail is a good argument also for renationalisation as it’s the perfect example of how a private company can’t be trusted and if you look at any of the ratings for European railways the only reason that the U.K. scores as high as it does is because of our excellent (since back in public ownership) safety record. We fail miserably on the sections of the Rail industry that’s in private ownership.
 
Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
W

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,261
Astute said:
May not yes. But you state it as a certainty.

The lead is so big that Labour would need zero votes in some places to be able to compete in others. The Tories are said to have nearly half of the voters. And there is more than two parties.

No deal? There is already an agreement between the EU and Boris. Keep up.
Click to expand...
A lead of 47% may have been sufficient to hand the Tories a handsome majority to the Tories in the past, and it certainly worked in the Thatcher years where they polled around 42%, but I'm afraid that what you fail to grasp is that we are no longer in a two party system. 2017 was a slight deviation from that, where Labour and the Conservatives gained over 82% of the vote but now more than ever it is looking like we will see other parties gain a large percentage of the vote again, throwing up all sports of distortions.

Having a deal with the EU is one thing, but passing it through Parliament is another. I think you need to realise that the likelihood of No Deal come December of next year is more than a slim possibility and not to look at things in such a black and white way, because No Deal is what major businesses/other stakeholders are planning for, and it is therefore you that is behind the times my friend.
 
Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,262
Walsgrave said:
A lead of 47% may have been sufficient to hand the Tories a handsome majority to the Tories in the past, and it certainly worked in the Thatcher years where they polled around 42%, but I'm afraid that what you fail to grasp is that we are no longer in a two party system.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, 83 saw a massive Tory majority as much because three parties (well, two parties and an alliance of two parties, for the anally retentive) took sizeable shares of the vote. Alliance weren't that far behind Labour at all in percentage terms.

Maybe Brexit is 2019's Falklands...
 
Reactions: Astute
W

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,263
Deleted member 5849 said:
Hmmm, 83 saw a massive Tory majority as much because three parties (well, two parties and an alliance of two parties, for the anally retentive) took sizeable shares of the vote. Alliance weren't that far behind Labour at all in percentage terms.

Maybe Brexit is 2019's Falklands...
Click to expand...
Possibly, but I'd guess not because the Falklands had already been won by that and so despite the initial unpopularity, it was a great source of pride. The outcome of Brexit at this stage is ambiguous to say the least, and there's certainly not a unanimous verdict about its merits.
 
Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,264
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Its clever I'd say
Click to expand...

To be fair they’ve had practice conning voters for decades
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,265
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Thought Boris smashed the leaders debate Friday night after how hostile and bias the audience was, was a disgrace how many times he was interrupted
Click to expand...

Yeah almost like Corbyn getting heckled for talking about a 4 day week. Though your fat messiah treated doctors, nurses and teachers asking the questions with contempt
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,266
Deleted member 5849 said:
Then hopefully you'll take my criticism that constantly setting yourself up as arbiter of the truth, and stater of facts is not a good look, especially when it comes to perspectives.

There is one ideology that says oh no, firm moves holding company overseas, that means evil state intervention is going after innocent investors and trying to restrict their dividends - competition will not work if that happens.

The argument for nationalisation of public uitilities has been made many times before - I even made it in my response to theferret earlier. Any self respecting lefty knows that answer, even if they moderate where they choose to draw the line, such as CvD on water rather than power.

Personally, I consider evidence of utility companies putting investors first ahead of public service to be an excellent argument as to why they should be renationalised, and why their role should be skewed towards providing a service and profit to the state, rather than profit to foreign corporations (and in some cases, corporations that are nationalised public utilities in their own countries).

That's all I'll have to say on the matter, because I don't have enough hours in the day to constantly argue over misreadings. FACT
Click to expand...
Just one question. Why should anyone be forced to sell something at well under the true value?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,267
Astute said:
It most probably did him a favour.
Click to expand...

Only you, Dim and G will argue he comes out of that looking good.
 
Reactions: Ian1779

SkyBlueCharlie9

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,268
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Boris Johnson's blueprint for post-Brexit Britain: Tory manifesto promises a million more homes | Daily Mail Online
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Interesting you are bringing the Tory's track record on house building into the debate .......It doesn't stand up to srcutiny "The Tories' 2015 manifesto committed the party to building 200,000 'Starter Homes', to be sold at a 20% discount and exclusively available to first-time buyers under the age of 40". Number of homes built under this scheme....a big fat 0. No homes built under flagship 2015 Tory housing pledge, watchdog finds
The Tory's have tried to avoid placing these sort of restriction on major volume housebuilders such as Berkeley and numerous others despite them recording their highest ever margins/profits - and unsuprisingly housebuilders have major links to donations and lobbying of the Conservative party.. Disgusting!
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,269
fernandopartridge said:
No, you don't.



It isn't about the equalisation it's about the implementation of it. It was entirely unreasonable of the coalition government to speed up the implementation given that many women had planned their retirement on the basis of the implementation period agreed in 1995.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. But it has been more than women that have been screwed. And the problem is we are all easy targets with pensions, both private and state.
 

SkyBlueCharlie9

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,270
SkyBlueDom26 said:
He didn't have a chance to even speak, every other leader had plenty of time however Boris didn't

BBC faces bias row after Boris Johnson is confronted by hostile audience on Question Time | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...
Every chuffin election the DM publishes this inaccurate tired article having a dig at the BBC bias. Crack pot journalism at its finest. People should be embarrassed to read or refer to this comic.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,271
Walsgrave said:
Possibly, but I'd guess not because the Falklands had already been won by that and so despite the initial unpopularity, it was a great source of pride. The outcome of Brexit at this stage is ambiguous to say the least, and there's certainly not a unanimous verdict about its merits.
Click to expand...
You can get a big majority with only 35% of the vote. This is the problem with FPTP.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,272
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Only you, Dim and G will argue he comes out of that looking good.
Click to expand...
Excuse me. Cut out your normal crap. Jist point out a single time I have ever praised or said anything good about Boris.

Some of the diatribe you come out with is getting well past a joke now.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,273
SkyBlueCharlie9 said:
Interesting you are bringing the Tory's track record on house building into the debate .......It doesn't stand up to srcutiny "The Tories' 2015 manifesto committed the party to building 200,000 'Starter Homes', to be sold at a 20% discount and exclusively available to first-time buyers under the age of 40". Number of homes built under this scheme....a big fat 0. No homes built under flagship 2015 Tory housing pledge, watchdog finds
The Tory's have tried to avoid placing these sort of restriction on major volume housebuilders such as Berkeley and numerous others despite them recording their highest ever margins/profits - and unsuprisingly housebuilders have major links to donations and lobbying of the Conservative party.. Disgusting!
Click to expand...
Would you like to make a comment on the Labour history on the subject? They are as bad as each other.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,274
SkyBlueCharlie9 said:
Every chuffin election the DM publishes this inaccurate tired article having a dig at the BBC bias. Crack pot journalism at its finest. People should be embarrassed to read or refer to this comic.
Click to expand...
Except when they do an article on the side of remain or anti Tory. Then it is acceptable. As has been shown several times before on here.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,275
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Only you, Dim and G will argue he comes out of that looking good.
Click to expand...
My name isn't Dim you melt
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,276
SkyBlueDom26 said:
My name isn't Dim you melt
Click to expand...

How did you know it was about you then?
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue, skybluetony176, Deleted member 5849 and 3 others

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,277
fernandopartridge said:
How did you know it was about you then?
Click to expand...
Haha very funny
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,278
Astute said:
Would you like to make a comment on the Labour history on the subject? They are as bad as each other.
Click to expand...

Still doing schroedingers Labour I see.

Simultaneously crazy lefties and neoliberal Blairites depending on the argument.
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,279
SkyBlueCharlie9 said:
Every chuffin election the DM publishes this inaccurate tired article having a dig at the BBC bias. Crack pot journalism at its finest. People should be embarrassed to read or refer to this comic.
Click to expand...

Hilarious if you look at the actual people in BBC politics since the changes under Osbourne.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,280
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Its clever I'd say
Click to expand...

Unlike the people who would be taken in by such a blatant piece of propaganda.

But then that, and the other underhand stuff like FactCheck UK, tells you everything you need to know about the Tories at the moment and their opinion of the common person - assume they're thick as pig shit. And given the lead in the polls it appears they're right.

If Labour did it would you consider it clever, or underhanded?

Btw, have you read any of the manifestos yet?
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,281
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Btw, have you read any of the manifestos yet?
Click to expand...

Obviously, both parties seem to be growing money trees however labours is extraordinary

Conservatives is much more sensible than nationalising everything
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,282
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Thought Boris smashed the leaders debate Friday night after how hostile and bias the audience was, was a disgrace how many times he was interrupted
Click to expand...

He was terrible, and only saved from total humilation because of Swinson. He got interrupted because he wasn't answering question and answering in a confrontational, antagonistic manner. It got that hostile because of his approach that led to the crowd getting more and more exasperated.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,283
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
. He got interrupted because he wasn't answering question and answering in a confrontational, antagonistic manner. It got that hostile because of his approach that led to the crowd getting more and more exasperated.
Click to expand...
Thats just bollocks dreamer and you know it, he was heckled and interrupted throughout unfairly
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,284
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Obviously, both parties seem to be growing money trees however labours is extraordinary

Conservatives is much more sensible than nationalising everything
Click to expand...

I'll ask again, why do you prefer the current model to nationalisation?

Our water companies are paying huge dividends to foreign investors out of the profits they make from the British tax payer, we bail out failing rail franchises with British tax payers money yet successful franchise keep the profits - are you happy with that? The infrastructure of both industries is poor, we could be improving it instead of sending money abroad in the form of dividends.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,285
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Thats just bollocks dreamer and you know it, he was heckled and interrupted throughout unfairly
Click to expand...

again, who is the audience manager for question time? Do you seriously think she favours Corbyn?
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,286
clint van damme said:
again, who is the audience manager for question time? Do you seriously think she favours Corbyn?
Click to expand...
Well judging by the audience selected yes
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,287
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Well judging by the audience selected yes
Click to expand...

you're very, very wrong. Look her up, Alison Fuller-Pedley. Look at what she got reprimanded by her bosses for.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,288
clint van damme said:
you're very, very wrong. Look her up, Alison Fuller-Pedley. Look at what she got reprimanded by her bosses for.
Click to expand...
How can you not agree that the audience was bias towards Corbyn
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,289
SkyBlueDom26 said:
How can you not agree that the audience was bias towards Corbyn
Click to expand...

because of who the audience manager was, to suggest she picked a pro Corbyn audience is frankly ludicrous.
There is also a long history of tory plants as well as the fact that farage, who isn't an elected MP has been on more this century than everyone with the exception of Kenneth Clark.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2019
  • #3,290
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Obviously, both parties seem to be growing money trees however labours is extraordinary

Conservatives is much more sensible than nationalising everything
Click to expand...
The gap between Labour pledges and what they intend to raise to meet it is far narrower than the Tories. And the Tories missed loads of existing commitments out of their manifesto. What ever magic money tree forest you think labour needs the Tories needs to many acres bigger. They’re either not ending austerity or their manifesto isn’t worth wiping your arse on.
 
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