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General Election 2019 thread (5 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Philosoraptor
  • Start date Oct 29, 2019
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,681
SkyBlueDom26 said:
No reason why the conservatives can't take some SNP seats
Click to expand...

Yeah, no reason why Labour won’t win a supermajority too, other than all signs point against it.

Who in Scotland is looking forward to an election?

Cons hit their high tide in Scotland last couple of elections. Not to mention they made gains as the party of the union and they’ve 180ed on that recently. Can’t be both the English National Party and the Conservative and Unionist Party.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,682
shmmeee said:
Swinsons entire shtick is taking remain leaning anti-Corbyn voters. Corbyns is a balanced Brexit position and an expanded state. They can’t go into coalition without killing their own votes.

Best that could happen is unilateral decisions to stand down by individual candidates, which looks like it’s happening in some places but then the Libs are trying their best to fuck that up. Because shooting themselves in the face is what Lib Dem’s do best.
Click to expand...
So what exactly does Corbyn want to do with Brexit?
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,683
shmmeee said:
Yeah, no reason why Labour won’t win a supermajority too, other than all signs point against it.

Who in Scotland is looking forward to an election?

Cons hit their high tide in Scotland last couple of elections. Not to mention they made gains as the party of the union and they’ve 180ed on that recently. Can’t be both the English National Party and the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Click to expand...

Fucking hell what happened to labour in Scotland, from 2010-2015 they virtually lost every seat
 
Reactions: SkyBlueCharlie9

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,684
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Fucking hell what happened to labour in Scotland, from 2010-2015 they virtually lost every seat
Click to expand...

Indie Ref. They came out on the wrong side.
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,685
What happened in Scotland. Well here's one of the symptoms but not the root cause.

Apparently felt they were politically closer to the Tory's then SNP.

 
Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
Reactions: shmmeee and SkyBlueDom26

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,686
Philosorapter said:
What happened in Scotland. Well here's one of the symptoms but not he root cause.

Apparently felt they were politically closer to the Tory's then SNP.

Click to expand...

Which is weird cos the Tartan Tories aren’t called that for no reason.

I think like in Coventry, when you feel you’re untouchable standards slip.
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,687
Apparently, I may be wrong here but their argument in defence is that no one told them they can't do a coalition with the Tory's.

Yeah, that will be okay then.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,688
Astute said:
Other than the Tories are trying to force Brexit through and the Scottish want to remain in the EU.
Click to expand...

more people voted to leave the EU in Scotland then for the SNP
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,689
Grendel said:
more people voted to leave the EU in Scotland then for the SNP
Click to expand...

How many options available on the ballot paper for the EU referendum? How many options available in a GE?

Besides a LOT more voted to remain in the EU
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,690
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
How many options available on the ballot paper for the EU referendum? How many options available in a GE?

Besides a LOT more voted to remain in the EU
Click to expand...

If it’s a choice of stay in the Eu or the Uk I don’t think so
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,691
Grendel said:
more people voted to leave the EU in Scotland then for the SNP
Click to expand...

Does that not suggest that the majority isn’t in fact on board with the idea of independence but are more accepting of left-of-centre/left wing policies? I don’t know an awful lot about Scottish politics but I understand that Labour up there under Blair/Brown were terrible. If someone could elaborate that would help.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,692
Oh dear the national Socialist Sturgeon it seems is trying to take legal action as she’s not invited in the leaders debate for the next PM
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,693
SBAndy said:
Does that not suggest that the majority isn’t in fact on board with the idea of independence but are more accepting of left-of-centre/left wing policies? I don’t know an awful lot about Scottish politics but I understand that Labour up there under Blair/Brown were terrible. If someone could elaborate that would help.
Click to expand...

I think this question is a lot easier to answer then most. And it may not be the one that is universally accepted.

The Tories and Labour were the main parties in Scotland and then came Thatcher who used Scotland as the Poll Tax testing ground etc and all that jazz. The Tories lost their MPs in Scotland and it went Labour and Lib Dems. It would all depend where you were located in the country. The realisation then came that Labour was just as bad as Tories. Coupled with the Lib Dems joining the Conservatives in the coalition Government, the only other party you could vote for was the SNP. The SNP gained power in a landslide and then the last election, the three main parties started to make inroads again on the SNP vote. The Tories doing much better then expected.

What I put this down to is the political cycle of power and people wanting change, and no one party offering what the electorate really wants.

Whilst Scottish Independence may be on the mind of the SNP it is probably not on the mind of all their voters.

As with Scottish Tory and Labour voters who may vote for Scottish Independence. It is a personal choice.

The fun thing about the Scottish Independence vote is the last referendum broadcast by the 'better together' campaign which is coming back to haunt them.

Here's the video with added subtitles.

 
Last edited: Nov 13, 2019

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,694
Astute said:
Look back. It was what you stated as fact. That is why I asked you questions. Now it seems that you agree with me. Nothing cryptic there.
Click to expand...

Fine. If I have misunderstood, or got confused fair enough I apologise.
 
Reactions: Astute

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2019
  • #1,695
So it’s a Blue Peter deal. Made from sticky back plastic and yogurt pots. It’s certainly recycled.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,696
Grendel said:
more people voted to leave the EU in Scotland then for the SNP
Click to expand...
Not unusual when more people voted in the referendum than they do in a GE. And in a GE you get several choices not just in or out.

The Tories will get millions of votes less than leave. Does that mean we should call it off?
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,697
General election: Johnson hopes for last-minute deal with Brexit Party's Farage

This gets better and better!! Common sense hopefully will prevail by the end of the day and the deal between Boris and Farage will be done
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,698
Grendel said:
Classic understanding of negotiation from Rebecca Long-Bailey

“we will take no deal off the table when we re-negotiate with the EU”

“Surely that weakens your position in a negotiation”

“Not at all the last thing the EU want Is a no deal”
Click to expand...

The EU might well say "You can if you want to, but we shall bring it back to the table" further strengthening their position

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,699
See Tusk is trying to stir things up again
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,700
SkyBlueDom26 said:
General election: Johnson hopes for last-minute deal with Brexit Party's Farage

This gets better and better!! Common sense hopefully will prevail by the end of the day and the deal between Boris and Farage will be done
Click to expand...
Have you read the article itself or just the headline?
the deal was turned down by Mr Farage
Click to expand...
This bit made me laugh though
Priti Patel claims Tory analysis of Labour's proposals for open borders - using official figures and the government's own methodology
Click to expand...
so made up then.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,701
It looks like getting the GE out the way before the annual winter A&E crisis didn’t pull off. October was a shit fest by the look of it A&E waiting times hit worst-ever level
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,702
chiefdave said:
Have you read the article itself or just the headline?

This bit made me laugh though

so made up then.
Click to expand...

11th hour deal is what hopefully will happen, talks will be ongoing.. means fuck all that the first deal was turned down
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,703
chiefdave said:
Have you read the article itself or just the headline?

This bit made me laugh though

so made up then.
Click to expand...
This is the same government who’s promised to fast track immigration into the NHS rather than make nursing an attractive occupation for the British people.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,704
skybluetony176 said:
It looks like getting the GE out the way before the annual winter A&E crisis didn’t pull off. October was a shit fest by the look of it A&E waiting times hit worst-ever level
Click to expand...
That's despite them trying to hold it together until after the election by taking what was described as emergency action.

Johnson haveing meetings with Simon Stevens, in charge of NHS England and Hancock, health secretary meeting him every Monday to make sure any crisis is headed off before becoming an election issue.

To be honest I'm not sure it makes much difference. Doesn't seem to matter how much evidence you present these days, people seemingly refuse to change their minds.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,705
Genuine question for all you Corbyn lovers, would Labour joining the remain alliance actually be worse for them??? Surely doing that would lose them votes from leavers... Labour are in a sticky spot in regards on where they stand
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,706
Grendel said:
Oh dear the national Socialist Sturgeon it seems is trying to take legal action as she’s not invited in the leaders debate for the next PM
Click to expand...

Its amazing Grendel how offensive she comes across yet still manages to get away with it
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,707
A&E waiting times the highest since records began.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,708
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Genuine question for all you Corbyn lovers, would Labour joining the remain alliance actually be worse for them??? Surely doing that would lose them votes from leavers... Labour are in a sticky spot in regards on where they stand
Click to expand...

Not a Corbyn lover, but using my Dom Translator I assume that means Labour voters.

Labour aren’t a Remain party. They should maintain the balanced Brexit position they’ve always had, its right even if it does piss off the extremes. They’re a party of government and should govern for the entire country not just half of it like the others.

Politically I doubt it’d make much difference. Just as likely to scare off anti-Corbyn remainers as it is to gain votes from Libs stepping down IMO.

The best result is a fine balance between doing well enough to stop a Tory majority and not doing so well people scared of Corbyn vote Tory to keep him out. It’s not a result I expect but it’s the best Labour or Remain can hope for.
 
Reactions: Ian1779

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,709
shmmeee said:
Not a Corbyn lover, but using my Dom Translator I assume that means Labour voters.

Labour aren’t a Remain party. They should maintain the balanced Brexit position they’ve always had, its right even if it does piss off the extremes. They’re a party of government and should govern for the entire country not just half of it like the others.

Politically I doubt it’d make much difference. Just as likely to scare off anti-Corbyn remainers as it is to gain votes from Libs stepping down IMO.

The best result is a fine balance between doing well enough to stop a Tory majority and not doing so well people scared of Corbyn vote Tory to keep him out. It’s not a result I expect but it’s the best Labour or Remain can hope for.
Click to expand...

Puts them in a sticky spot then don't it as they can't please both sides of the Ref
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,710
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Puts them in a sticky spot then don't it as they can't please both sides of the Ref
Click to expand...

That is exactly the same case for the other parties
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,711
fernandopartridge said:
That is exactly the same case for the other parties
Click to expand...
No it isn't

Conservatives don't have any problems with being a leave party, don't think the 'get brexit done' will put off anyone voting for conservatives

Don't think anybody from the lib dem side wants brexit
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,712
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Don't think anybody from the lib dem side wants brexit
Click to expand...

Except Tory leavers?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,713
SkyBlueDom26 said:
No it isn't

Conservatives don't have any problems with being a leave party, don't think the 'get brexit done' will put off anyone voting for conservatives

Don't think anybody from the lib dem side wants brexit
Click to expand...

Christ. They lost their majority due to their Brexit position.
 
Reactions: Ian1779 and Otis

SkyBlueCharlie9

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,714
skybluetony176 said:
It looks like getting the GE out the way before the annual winter A&E crisis didn’t pull off. October was a shit fest by the look of it A&E waiting times hit worst-ever level
Click to expand...
The last 7-8 years record of the Tory's on NHS laid out in black and white for all to see......abysmal.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 14, 2019
  • #1,715
fernandopartridge said:
Christ. They lost their majority due to their Brexit position.
Click to expand...

Long term they’ve got some real issues. Both the parties do, but a lot of Tory appeal to swing voters is based on competence and they’ve destroyed that reputation the last four years. The Brexit coalition also expects very different things domestically once it’s done. Half seem to have voted for more investment and better public services and half for low tax low regulation. Also a lot of Leave votes came from non voters who as every radical politician finds out can’t be relied on to vote at a GE. Add in the demographic issues (ageing base, home ownership down) and Id be very concerned if I was a Tory long term.

Labours issues are equally bad (reconcile socially conservative voters with liberal metropolitans). Interesting times ahead.
 
Reactions: Astute
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