General Election 2019 thread (9 Viewers)

Philosorapter

Well-Known Member
Did you see how many voted remain in Scotland?

When the Labour Party came up to Scotland by train to put their voice to the Scottish Independence vote they needed to take a short walk from the train station to the place they were all assembling at.

A couple of people in a rickshaw took them on.

Makes for a beautiful few minutes of viewing.

I wonder why Labour lost Glasgow.

 

tommydazzle

Well-Known Member
Obviously not scientific but I'm getting the impression from Leave voters I know that quite a few are not going to bother voting after feeling disenfranchised. This could be a significant factor if the turnout is low. On the other hand, I worked at the polling station for the last two elections and what was very noticeable was the disappointingly small number of younger voters which could be significant if repeated for this G.E.

All makes it hard to call and the polls about as reliable as my observations!
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
What I don't get is that I keep hearing public interviewed on TV blaming Labour and the Lib Dems for blocking Brexit.

They are simply ignoring the fact that a fair number of Tories have also voted against deals.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I also like the theory of experience but the main way they get that experience is by following party lines so they keep getting selected in easy-win seats so when they eventually move up to the Lords they're just a party stooge. So it is still far too party politics and cronies in the upper chamber IMO.

When they do white papers etc they do often bring in experts to work on it (tsars) but the problem is the government can just ignore their advice despite the evidence and knowledge they bring based on their own dogma. Remember the drug tsar who said drugs should be legalised, taxed etc. Very sensible, evidence based, policy recommendation. But that didn't fit in with the 'War on Drugs' mantra so they just tried to discredit him and ignored his proposals.

It is the bit of my plan that I would like to improve - how to get actual expertise in the areas that are being legislated on rather than party politics. Personally I think it should be you can't chair a committee/be Minister/Secretary unless you have expertise in the area it covers but then those being chosen will still be party affiliated and thus at risk of following the party line. Ccan you imagine a company employing someone with no background in finance and economics as their Finance Executive? But we do it all the time with the Chancellor as the job is seen as a 'reward' for loyalty to the PM and get their name in the hat as a potential successor.

Even moving to a grandee/crony list on a PV vote for the Lords would be quite a stretch to get politicians to agree to as it reduces their power. To do it so they are largely removed in favour of actual expertise, despite how sensible that would be, would be way too much for them to agree to from where we are now. It may only be gradual erosion but it may undermine the cliff to lead to a more drastic collapse later.

Oh yeah it’s very much “If I ruled the world” territory. But a man can dream. The lack of knowledge about the most basic stuff from those that lead the country is truly concerning. Worse is the half baked understanding of services like health and education because they’ve been service users at some point. At least with technology they accept they know nothing and let lobbyists write policy.

Worry with independent experts picked by politicians like we have now with advisors is they tend to pick the “expert” they know will tell them what they want. Needs to be a way for genuine expertise to get into the process.

Another pipe dream was making Secretaries of State directly elected and giving voters with some level of expert knowledge (trade association membership or a degree? I dunno) double votes on that post. So teachers votes for education secretary count double as do police officer votes for HS. Completely unworkable in reality (do I get a teacher vote as I hold a PGCE even though I haven’t taught for two and a half years?).

Overall I do still think the root problem isn’t the structures of power though, rather the selection process and withdrawal of politics from most people’s daily lives now unions barely exist. What’s the route for someone in industry to get elected other than being a local party weirdo for ten years?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
What I don't get is that I keep hearing public interviewed on TV blaming Labour and the Lib Dems for blocking Brexit.

They are simply ignoring the fact that a fair number of Tories have also voted against deals.

Propaganda works.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Boris having a go at residents in flood hit areas. It’s not a national emergency apparently, it’s the residents fault for not listening to the emergency services. Nothing to do with pumps not being supplied when requested etc because it’s not a national emergency.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
The pure maths make it virtually impossible for labour as I assume it’s not going to be able to recover its position in Scotland

Conservatives have a chance. They’d have to hold most of the seats out of Scotland (those will go) and make the ground lost in Scotland and more. In effect they have 298 and 13 in Scotland so 285 in reality but the defector sears will go back to them.

They need 320 it’s a big ask
But a potential SNP/Lab coalition is probably just as likely - the Tories will probably lose most of the Scotland seats.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
There’s possibly a few seats where this could happen on a local agreement rather than a national pact between Labour, Greens and the Lib Dem’s.
Exactly - this is why they should both pull out of Brighton Pavillion. Some local agreements in 20 or so ‘key’ seats and then the dynamic changes.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
What I don't get is that I keep hearing public interviewed on TV blaming Labour and the Lib Dems for blocking Brexit.

They are simply ignoring the fact that a fair number of Tories have also voted against deals.
Labour and the Lib Dems have put it across as stop any Brexit deal. The Tories have put it across as accept it. A few Labour went for leave and a few Tories went for remain. It has been mainly following party orders or risk getting at least demoted.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
But a potential SNP/Lab coalition is probably just as likely - the Tories will probably lose most of the Scotland seats.

Which will happen if labour allow a referendum to Scotland regardless of it going against the agreement made last time - so much for the union - also I assume but wound mean they are excluded from a second referendum for Brexit?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Exactly - this is why they should both pull out of Brighton Pavillion. Some local agreements in 20 or so ‘key’ seats and then the dynamic changes.
So you won't complain about where Farage has someone running or doesn't?
 

Philosorapter

Well-Known Member
I normally bet against the favourite and have won a fair bit in recent years.

People always root for the underdog. Also, as we know in sports, go into a competition with a slight disadvantage will make you work harder to achieve your objectives.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Boris having a go at residents in flood hit areas. It’s not a national emergency apparently, it’s the residents fault for not listening to the emergency services. Nothing to do with pumps not being supplied when requested etc because it’s not a national emergency.

Of course it's not a national emergency - it's not in the SE. Make it london and billions would be found to defend them, esp if they were rich peoples homes.

So now it's the residents fault for NOT listening to the emergency services. Wasn't it the residents fault at Grenfell because they DID listen to the emergency services rather than following 'common sense'?

Not sure what the emergency services were going to tell them to change the outcome anyway. The contempt the man shows for anyone he considers below him (which is almost everyone) is staggering. But a bit of bluster, waffle and wild gesticulation with the messy hair and they'll vote for him, so no wonder really. I really do try not to take a personal dislike to individuals to focus on policy but he really does make it so hard not to. Vile individual.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Of course it's not a national emergency - it's not in the SE. Make it london and billions would be found to defend them, esp if they were rich peoples homes.

So now it's the residents fault for NOT listening to the emergency services. Wasn't it the residents fault at Grenfell because they DID listen to the emergency services rather than following 'common sense'?

Not sure what the emergency services were going to tell them to change the outcome anyway. The contempt the man shows for anyone he considers below him (which is almost everyone) is staggering. But a bit of bluster, waffle and wild gesticulation with the messy hair and they'll vote for him, so no wonder really. I really do try not to take a personal dislike to individuals to focus on policy but he really does make it so hard not to. Vile individual.
The real irony seems to be that no one was listening to the local emergency services last week when they said that they needed emergency pumps to deal with the pending emergency.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah it’s very much “If I ruled the world” territory. But a man can dream. The lack of knowledge about the most basic stuff from those that lead the country is truly concerning. Worse is the half baked understanding of services like health and education because they’ve been service users at some point. At least with technology they accept they know nothing and let lobbyists write policy.

Worry with independent experts picked by politicians like we have now with advisors is they tend to pick the “expert” they know will tell them what they want. Needs to be a way for genuine expertise to get into the process.

Another pipe dream was making Secretaries of State directly elected and giving voters with some level of expert knowledge (trade association membership or a degree? I dunno) double votes on that post. So teachers votes for education secretary count double as do police officer votes for HS. Completely unworkable in reality (do I get a teacher vote as I hold a PGCE even though I haven’t taught for two and a half years?).

Overall I do still think the root problem isn’t the structures of power though, rather the selection process and withdrawal of politics from most people’s daily lives now unions barely exist. What’s the route for someone in industry to get elected other than being a local party weirdo for ten years?

Rather than a double vote you have to put your vote into a machine and answer a multiple choice question or two on the issues/manifestos. If you get them wrong your vote is shredded. So those who aren't engaged in the process get less of a say than those that do engage.
 
W

westcountry_skyblue

Guest
I normally bet against the favourite and have won a fair bit in recent years.
I won a fair bit on leave in 2016,13/2 it was 20 mins before the polls shut.
Then as soon as the BBC announced it was gonna be close just after 10pm leave came in to 5/2.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
I won a fair bit on leave in 2016,13/2 it was 20 mins before the polls shut.
Then as soon as the BBC announced it was gonna be close just after 10pm leave came in to 5/2.
I won a fair bit too, but mine simply on a price I felt was wrong. Opinion polling pointed towards remain but nobody knew the turnout, the real expectation or had any historical information to base on yet in a 2 horse race one was trading consistently at 9/2. I backed more in hope than any expectation having felt it was a coin toss and simply lumping on the value.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Meanwhile, another outstanding candidate chosen.


Almost like they keep trying to give eachother a sporting chance. So many mistakes on every side and we've only just reached final candidate selection. Undoubtedly there will be more dirt dug up over the coming weeks but it's not a very clever way to start.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
So you won't complain about where Farage has someone running or doesn't?

Not really... I merely think that the Brexit party will not have the same impact as people make out. I think they’ve got their strategy a bit skewiff.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Boris having a go at residents in flood hit areas. It’s not a national emergency apparently, it’s the residents fault for not listening to the emergency services. Nothing to do with pumps not being supplied when requested etc because it’s not a national emergency.
Don’t listen then listen. I do wish they’d make up their minds about us common trash
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Almost like they keep trying to give eachother a sporting chance. So many mistakes on every side and we've only just reached final candidate selection. Undoubtedly there will be more dirt dug up over the coming weeks but it's not a very clever way to start.
When I was a kid the best MP's made it to the top. If it is still the same we are in trouble.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Not really... I merely think that the Brexit party will not have the same impact as people make out. I think they’ve got their strategy a bit skewiff.
You mean they should go for the close seats and take votes away from the Tories?

There is a difference between what you want and what they want.
 

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