General Election 2019 thread (4 Viewers)

chiefdave · Dec 26, 2019

The coventrian said:
You cant honestly tell me though that those coming in doing the unskilled jobs arent stopping people here getting employment?
If you think they arent then your a bigger idiot than I thought you were.

One of my clients at work is hugely reliant on unskilled Eastern Europeans. They have a large turnover of staff, most people leave within 6 to 12 months. Its minimum wage work with zero hours contracts. Their sites are all out in the middle of nowhere and not served by public transport so the positions are live in, for which a rental charge is deducted from your wages.

Since the referendum vote they have had increasing issues recruiting and have not been fully staffed. As their entire HR team must be these bigger idiots you refer to maybe you could explain why, with numerous vacancies, they don't get applications from unemployed British people? Sure they will be happy to have your input. It will save them the trouble of brining people in from South East Asia which is currently their plan to resolve the issue.

Astute · Dec 26, 2019

chiefdave said:
One of my clients at work is hugely reliant on unskilled Eastern Europeans. They have a large turnover of staff, most people leave within 6 to 12 months. Its minimum wage work with zero hours contracts. Their sites are all out in the middle of nowhere and not served by public transport so the positions are live in, for which a rental charge is deducted from your wages.

Since the referendum vote they have had increasing issues recruiting and have not been fully staffed. As their entire HR team must be these bigger idiots you refer to maybe you could explain why, with numerous vacancies, they don't get applications from unemployed British people? Sure they will be happy to have your input. It will save them the trouble of brining people in from South East Asia which is currently their plan to resolve the issue.

You can't bring people in as easy as that. Not even skilled workers with a job to come to can get in easily.

chiefdave · Dec 26, 2019

Astute said:
You can't bring people in as easy as that. Not even skilled workers with a job to come to can get in easily.

Given that a) they're spending money on recruitment in South East Asia and b) the owner of the company has regular meetings with the PM I suspect they are confident there's not going to be an issue.

The alternative option is a company who are a nightmare to get to agree to fund essential expenditure have suddenly decided to blow a load of money on something guaranteed to fail.

Astute · Dec 27, 2019

chiefdave said:
Given that a) they're spending money on recruitment in South East Asia and b) the owner of the company has regular meetings with the PM I suspect they are confident there's not going to be an issue.

The alternative option is a company who are a nightmare to get to agree to fund essential expenditure have suddenly decided to blow a load of money on something guaranteed to fail.

It takes at least a year to sort things out for skilled workers. Unskilled will have a harder time.

Paying a decent wage would be cheaper.

chiefdave · Dec 27, 2019

Astute said:
It takes at least a year to sort things out for skilled workers. Unskilled will have a harder time.

Paying a decent wage would be cheaper.

Well that's their problem not mine. I'm sure they've thought it through.

But that wasn't really what I was getting at, was responding to the claim that stopping unskilled people coming here from the EU to work would mean more jobs for the British. How is that going to work if they aren't interested in, and don't apply for, the jobs?

Astute · Dec 27, 2019

chiefdave said:
Well that's their problem not mine. I'm sure they've thought it through.

But that wasn't really what I was getting at, was responding to the claim that stopping unskilled people coming here from the EU to work would mean more jobs for the British. How is that going to work if they aren't interested in, and don't apply for, the jobs?

It does go with what you have said.

You have announced that you know someone who would prefer to import people to work cheaply than pay a living wage. And you don't seem to have a problem with it in the slightest.

Later you will talk about the minimum wage not being high enough as the minimum wage isn't enough to live on.

So what is it?

1,600 skilled workers denied UK visas

The coventrian · Dec 27, 2019

Sky Blue Pete said:
What a wanker

No just honest.
We live in a democracy where we're allowed different views. You don't agree with mine so as usual resort to childish remark. A classic trait of the left.
People like you are the minority. You shout the loudest though. People like you have made a lot of people scared to voice their opinions as you scream racist. I wont be bullied and backed into a corner by you rabid weirdo do gooder types.

The coventrian · Dec 27, 2019

Ian1779 said:
I’m happy to be a leftie loser... you can carry on as the emboldened and intolerant embarrassment that you are.

How many of the 49 scroungers that our lifeguards in dover have picked up will you be offering a bed? How much of your wages do you donate to charity each month? I know how much. Zero.
Your just another champagne socialist.

Astute · Dec 27, 2019

The coventrian said:
No just honest.
We live in a democracy where we're allowed different views. You don't agree with mine so as usual resort to childish remark. A classic trait of the left.
People like you are the minority. You shout the loudest though. People like you have made a lot of people scared to voice their opinions as you scream racist. I wont be bullied and backed into a corner by you rabid weirdo do gooder types.

Having a different view doesn't make someone correct and someone else wrong.

You go on about exploitation. This is a right wing thing. The rich exploit the poor. Left wing is about countering the exploitation. But both have extremes that don't help.

Astute · Dec 27, 2019

The coventrian said:
How many of the 49 scroungers that our lifeguards in dover have picked up will you be offering a bed? How much of your wages do you donate to charity each month? I know how much. Zero.
Your just another champagne socialist.

Yeah. Should have let them die. Then people like yourself who originated from immigrants can celebrate the deaths of immigrants.

Makes sense.......

clint van damme · Dec 27, 2019

The coventrian said:
No just honest.
We live in a democracy where we're allowed different views. You don't agree with mine so as usual resort to childish remark. A classic trait of the left.
People like you are the minority. You shout the loudest though. People like you have made a lot of people scared to voice their opinions as you scream racist. I wont be bullied and backed into a corner by you rabid weirdo do gooder types.

The first person to start throwing I sluts yesterday was you when you referred to Mr as a fool and a clown because I disagreed with you.
So it's not a typical trait of the left is it??!!

Sick Boy · Dec 27, 2019

clint van damme said:
The first person to start throwing I sluts yesterday was you when you referred to Mr as a fool and a clown because I disagreed with you.
So it's not a typical trait of the left is it??!!

Was this a private conversation you were having?

stupot07 · Dec 27, 2019

The coventrian said:
No just honest.
We live in a democracy where we're allowed different views. You don't agree with mine so as usual resort to childish remark. A classic trait of the left.
People like you are the minority. You shout the loudest though. People like you have made a lot of people scared to voice their opinions as you scream racist. I wont be bullied and backed into a corner by you rabid weirdo do gooder types.

Saying that we should have killed 49 foreigners to stop them coming in to our country is pretty racist. That's straight out of the Tommy Robinson playbook.

I doubt very much the majority would share that view at all. Most people have at least an ounce of compassion for fellow humans.

Nothing leftie about that opinion.

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Ian1779 · Dec 27, 2019

The coventrian said:
How many of the 49 scroungers that our lifeguards in dover have picked up will you be offering a bed? How much of your wages do you donate to charity each month? I know how much. Zero.
Your just another champagne socialist.

I will contribute the same amount as you, and it will impact my life in the same way it does for you.

Grendel · Dec 27, 2019

chiefdave said:
Given that a) they're spending money on recruitment in South East Asia and b) the owner of the company has regular meetings with the PM I suspect they are confident there's not going to be an issue.

The alternative option is a company who are a nightmare to get to agree to fund essential expenditure have suddenly decided to blow a load of money on something guaranteed to fail.

I suspect they are recruiting temporary workers on a temporary visa arrangement which is a bit naughty really

It’s odd for a company to do that - they pay pretty dire wages I’d imagine as most companies would recruit such staff via uk based contract agencies

Grendel · Dec 27, 2019

Astute said:
You can't bring people in as easy as that. Not even skilled workers with a job to come to can get in easily.

The visa process for external skilled workers through the exceptional talent process is pretty straightforward

The coventrian · Dec 27, 2019

Astute said:
Yeah. Should have let them die. Then people like yourself who originated from immigrants can celebrate the deaths of immigrants.

Makes sense.......

Totally different.
My mother's family came over from Ireland to work. They never scrounged and they never entered the country illegally. Totally different circumstances.

The coventrian · Dec 27, 2019

Ian1779 said:
I will contribute the same amount as you, and it will impact my life in the same way it does for you.

But I've been honest and said I don't give a Toss about them. Your the do gooder liberal type who thinks we should bend over backwards for them so I'll ask again what do you do extra to help these people? Do you donate some of your wages to charity etc? No,what you do is fuck all but preach to the rest of us that we should care.

The coventrian · Dec 27, 2019

stupot07 said:
Saying that we should have killed 49 foreigners to stop them coming in to our country is pretty racist. That's straight out of the Tommy Robinson playbook.

I doubt very much the majority would share that view at all. Most people have at least an ounce of compassion for fellow humans.

Nothing leftie about that opinion.

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It was an off the cuff comment that as usual people like you go hysterical over.
They should be put on the first plane back to where they came from.
Answer me this,those people came from Iraq/Afghanistan. Why do they travel through countless countries to get to ours? Its because we're a soft touch cos of people like you.

chiefdave · Dec 27, 2019

The coventrian said:
Answer me this,those people came from Iraq/Afghanistan. Why do they travel through countless countries to get to ours? Its because we're a soft touch cos of people like you.

Why do migrants and asylum seekers want to come to the UK?

stupot07 · Dec 27, 2019

The coventrian said:
It was an off the cuff comment that as usual people like you go hysterical over.
They should be put on the first plane back to where they came from.
Answer me this,those people came from Iraq/Afghanistan. Why do they travel through countless countries to get to ours? Its because we're a soft touch cos of people like you.

Hahaha our country is a soft touch cos of people like me??? Lol

Mate, politicians make laws, politicians decide the level of funding to deliver service (I.e. border forces, etc.) and enforce law. The conservatives have had nearly a decade to implement immigration legislation for non EU citizens and have done fuck all.

Asylum seekers only make up 0.6% of our population and dont have recourse to public funding.

Perhaps the Iraqi's and Afghans wouldn't be coming try and seek asylum had we not bombed the shit of out of them trying to 'free' them with our Western ways.

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chiefdave · Dec 27, 2019

The coventrian said:
Totally different.
My mother's family came over from Ireland to work. They never scrounged and they never entered the country illegally. Totally different circumstances.

Just checking, you do realise asylum seekers aren't illegal immigrants don't you?

chiefdave · Dec 27, 2019

Astute said:
You have announced that you know someone who would prefer to import people to work cheaply than pay a living wage. And you don't seem to have a problem with it in the slightest.

Later you will talk about the minimum wage not being high enough as the minimum wage isn't enough to live on.

So what is it?

1,600 skilled workers denied UK visas

How have you jumped to the conclusion I don't have a problem with it? I've merely pointed out that suggesting closing the door to non-skilled EU migrants will mean non-skilled British workers fill the available vacancies is deeply flawed.

Grendel said:
I suspect they are recruiting temporary workers on a temporary visa arrangement which is a bit naughty really

It’s odd for a company to do that - they pay pretty dire wages I’d imagine as most companies would recruit such staff via uk based contract agencies

The pay is minimum wage and then you add in to the mix shocking bad living conditions and very poor work conditions.

They earn minimum wage but are on zero hour contracts. As the sites are in the middle of nowhere they all live onsite in company provided accommodation which frankly isn't fit for human habitation. For that privilege they get money deducted from their wages. Their hours are speed throughout the day as the company requires, for example you could have a day working 6-8, 12-13, 16-18 and 21-23; a seven hour day spread over 17 hours. You can have your hours cancelled at a moments notice or be called in at moments notice to suit the company.

Meanwhile the three family members who run the company take out tens of millions a year. The business could easily afford to offer better pay and improve conditions but choose not to.

Astute · Dec 27, 2019

Grendel said:
The visa process for external skilled workers through the exceptional talent process is pretty straightforward

But there are limits on the amount allowed to come here. So yes pretty simple. That is as long as the limit isn't reached. But as we have a big skills shortage the limit gets reached.

Astute · Dec 27, 2019

The coventrian said:
Totally different.
My mother's family came over from Ireland to work. They never scrounged and they never entered the country illegally. Totally different circumstances.

So they have come to scrounge as you put it? How do you know that?

Most come here to work. We are one of the richest nations in the world. Our minimum wage is a fortune for most. What they don't realise is so is the cost of living.

skybluetony176 · Dec 27, 2019

The coventrian said:
Totally different.
My mother's family came over from Ireland to work. They never scrounged and they never entered the country illegally. Totally different circumstances.

Sounds like the exact same circumstances as the vast majority of migrants living and working in the U.K..

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 27, 2019

The coventrian said:
Totally different.
My mother's family came over from Ireland to work. They never scrounged and they never entered the country illegally. Totally different circumstances.

And yet the Irish of the time and before faced similar discrimination and usually had to take the crap work others didn't want. No Irish need apply...but hey at least it's revealed that I have deeper roots in Coventry than you. Move over Paddy..

Grendel · Dec 27, 2019

Astute said:
But there are limits on the amount allowed to come here. So yes pretty simple. That is as long as the limit isn't reached. But as we have a big skills shortage the limit gets reached.

Never been an issue whenever I’ve done it. I wouldn’t always believe headlines if I were you

shmmeee · Dec 27, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
So using your anecdotal type argument, austerity has actually had quite a positive impact upon the non-homeless population's death rate.

There are also anecdotal reports that homeless centres are unpleasant with drug & alcohol-fuelled crime. And that many involve spending the night with around 20 other homeless people, so homeless people choose not to use them (some might say anecdotally that they choose to huddle together in shop doorways instead where the threat of having their wine or drugs stolen from them is lower?)

What solution works? Who knows unless it is tried?

Maybe you & fellow whino's (see what I did there? ;-) ) ought to pop into town tonight & rescue a couple of them & give them food, shower & bed for a few days?

Maybe all those with more than assets above £1m should have 5% taken away to conduct a proper investigation as to who is homeless & why, & what their idea of a solution would look like?

Maybe 2nd homes should be bought up by the state? Maybe we should shrug our shoulders & say 'you got yourself into this mess - you get yourself out of it'?

I really have no idea of a palatable solution, but to simply point the finger (like on crime, education & NHS) at the current Tory government is plainly unfair. Had proper decisive possibly even draconian punishment been introduced 50yrs ago, we wouldn't have a drug problem in the country...easy to say isn't it?

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This is what pisses me off about the right. Totally lack of intellectual curiosity. We can solve homelessness, we know because the last Labour government did it. Then when it rises under Tory watch it’s all “oh guess we’ll never know how this terrible thing happens”. So intellectually dishonest.

Some of us do have mates who have been homeless and have fed, clothed and homed them so maybe fuck off with your ridiculous internet point scoring like it makes you some kind of hard man to look down on those less fortunate than you.

And draconian sentencing works does it? I guess that’s why there’s no drug problems in the states. Or Thailand. Or maybe that’s yet more lazy thinking bollocks. “I reckon” can fuck right off as a valid political opinion when we have stacks of evidence that you reckon wrong.

skybluetony176 · Dec 27, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
And yet the Irish of the time and before faced similar discrimination and usually had to take the crap work others didn't want. No Irish need apply...

My family got it. Although we’re British (Northern Ireland) we got the same shit. As Lenny Henry jokes, no blacks, no Irish, no dogs. So if you were a Black Irish wolfhound you stood no chance

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 27, 2019

Imagine escaping the bullets and torture, abandoning your home to risk life and limb on a journey of thousands of miles, constantly in fear of death while you starved and dehydrated...

To meet the coventrian on your arrival.

chiefdave · Dec 27, 2019

Surprised Wasps haven't sent someone to Dover to give out free tickets.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 27, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
My family got it. Although we’re British (Northern Ireland) we got the same shit. As Lenny Henry jokes, no blacks, no Irish, no dogs. So if you were a Black Irish wolfhound you stood no chance

Oh Ireland is a very funny place sir...

Astute · Dec 27, 2019

Grendel said:
Never been an issue whenever I’ve done it. I wouldn’t always believe headlines if I were you

Of course it wasn't a problem for you.

So the whole thing I put up was false? Yeah OK. I will just remind you that headlines are false next time you use one. And it wasn't a headline I gave you. It was official numbers.

Grendel · Dec 27, 2019

Astute said:
Of course it wasn't a problem for you.

So the whole thing I put up was false? Yeah OK. I will just remind you that headlines are false next time you use one. And it wasn't a headline I gave you. It was official numbers.

Out of interest how many applications have you submitted. I’ve been involved in 4 exceptional talent visas - all were processed with little trouble.

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