tisza
Well-Known Member
Not sure it's so simple for Labour just to purge so-called extreme elements. Momentum is very well organised and entrenched within the Labour machinery. Through this they have a larger % of PLP than they did before.
Not sure it's so simple for Labour just to purge so-called extreme elements. Momentum is very well organised and entrenched within the Labour machinery. Through this they have a larger % of PLP than they did before.It’s not so long ago people were saying the Tories would split and that would be the end of them. But a minor purge in parliament appears to have made them stronger (for now)
Kinnocks purge of the more extreme labour views followed by Smith and Blair’s reforms gave labour over a decade of success.
There will be change, there will be some breakaways but I wouldn’t write the Labour Party off just yet. They will reform...try and build/extend party at local elections...eat in to Johnson’s majority in 2024 and then possibly win in 10yrs time.
Assuming Scotland stays in uk. If not then tories in for a very long time...
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Don't think either side would want a referendum before the Brexit process is clearer.Get the right conditions, put it to a vote, win the vote, quash any noise going forward.
You could argue then that if you're right, now is the time to have that vote, put it completely to bed, and stop it coming up like some hideous wart every so often.
Any chance now that Labour could advocate PR?
I have always been for it and obviously many of the smaller parties are too. If they don't think they can get in, not for many years, might they just start to embrace that somewhat?
Losing seats in Scotland in the last 2 elections was the beginning of the end of them. They were always guaranteed a virtual house up there at one time.They used to dominate Scotland now they are a London centric party
doubtful. Little chance of getting current manifesto through a PR-elected Parliament.Any chance now that Labour could advocate PR?
I have always been for it and obviously many of the smaller parties are too. If they don't think they can get in, not for many years, might they just start to embrace that somewhat?
That man is just never going to disappear.That’s a Nigel Farage project now
I am sick to death of the two party system. And for what it's worth, I don't consider myself a Labour supporter. I would say in the last 10 years I hae voted Green, Lib Dem and Labour and even Independent.
I am not a true Labourite at all.
I'm making my final contribution to this thread, and I think it's the first thing I've said that might be consensual:
James O'Brien is an utter wanker
I believe in bringing people up tot he same level not bringing the richest down. That doesn't make sense to me. The solution is to make other people's lives worse, to make someone else's better how is that equal?
I've voted in a similar way and that just highlights the problem with the 2 party FPTP system. On the right you only really have the Conservatives, well until UKIP came along and we all know the mess we got into when Cameron panicked about them, the other side is so fragmented and even then you've got in-party fighting.I am sick to death of the two party system. And for what it's worth, I don't consider myself a Labour supporter. I would say in the last 10 years I hae voted Green, Lib Dem and Labour and even Independent.
But going with too many parties will end with parliament being gridlocked again. Today's result is as much about the stagnant parliament (with labour labour blocking it up) as it is Brexit and Labour's spending plans.I've voted in a similar way and that just highlights the problem with the 2 party FPTP system. On the right you only really have the Conservatives, well until UKIP came along and we all know the mess we got into when Cameron panicked about them, the other side is so fragmented and even then you've got in-party fighting.
My first post in this thread.
What a disappointment this result is. I do not like Corbyn, but I don't know how people can vote for this lying, deceitful, and genuinely unpleasant Tory government.
I have voted Tory in the past, so it's not like I'm totally anti-Tory. But this particular government are scummy people.
Personally I am probably financially better off under Tory, but I would happily have paid a few hundred quid extra tax in a year to help the NHS and help those worse off than me.
The working class people in working class towns that voted Tory are incredibly stupid and/or brainwashed. The very definition of turkeys voting for Christmas. They are the ones that will suffer the most under this Tory government. I do not wish harm on anyone, but those people who are working in industry and manufacturing in these industrial towns and voted Tory will suffer the consequences of their vote and they deserve it, stuff 'em.
The working class people in working class towns that voted Tory are incredibly stupid and/or brainwashed. The very definition of turkeys voting for Christmas. They are the ones that will suffer the most under this Tory government. I do not wish harm on anyone, but those people who are working in industry and manufacturing in these industrial towns and voted Tory will suffer the consequences of their vote and they deserve it, stuff 'em.
Yep, those thick working class northerners will get what’s coming to them ! (Can’t find a rolleyes emoji)
That PVA, has been the attitude of labour hierarchy and southern, more liberal, base, which is exactly why those traditional labour supporters have voted against the party they love/loved in their droves, many for the first time in their lives !
Too many people only living in their own echo chambers !
I actually feel a bit sorry for Corbyn today, not a fan at all and he’s got what was coming (In actual fact I think he’s as, if not more, deceitful than Johnson with a far more iffy/almost dangerous past) but nearly every labour commentator/MP is pointing the finger solely at him ! Well, if he was that much of a liability 1) why would you not do something about it before now ? 2) how could you vote/campaign for a man who is that much of a liability to run our country ?!
Congratulations. Exactly the same attitude as Remainers took to Brexiteers and then you act surprised when the people you look down bite back.
When their Leave vote wasn't respected they followed it up with a 2nd vote to re-emphasis their wishes.
So for your first post well done on it being one of the most insulting on this thread.
It’s simple, Corbyn was being backed by the anarchists of momentum.Yep, those thick working class northerners will get what’s coming to them ! (Can’t find a rolleyes emoji)
That PVA, has been the attitude of labour hierarchy and southern, more liberal, base, which is exactly why those traditional labour supporters have voted against the party they love/loved in their droves, many for the first time in their lives !
Too many people only living in their own echo chambers !
I actually feel a bit sorry for Corbyn today, not a fan at all and he’s got what was coming (In actual fact I think he’s as, if not more, deceitful than Johnson with a far more iffy/almost dangerous past) but nearly every labour commentator/MP is pointing the finger solely at him ! Well, if he was that much of a liability 1) why would you not do something about it before now ? 2) how could you vote/campaign for a man who is that much of a liability to run our country ?!
fair enough. Good to see brainwashing & stupidity is only a one-way street.I don't care if it's insulting. These people are thick. They are voting for their own demise while Boris/Farage/Rees-Mogg etc get richer and they cannot see it.
They had the chance to get some help from another party, but after 9 years of being kicked while they are down they have decided they fancy a bit more of that. Good luck to them, they deserve it.
Some truly are 'leave means leave' without any thought of any consequence. I have spoken to people with that exact attitude.No, those people voted Tory because of their obsession with Brexit. To some people leaving the EU has become an obsession, they have been dripfed lies and myths for years about how the reason everything is crap in their town is because of foreigners and the EU.
They needed to get their precious Brexit, and they way to get that was to vote Tory. That is why those towns have turned blue for the first time in years, if not ever.
And when we get No Deal or Boris' Deal many of them will lose their jobs. Their towns will become more run down, and worse places to live. But of course they don't see that now, they just needed their precious Brexit.
Brexit is a pretty drastic game changer however.Don't think either side would want a referendum before the Brexit process is clearer.
SNP have same level of support as at the last referendum when they said it was a once in a generational thing.
Some truly are 'leave means leave' without any thought of any consequence. I have spoken to people with that exact attitude.
Staggering fucking arrogance.No, those people voted Tory because of their obsession with Brexit. To some people leaving the EU has become an obsession, they have been dripfed lies and myths for years about how the reason everything is crap in their town is because of foreigners and the EU.
They needed to get their precious Brexit, and they way to get that was to vote Tory. That is why those towns have turned blue for the first time in years, if not ever.
And when we get No Deal or Boris' Deal many of them will lose their jobs. Their towns will become more run down, and worse places to live. But of course they don't see that now, they just needed their precious Brexit.
Some truly are 'leave means leave' without any thought of any consequence. I have spoken to people with that exact attitude.
It's the 3rd time it's been affirmed and there was a will to force the initial vote in 2016 which is why Cameron pledged it in the 2015 manifesto. If the result had been accepted at the point of the decision instead of belittling leave voters, telling them they were lied to, they didn't know what they were voting for, it was only advisory etc etc then last night simply wouldn't have happened. In fact there would be possibly a campaign already under way looking at re-entry by now with a view to a vote in a couple of years, so yes in short people do want their Brexit at almost any cost.No, those people voted Tory because of their obsession with Brexit. To some people leaving the EU has become an obsession, they have been dripfed lies and myths for years about how the reason everything is crap in their town is because of foreigners and the EU.
They needed to get their precious Brexit, and they way to get that was to vote Tory. That is why those towns have turned blue for the first time in years, if not ever.
And when we get No Deal or Boris' Deal many of them will lose their jobs. Their towns will become more run down, and worse places to live. But of course they don't see that now, they just needed their precious Brexit.
Exactly.
As I say, these people have been utterly brainwashed into believing that everything is the fault of the EU and foreigners.
They either don't care or aren't aware that every economic forecasts predicts the country will be worse off after Brexit. They don't care that the government's OWN analysis says the poorest towns will be 17% worse off in terms of GDP after Brexit.
Leave means leave and that's it for most of them.
Well, I do think he makes at least some sense, so I'm sticking with PVA.Every business will be signing with relief - oddly those same businesses that employed these thick idiots
Well, I do think he makes at least some sense, so I'm sticking with PVA.
I think that may have just whooshed.Who does? You do realise business modelling for a labour government was far worse than Brexit and that even with Brexit the economic models employed by remain agencies predict growth over the next decade?
The economic forecasts don’t say that - it’s you who have been brainwashed you arrogant bigoted twat
Ironically the pro brexit vote (Tory and Brexit) was only 45.6%
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Likewise no Tory voter wanted Remain? LolNo labour voter wanted Brexit? Lol
Don't they? Let's see some (credible) forecasts that say Brexit is going to be a resounding success.
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