General Election 2019 thread (13 Viewers)

[tisza]

It’s not so long ago people were saying the Tories would split and that would be the end of them. But a minor purge in parliament appears to have made them stronger (for now)
Kinnocks purge of the more extreme labour views followed by Smith and Blair’s reforms gave labour over a decade of success.

There will be change, there will be some breakaways but I wouldn’t write the Labour Party off just yet. They will reform...try and build/extend party at local elections...eat in to Johnson’s majority in 2024 and then possibly win in 10yrs time.

Assuming Scotland stays in uk. If not then tories in for a very long time...


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Not sure it's so simple for Labour just to purge so-called extreme elements. Momentum is very well organised and entrenched within the Labour machinery. Through this they have a larger % of PLP than they did before.

 

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[Grendel]

The other issue labour has is it’s voting system and th me fact it’s members are generally left wing extremists

So even if an acceptable face such as Starmer made it they’d be up against Long-Bailey or even Rayner who will just be unelectable

 

[tisza]

Get the right conditions, put it to a vote, win the vote, quash any noise going forward.

You could argue then that if you're right, now is the time to have that vote, put it completely to bed, and stop it coming up like some hideous wart every so often.

Don't think either side would want a referendum before the Brexit process is clearer.
SNP have same level of support as at the last referendum when they said it was a once in a generational thing.

 

[Grendel]

Any chance now that Labour could advocate PR?

I have always been for it and obviously many of the smaller parties are too. If they don't think they can get in, not for many years, might they just start to embrace that somewhat?

That’s a Nigel Farage project now

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

They used to dominate Scotland now they are a London centric party

Losing seats in Scotland in the last 2 elections was the beginning of the end of them. They were always guaranteed a virtual house up there at one time.

 

[tisza]

Any chance now that Labour could advocate PR?

I have always been for it and obviously many of the smaller parties are too. If they don't think they can get in, not for many years, might they just start to embrace that somewhat?

doubtful. Little chance of getting current manifesto through a PR-elected Parliament.
Even when they were getting hammered by Thatcher & co they didn't fancy PR.
Still a bad taste for many from the Lib Dem/Tory coalition and one thing PR tends to produce is coalition govts.

 

[lifeskyblue]

Ah well we can all look forward to next years;

Strictly...with Corbyn
I’m a Celebrity...with Swinson
Dancing on Ice...with Soubry
Celebrity Hunted...with Chuka and Skinner paired together



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[tisza]

That’s a Nigel Farage project now

That man is just never going to disappear.

 

[skybluegod]

I am sick to death of the two party system. And for what it's worth, I don't consider myself a Labour supporter. I would say in the last 10 years I hae voted Green, Lib Dem and Labour and even Independent.

I am not a true Labourite at all.

Fair enough, i may have misread into what you were saying as the posts i have seen you make on this thread have been labour supporting although admittedly i have not kept up to date with the whole thread!

 

[CCFCSteve]

I'm making my final contribution to this thread, and I think it's the first thing I've said that might be consensual:

James O'Brien is an utter wanker

A clever (but very smug) one

Whats he said now Fernando ? (I can imagine...people like being lied to etc etc)

ps yet I still have some weird addiction to listening to him !

 

[clint van damme]

I believe in bringing people up tot he same level not bringing the richest down. That doesn't make sense to me. The solution is to make other people's lives worse, to make someone else's better how is that equal?

Social mobility in this country has stagnated according to the Social mobility commission and wealth distribution is 7th worse in the developed nations all on the tories watch so I'm not sure that argument stacks up.

I see your point on Brexit but if Corbyn had came out strongly on favour of it what do you think would have happened?
How would the likes of Jess Phillips reacted, or perhaps more importantly her constituents?

 

[chiefdave]

I am sick to death of the two party system. And for what it's worth, I don't consider myself a Labour supporter. I would say in the last 10 years I hae voted Green, Lib Dem and Labour and even Independent.

I've voted in a similar way and that just highlights the problem with the 2 party FPTP system. On the right you only really have the Conservatives, well until UKIP came along and we all know the mess we got into when Cameron panicked about them, the other side is so fragmented and even then you've got in-party fighting.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

I've voted in a similar way and that just highlights the problem with the 2 party FPTP system. On the right you only really have the Conservatives, well until UKIP came along and we all know the mess we got into when Cameron panicked about them, the other side is so fragmented and even then you've got in-party fighting.

But going with too many parties will end with parliament being gridlocked again. Today's result is as much about the stagnant parliament (with labour labour blocking it up) as it is Brexit and Labour's spending plans.

 

[CCFCSteve]

My first post in this thread.

What a disappointment this result is. I do not like Corbyn, but I don't know how people can vote for this lying, deceitful, and genuinely unpleasant Tory government.

I have voted Tory in the past, so it's not like I'm totally anti-Tory. But this particular government are scummy people.

Personally I am probably financially better off under Tory, but I would happily have paid a few hundred quid extra tax in a year to help the NHS and help those worse off than me.

The working class people in working class towns that voted Tory are incredibly stupid and/or brainwashed. The very definition of turkeys voting for Christmas. They are the ones that will suffer the most under this Tory government. I do not wish harm on anyone, but those people who are working in industry and manufacturing in these industrial towns and voted Tory will suffer the consequences of their vote and they deserve it, stuff 'em.

Yep, those thick working class northerners will get what’s coming to them ! (Can’t find a rolleyes emoji)

That PVA, has been the attitude of labour hierarchy and southern, more liberal, base, which is exactly why those traditional labour supporters have voted against the party they love/loved in their droves, many for the first time in their lives !

Too many people only living in their own echo chambers !

I actually feel a bit sorry for Corbyn today, not a fan at all and he’s got what was coming (In actual fact I think he’s as, if not more, deceitful than Johnson with a far more iffy/almost dangerous past) but nearly every labour commentator/MP is pointing the finger solely at him ! Well, if he was that much of a liability 1) why would you not do something about it before now ? 2) how could you vote/campaign for a man who is that much of a liability to run our country ?!

 

[tisza]

The working class people in working class towns that voted Tory are incredibly stupid and/or brainwashed. The very definition of turkeys voting for Christmas. They are the ones that will suffer the most under this Tory government. I do not wish harm on anyone, but those people who are working in industry and manufacturing in these industrial towns and voted Tory will suffer the consequences of their vote and they deserve it, stuff 'em.

Congratulations. Exactly the same attitude as Remainers took to Brexiteers and then you act surprised when the people you look down on bite back.
When their Leave vote wasn't respected they followed it up with a 2nd vote to re-emphasis their wishes.
So for your first post well done on it being one of the most insulting on this thread.

 

[PVA]

Yep, those thick working class northerners will get what’s coming to them ! (Can’t find a rolleyes emoji)

That PVA, has been the attitude of labour hierarchy and southern, more liberal, base, which is exactly why those traditional labour supporters have voted against the party they love/loved in their droves, many for the first time in their lives !

Too many people only living in their own echo chambers !

I actually feel a bit sorry for Corbyn today, not a fan at all and he’s got what was coming (In actual fact I think he’s as, if not more, deceitful than Johnson with a far more iffy/almost dangerous past) but nearly every labour commentator/MP is pointing the finger solely at him ! Well, if he was that much of a liability 1) why would you not do something about it before now ? 2) how could you vote/campaign for a man who is that much of a liability to run our country ?!

No, those people voted Tory because of their obsession with Brexit. To some people leaving the EU has become an obsession, they have been dripfed lies and myths for years about how the reason everything is crap in their town is because of foreigners and the EU.

They needed to get their precious Brexit, and they way to get that was to vote Tory. That is why those towns have turned blue for the first time in years, if not ever.

And when we get No Deal or Boris' Deal many of them will lose their jobs. Their towns will become more run down, and worse places to live. But of course they don't see that now, they just needed their precious Brexit.

 

[PVA]

Congratulations. Exactly the same attitude as Remainers took to Brexiteers and then you act surprised when the people you look down bite back.
When their Leave vote wasn't respected they followed it up with a 2nd vote to re-emphasis their wishes.
So for your first post well done on it being one of the most insulting on this thread.

I don't care if it's insulting. These people are thick. They are voting for their own demise while Boris/Farage/Rees-Mogg etc get richer and they cannot see it.

They had the chance to get some help from another party, but after 9 years of being kicked while they are down they have decided they fancy a bit more of that. Good luck to them, they deserve it.

 

[fatso]

Yep, those thick working class northerners will get what’s coming to them ! (Can’t find a rolleyes emoji)

That PVA, has been the attitude of labour hierarchy and southern, more liberal, base, which is exactly why those traditional labour supporters have voted against the party they love/loved in their droves, many for the first time in their lives !

Too many people only living in their own echo chambers !

I actually feel a bit sorry for Corbyn today, not a fan at all and he’s got what was coming (In actual fact I think he’s as, if not more, deceitful than Johnson with a far more iffy/almost dangerous past) but nearly every labour commentator/MP is pointing the finger solely at him ! Well, if he was that much of a liability 1) why would you not do something about it before now ? 2) how could you vote/campaign for a man who is that much of a liability to run our country ?!

It’s simple, Corbyn was being backed by the anarchists of momentum.
Most right minded labour mp’s wanted him out, but we’re being threatened by momentum and the unions.
Last nights result was always on the cards, (I’d called it on this very forum)
But it was also vital for the very future of the Labour Party, The party now has a real chance to purge itself of the “looney left” and the agitators of momentum /militant tendency.
In order to go forward, Labour must now choose the right leader, and re invent itself as the party for a progressive future.

 

[tisza]

I don't care if it's insulting. These people are thick. They are voting for their own demise while Boris/Farage/Rees-Mogg etc get richer and they cannot see it.

They had the chance to get some help from another party, but after 9 years of being kicked while they are down they have decided they fancy a bit more of that. Good luck to them, they deserve it.

fair enough. Good to see brainwashing & stupidity is only a one-way street.

 

[Otis]

No, those people voted Tory because of their obsession with Brexit. To some people leaving the EU has become an obsession, they have been dripfed lies and myths for years about how the reason everything is crap in their town is because of foreigners and the EU.

They needed to get their precious Brexit, and they way to get that was to vote Tory. That is why those towns have turned blue for the first time in years, if not ever.

And when we get No Deal or Boris' Deal many of them will lose their jobs. Their towns will become more run down, and worse places to live. But of course they don't see that now, they just needed their precious Brexit.

Some truly are 'leave means leave' without any thought of any consequence. I have spoken to people with that exact attitude.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Don't think either side would want a referendum before the Brexit process is clearer.
SNP have same level of support as at the last referendum when they said it was a once in a generational thing.

Brexit is a pretty drastic game changer however.

 

[PVA]

Some truly are 'leave means leave' without any thought of any consequence. I have spoken to people with that exact attitude.

Exactly.

As I say, these people have been utterly brainwashed into believing that everything is the fault of the EU and foreigners.

They either don't care or aren't aware that every economic forecasts predicts the country will be worse off after Brexit. They don't care that the government's OWN analysis says the poorest towns will be 17% worse off in terms of GDP after Brexit.

Leave means leave and that's it for most of them.

 

[fatso]

No, those people voted Tory because of their obsession with Brexit. To some people leaving the EU has become an obsession, they have been dripfed lies and myths for years about how the reason everything is crap in their town is because of foreigners and the EU.

They needed to get their precious Brexit, and they way to get that was to vote Tory. That is why those towns have turned blue for the first time in years, if not ever.

And when we get No Deal or Boris' Deal many of them will lose their jobs. Their towns will become more run down, and worse places to live. But of course they don't see that now, they just needed their precious Brexit.

Staggering fucking arrogance.
Some fuckers just can’t see the wood for the trees.
You really could be Corbyn’s stooge. Your kind would argue all day without ever even considering you might be fucking wrong.
Labour have just had the biggest fucking since the war, and you still can’t get the fucking message.

 

[Grendel]

Some truly are 'leave means leave' without any thought of any consequence. I have spoken to people with that exact attitude.

Every business will be signing with relief - oddly those same businesses that employed these thick idiots

 

[Philosorapter]

Damn this thing called Democracy...

If people needed a reminder neo-liberalism is dead then this election surely gave it to them.

 

[rob9872]

No, those people voted Tory because of their obsession with Brexit. To some people leaving the EU has become an obsession, they have been dripfed lies and myths for years about how the reason everything is crap in their town is because of foreigners and the EU.

They needed to get their precious Brexit, and they way to get that was to vote Tory. That is why those towns have turned blue for the first time in years, if not ever.

And when we get No Deal or Boris' Deal many of them will lose their jobs. Their towns will become more run down, and worse places to live. But of course they don't see that now, they just needed their precious Brexit.

It's the 3rd time it's been affirmed and there was a will to force the initial vote in 2016 which is why Cameron pledged it in the 2015 manifesto. If the result had been accepted at the point of the decision instead of belittling leave voters, telling them they were lied to, they didn't know what they were voting for, it was only advisory etc etc then last night simply wouldn't have happened. In fact there would be possibly a campaign already under way looking at re-entry by now with a view to a vote in a couple of years, so yes in short people do want their Brexit at almost any cost.

As for this govt being scummy and deceitful, you're probably right. In fact I think that's people in general and particularly politicians but on all sides of the house as so often in recent history has been proved. The difference now in the social media age where everyone's not only an expert, but MP's are more accessible and lots of the stuff written down is shared to death so there is no hiding place. I guess they all have a past, we all do, I'd hate some of the stuff I wrote 15 years ago to be raised at me daily. In fact anyone who is so sanitised that they don't have any skeletons, are they really so pure that they know enough about life to lead the rest of us who have so many flaws?

 

[Grendel]

Exactly.

As I say, these people have been utterly brainwashed into believing that everything is the fault of the EU and foreigners.

They either don't care or aren't aware that every economic forecasts predicts the country will be worse off after Brexit. They don't care that the government's OWN analysis says the poorest towns will be 17% worse off in terms of GDP after Brexit.

Leave means leave and that's it for most of them.

The economic forecasts don’t say that - it’s you who have been brainwashed you arrogant bigoted twat

 

[Otis]

Every business will be signing with relief - oddly those same businesses that employed these thick idiots

Well, I do think he makes at least some sense, so I'm sticking with PVA.

 

[Grendel]

Well, I do think he makes at least some sense, so I'm sticking with PVA.

Who does? You do realise business modelling for a labour government was far worse than Brexit and that even with Brexit the economic models employed by remain agencies predict growth over the next decade?

 

[Otis]

Who does? You do realise business modelling for a labour government was far worse than Brexit and that even with Brexit the economic models employed by remain agencies predict growth over the next decade?

I think that may have just whooshed.

 

[stupot07]

Ironically the pro brexit policy vote (Tory and Brexit) was only 45.6%


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[PVA]

The economic forecasts don’t say that - it’s you who have been brainwashed you arrogant bigoted twat

Don't they? Let's see some (credible) forecasts that say Brexit is going to be a resounding success.

 

[Grendel]

Ironically the pro brexit vote (Tory and Brexit) was only 45.6%


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No labour voter wanted Brexit? Lol

 

[stupot07]

No labour voter wanted Brexit? Lol

Likewise no Tory voter wanted Remain? Lol

But you know full well what I meant.

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[Grendel]

Don't they? Let's see some (credible) forecasts that say Brexit is going to be a resounding success.

I suggest you start by looking at the data regarding the claim that we will be £4,300 worse off as claimed by remain in the last referendum and look how that was calculated.

educate yourself first with that and if you are struggling I will help you out

Put your bigotry in your pocket and behave like an adult and we will discuss

ok?