Fisher: Reasonable rent firgure is north of £150,000 a year (1 Viewer)

skyblu3sk

Well-Known Member
Reasonable figure is `north of £150,000 a year' says Fisher after rejecting Arena chiefs' offer to halve it to £650,000
THE Sky Blues and Ricoh stadium bosses appear far apart in negotiations over setting a new rent, after the club mooted a figure “north of £150,000“ a year.

The suggestion by Coventry City Football Club chief executive Tim Fisher is at odds with Arena Coventry Limited's (ACL) offer to halve the rent to £650,000-a-year.
Both sides have stated they do not want to publicly discuss commercial negotiations.
But on Saturday the Telegraph revealed senior figures at Coventry City Council ­ which owns ACL alongside the Alan Edward Higgs Charity ­ had been briefed the club had rejected the £650,000 offer.
The deficit-hit football club and hedge fund owners Sisu claim the current rent of over £1.2million is far higher than the market rate, especially now the club has been relegated to League One.
They have refused to make monthly payments since April ­ a month before the Sky Blues were relegated.
Mr Fisher said: “I think we have to come up with a reasonable number ­ a number which will be north of £100,000 or £150,000 without a shadow of a doubt, but allows us to balance our finances in a better fashion, but also allows ACL to move their business forward without leaving a gaping hole.“
Both sides say negotiations are continuing, despite media reporting of their respective bargaining positions.
The Telegraph understands the Sky Blues have been given until September 13 to reach a deal. ACL took the Sky Blues to the High Court earlier this month over non-payment of five months of £100,000 instalments into a mutually arranged bank account ­ in which previous deposited reserves, withdrawn recent ly by ACL to ensure pay ment, are about to run out.
Rumours have been rife the club ­ which announced op erating losses of £6.7 million for 2010/11 in June ­ could face liquidation unless it cuts costs and finds new revenue streams. But Coventry City Council leader John Mutton is among those who have pointed out any movement on rent would not make a major impression on the club’s deficit. Most of the club’s expenditure goes on players’ wages.

New Football League rules dictate a maximum 65 per cent of a club’s revenue can be spent on paying players.

With the Sky Blues’ revenue expected to be half last season’s £11million, it could leave a players’ wage bill of around £3.5million.

Mr Fisher says Sisu is funding League One’s second highest players’ wage bill.

Profits at ACL were £470,000 last year, for a project designed to deliver a
return to city taxpayers on the council’s investment and create jobs.
They are expected to rise to around £1 million this year, but a £650,000 rent drop in rent would be a large hit – and much larger without a football club playing there.

The Sky Blues also want the Higgs charity’s 50 per cent stake in the Ricoh company, long valued by some at around £10 million, to obtain new income streams from commercial activities, including hotel and conference bookings.

The threat of administration or liquidation was alleviated in June when SISU boss Joy Seppala belatedly agreed to sign off the football club’s 2010/11 accounts, and underwrite any further losses this year.
 

Diehard Si

New Member
£150k is stupidly low. SISU can't use a league 1 benchmark for stadium rent and then say how we've got the biggest squad and one of the biggest attendances. It doesn't wash.
 

covross

New Member
Its one great big paradox. If I was ACL I'd be thinking if SISU can't afford an annual 650000 payment then where are they getting the 10 million from to buy Higgs' 50 % stake. Put your money where your mouth is SISU.
 

Sky Blue Ian

New Member
I think Fisher has said its not a case of not affording it, it's a strategic business decision based on what they think is a fair rent
 

sparky

Member
I don't think they will be offering 10mill for the higgs share tbh especially because sisu know we sold that share for 4 mill, I can see them offering what the club sold it for at most
 

covkid69

Well-Known Member
they keep using the term"north of" when most of the time what they actually pay out and receive for players is "south of" :D:D
 

PWKH

New Member
I don't think they will be offering 10mill for the higgs share tbh especially because sisu know we sold that share for 4 mill, I can see them offering what the club sold it for at most

The amount paid in 2003 was £6.5m.
 

PWKH

New Member
are the talks still on going to sell to SISU? and do you think the council will veto the sale if a price was agreed?

Progress is still being made to resolve what is a very complicated and therefore time consuming situation. I am afraid that is all I can say at the moment. There are so many moving parts that it takes a lot of time and care to bring them all into alignment. What I can say is that nobody is just sitting on their hands.
 

skyblueman

New Member
Fisher is really beginning to worry me now

A drop of £650k on a legally binding contract is a HUGE concession from ACL and fair play to them for that - that puts massive pressure on their profits but they were prepared to do it - really this was a lot better than I could have expected and I respect them 100% for that

BUT we has Fisher prepared to pay only £150k a year - getting on for 10% of what they are contracted to pay - I mean that is utterly ridiculous - he might as well have said let us play there for free - how on earth does he think this is fair?

How can you make those sort of demands when you are still paying out many millions a year on wages?

Fisher seriously you need to consider both sides here - in business deals only work out if both parties are satisfied with the outcome - this is a joke - what's your bargaining position - 'do as I say or I'll fold the club' - ACl at this level might as well call his bluff as a new CCFC phoenix I'm sure would manage a better rent than this
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Its one great big paradox. If I was ACL I'd be thinking if SISU can't afford an annual 650000 payment then where are they getting the 10 million from to buy Higgs' 50 % stake. Put your money where your mouth is SISU.

because SISU's investors would see paying high rent as dead investment, rightly so.
 

SkyBlueScottie

Well-Known Member
Progress is still being made to resolve what is a very complicated and therefore time consuming situation. I am afraid that is all I can say at the moment. There are so many moving parts that it takes a lot of time and care to bring them all into alignment. What I can say is that nobody is just sitting on their hands.

Thanks for the reply its nice to hear something which is not polarised by the blind love / blind distrust of SISU, the football club and the council.

A quick question, what happens to the rent agreement if the football club becomes part owners of the stadium / ACL? It seems as though prfot margins are quite tight at the moment and a decent sized percentage of that surely comes from the rent agreement, would the club still be expected to pay rent or would there be a slight hole in the profit margin?
 

smouch1975

Well-Known Member
Progress is still being made to resolve what is a very complicated and therefore time consuming situation. I am afraid that is all I can say at the moment. There are so many moving parts that it takes a lot of time and care to bring them all into alignment. What I can say is that nobody is just sitting on their hands.

I like this guy. He always adds value to this forum.
 

PWKH

New Member
It is difficult to answer that question: on the face of it CCFC have a lease and licence from ACL which leases from the Council. Changes in ownership of shares in ACL or CCFC do not change the contracts between the companies. These are some of the moving parts that have to be aligned. Another poster said that negotiation is about trying to meet somewhere that can be accepted by both sides. Here there are many "sides" and trying to get them all into a place where they can "accept" is time consuming and needs care. I avoid the word "difficult" deliberately because it is not a helpful word. What is needed to gain success is care, time and patience. From the outside it can look as though nothing is happening and if that is frustrating for fans it is doubly so for journalists who need drama and conflict to try to get people to read their 'papers. Drama and conflict do not help negotiations. And that, I am afraid, is really all I can say.
 

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
Yes its fair to say that ACL have offered a figure against this years profit to bring them down to break even { Although, they have admitted that they will get a boost on that this year from the olympics}. I think they are being reasonable and SISU as usual are pushing their luck.
 

SkyBlueScottie

Well-Known Member
Thanks PWKH, I agree with your sentiments and its good to have it confirmed that sensibke discussiions are taking place as often all we hear are rumours or seemingly flammable interviews / articles in the press.

Ashdown its entirely possible that's the case, however as custodians of the club surely they should be fighting for the best deal regardless of whatever our opinions are of them? On the flip side its also correct for the other side of the table to fight as hard as possible to get their best deal. All in all I hope its resolved in a manner whoch allows the club to move forward, acl to continue turning in a profit and for the Arena as a whole to prosper which in turn will help the whole City.
 

Sky Blues

Active Member
It is difficult to answer that question: on the face of it CCFC have a lease and licence from ACL which leases from the Council. Changes in ownership of shares in ACL or CCFC do not change the contracts between the companies. These are some of the moving parts that have to be aligned. Another poster said that negotiation is about trying to meet somewhere that can be accepted by both sides. Here there are many "sides" and trying to get them all into a place where they can "accept" is time consuming and needs care. I avoid the word "difficult" deliberately because it is not a helpful word. What is needed to gain success is care, time and patience. From the outside it can look as though nothing is happening and if that is frustrating for fans it is doubly so for journalists who need drama and conflict to try to get people to read their 'papers. Drama and conflict do not help negotiations. And that, I am afraid, is really all I can say.

As ever, thank you for taking the time to tell us what you can.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
Drama and conflict do not help negotiations. And that, I am afraid, is really all I can say.

With the greatest of respect, and being appreciative of an 'insider's view' as that's what you seemingly offer; to appear on radio and state that a fair value of less than 10% of the contracted sum is ever liable to bring drama to the negotiating table. I am in the fortunate position of negotiating contracts well in excess of this value regularly, and - frankly speaking - if I was sat opposite someone speaking in such terms, I'd find it awful, awful hard to take them seriously :thinking about:
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
PWKH.
I won't press you for a figure but have Sisu made an offer yes or no for the charities half of the stadium.
My gripe is that Sisu are trying to rip off a charity organisation for its own benefit.
6.5million was paid for half the stadium by the charity. Its got to be worth a lot more than that now ?
However much the Higgs charity get we know the money will be well used and go to good causes. I just hope they don't give it away for less than its worth.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
6.5million was paid for half the stadium by the charity. Its got to be worth
a lot more than that now ?

Just playing devils advocate....but why do you think its worth more....

Property prices, especially commercial property prices, have plummeted since they paid £6.5M for their share....

...PLUS we are in a huge double-dip recession...

...PLUS the only feasible tennant is broke & already in serious rent arrears

...PLUS the other revenue streams, matchday & otherwise, will surely drop even further...

.....PLUS its no longer brand-spanking new...

....I'd say its worth a lot less than the original sale price.
 

skyblueman

New Member
Just playing devils advocate....but why do you think its worth more....

Property prices, especially commercial property prices, have plummeted since they paid £6.5M for their share....

...PLUS we are in a huge double-dip recession...

...PLUS the only feasible tennant is broke & already in serious rent arrears

...PLUS the other revenue streams, matchday & otherwise, will surely drop even further...

.....PLUS its no longer brand-spanking new...

....I'd say its worth a lot less than the original sale price.

OK it's for half the lease for 50 years not a freehold but the stadium cost over £110 Million - it's not some shed on an industrial estate - so for the shares that's half the total income from ALL activities for 50 years!! Recession and hopefully clubs fortunes will be very different in those tiescales - Seems like a bit of a bargain to me
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
I personally think the council should reduce rent even further than 50% because it's crippling the club, if the club goes down, businesses around the area will go down as well. Anyway, what good are the council doing with this revenue? Last time I checked, they cancelled funding for 5 schools to be revamped! They'll make a steady profit and will get a return!

If SISU has more money, they will invest in the club to get to the premiership because they'll make a lot of profit, that's why they are not putting the club down yet! People moaning about SiSU running for profit, but that's the nature of a capitalist economy, that's reality! I don't like it, but that's how it is, that's what football has become!
 

valiant15

New Member
Taylor,have you nor learnes anything about sisu yet? They've no interest in investing in the club,when will the penny drop with mugs like you? If acl cave in to sisu then more fool them.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Taylor,have you nor learnes anything about sisu yet? They've no interest in investing in the club,when will the penny drop with mugs like you? If acl cave in to sisu then more fool them.

If they got to the prem, they've hit a gold mine and will get a return on their investment, they would've put us into admin if this weren't the case! Could you suggest why they haven't yet?

Why do you think they've brought in players this window? To get us promoted, more revenue.

It's the nature of the economic system to run for profit. Look at the NFL, for example, a franchise stops making profit, no buyers, they fold the franchise. Before you say, it isn't that different!

I'm no mug, I understand why they haven't put us into admin yet, why they initially invested in Dann, Fox, Eastwood (stand to be corrected on that one, not too sure) and others, it's only til problems such as not owning the stadium is why they've invested in keeping us afloat! The day SiSU knovv they can't take us to the prem, and no buyers are interested, is the day we go into admin!

Oh btw, when will 'mugs' like you know that no as of yet, no one is going to buy us and they're the only people keeping us afloat!
 

skyblueman

New Member
Only reason SISU are still around is they want their £30Million back - or at least as much of it as they can get - that's why we haven't gone into Admin yet as they are the only ones that really stand to lose

They haven't 'Invested' in any news players recently they are all freebies & loans - they sold anyone they could for cash

There will be no money invested in the squad - if we have anyone decent on the books - they will sell them for ££££££££

At this time the club is worthless in cash terms - they were suckered in by so called football 'experts' when we were in the championship with daft plans to get into the promised land of the Premiership where they could make a quick buck selling the club on - SISU were the mugs clearly

If all ACL are going to get is £150k a year for the rent then they might as well tell SISU to get lost - ACL will easily get more than that from a new owner - and they will be queuing up if we go into Admin - decent squad - debt free - fabulous stadium - the only thing holding us back is SiSU now
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Only reason SISU are still around is they want their £30Million back - or at least as much of it as they can get - that's why we haven't gone into Admin yet as they are the only ones that really stand to lose

They haven't 'Invested' in any news players recently they are all freebies & loans - they sold anyone they could for cash

There will be no money invested in the squad - if we have anyone decent on the books - they will sell them for ££££££££

At this time the club is worthless in cash terms - they were suckered in by so called football 'experts' when we were in the championship with daft plans to get into the promised land of the Premiership where they could make a quick buck selling the club on - SISU were the mugs clearly

If all ACL are going to get is £150k a year for the rent then they might as well tell SISU to get lost - ACL will easily get more than that from a new owner - and they will be queuing up if we go into Admin - decent squad - debt free - fabulous stadium - the only thing holding us back is SiSU now

That's your take on it fair enough.

But, they best way for SiSU to get their investment back is to get back to the prem.

They can't afford to invest in the squad because of problems such as, not owning a penny from the ground, 'supporters' not watching the games.

What other choice to austerity measure do the club have now!?

I remember spending money we never had pre-SISU got us into the position of not owning the ground and finanical difficulty post-prem relegation McGinty, Robinson, them crooks fucked us over more than SISU ever have, or ever will! Don't ever forget that!

Buyers will not queue up to take Cov on with; high rent, not owning a penny on match day (bar ticket sales), wasters such as Bell + Macca on the wage bill! Last time we thought this we ended up with SISU! :facepalm:

Many of you are detracted from reality.

Note: I'm not pro-Sisu, it's my take on the scenario!
 

skyblueman

New Member
That's your take on it fair enough.

But, they best way for SiSU to get their investment back is to get back to the prem.

They can't afford to invest in the squad because of problems such as, not owning a penny from the ground, 'supporters' not watching the games.

What other choice to austerity measure do the club have now!?

I remember spending money we never had pre-SISU got us into the position of not owning the ground and finanical difficulty post-prem relegation McGinty, Robinson, them crooks fucked us over more than SISU ever have, or ever will! Don't ever forget that!

Buyers will not queue up to take Cov on with; high rent, not owning a penny on match day (bar ticket sales), wasters such as Bell + Macca on the wage bill! Last time we thought this we ended up with SISU! :facepalm:

Many of you are detracted from reality.

Note: I'm not pro-Sisu, it's my take on the scenario!

Largely agree but still think the historic debts caused absolutely by those pre-SISU owners are still going to hamper our progress for many years - I think for sure it puts off any potential bidders for the club - what does really concern me is that if we get back up again and the club starts to look profitable given the cost cutting that's gone on now I think SISU will be content for a time to claw back the money from operating profits - I don't think they will be pumping money in boost the playing staff - we could have a romping year - uncover some really good players and watch as SISU cash in every step they can - I just think without the debt mountain we would be a lot better off
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
I think rent will be settled around 250k/350k for this year only. Like it or not all parties need to get it done.
 

valiant15

New Member
Sbt,if sisu get us to the prem? They've been here 5 years,we've never made the playoffs once and now the hopeless fools have took us to the 3rd tier. They are only here because they dont want to write off their original 30mill investment. That's the only reason we havent gone into admin. To say there would be nobody willing to take the club over is daft,if we were forced into admin and the debts were virtually wiped out of cource there would be interested parties. Is it sisu forever then?
 

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