Fisher and Waggott renegotiating contracts (1 Viewer)

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Much has been made of Fisher and Waggott allegedly renegotiating the contracts of the senior squad over the close-season term; and the apparent negative effect it's had on motivation of the team.

Many have heralded their tougher stance as worthy and met it with applause. One question though; they are the latest in a long line of SISU's representatives given a crack at running the club. But aren't they trying to change the terms of contracts awarded by SISU themselves?

Is there a single player at the club, who hasn't joined according to the terms of a SISU contract, or had a SISU-agreed extension?

 

---

[fernandopartridge]

Much has been made of Fisher and Waggott allegedly renegotiating the contracts of the senior squad over the close-season term; and the apparent negative effect it's had on motivation of the team.

Many have heralded their tougher stance as worthy and met it with applause. One question though; they are the latest in a long line of SISU's representatives given a crack at running the club. But aren't they trying to change the terms of contracts awarded by SISU themselves?

Is there a single player at the club, who hasn't joined according to the terms of a SISU contract, or had a SISU-agreed extension?

What's your point? The contract is with the employer, i.e. CCFC. The employer is attempting to renegotiate the contacts due to its decreased earnings. I am sure you'll find plenty of similar examples of employers doing the same thing in the real world.

 

[castlevaleskyblue]

I do agree with them on the new bonus thing especially only getting it in the top 6 as it rewards them doing well. What I never understood was why they were handing out ridiculously long contracts to average players last season.

 

[We'll_live_and_die]

I do agree with them on the new bonus thing especially only getting it in the top 6 as it rewards them doing well. What I never understood was why they were handing out ridiculously long contracts to average players last season.

That's got to be to do with increasing value of the assetts surely? If you have a player signed for 1 season they are worth less than a player signed for 3 seasons. Ala Bigi would have been worth a lot less than we got for him on a 1 year contract.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

My point is simple. Most clubs include clauses in contracts which give rise to wage reductions or losses in bonuses when faced with relegation. Then both parties understand all four corners of the contract before agreeing to proceed.

If they haven't included such in contracts, and then wish to retrospectively negotiate it, it seems somewhere between amateurish and duplicitous.

Add to the mix the withholding of rent to ACL from a signed tenancy agreement, and there's a tendency developing here that should be cause for alarm

 

[Astute]

It causes me alarm. We could end up losing our beloved SISU

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

It was a good move, they are trying to rectify the mistakes the likes of Duleiu and Ranson made. I don't believe it is the reason for poor performances

Weren't the renegotiations of contracts to do with bonuses, not to do with negotiating the basic wage reduction on relegation. So they wanted to remove things such as appearance/goal fee's bonus which is right. The club employ you on a basic wage to represent and play for the club, yet the players then want extra bonuses to actually play for the club.

 

[Grendel]

My point is simple. Most clubs include clauses in contracts which give rise to wage reductions or losses in bonuses when faced with relegation. Then both parties understand all four corners of the contract before agreeing to proceed.

If they haven't included such in contracts, and then wish to retrospectively negotiate it, it seems somewhere between amateurish and duplicitous.

Add to the mix the withholding of rent to ACL from a signed tenancy agreement, and there's a tendency developing here that should be cause for alarm

A company I have worked for changed my bonus conditions which required me to agree to the revised negative terms (effectively a 10% reduction) and it was made quite clear what would happen if I didn't.

It is not that unheard of. Turn it the other way. Say that the club got promoted to the Premiership. Do you think the players on League One wages might get their agents to bang on Fisher's door demanding new terms? I do.

If these players feel hard done to let them go elsewhere if they think they will find better rewards.

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

The majority of new players have come in on the sisu terms so there should be no problem.

Why should the likes of Mcsheffrey be on a stupid high wage when he doesn't contribute anyway.

 

[ccfcway]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...dan-clarke-signs-new-contract-92746-31638518/

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

My concern isn't for the financial well-being of the Gary McSheffery's of this world, believe me. But I'm less that confortanle with the owners of the club reneging on contractual terms when it suits them to do so.

Grendel: how did you feel in your position as described though?

 

[Grendel]

My concern isn't for the financial well-being of the Gary McSheffery's of this world, believe me. But I'm less that confortanle with the owners of the club reneging on contractual terms when it suits them to do so.

Grendel: how did you feel in your position as described though?

I was less than ecstatic. I can't say it effected my work levels as ultimately you have to get on with it.

It rankled for a couple of years but it's over with now.

 

[Marty]

That's got to be to do with increasing value of the assetts surely? If you have a player signed for 1 season they are worth less than a player signed for 3 seasons. Ala Bigi would have been worth a lot less than we got for him on a 1 year contract.

If they are worthless to begin with, for example Bell, Baker, McSheffrey, then why would they increase the asset's? Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

 

[Grendel]

If they are worthless to begin with, for example Bell, Baker, McSheffrey, then why would they increase the asset's? Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

Presumably the belief was that having a squad with contracts due to expire that year has a weaker asset value.

 

[We'll_live_and_die]

If they are worthless to begin with, for example Bell, Baker, McSheffrey, then why would they increase the asset's? Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

An assett is worth what it's worth. This is regardless of if anyone wants to buy said assett. A £4million commercial unit in Tile Hill is worth that whether someone wants to buy it or not, where banks are concerned.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

It was a good move, they are trying to rectify the mistakes the likes of Duleiu and Ranson made. I don't believe it is the reason for poor performances

Weren't the renegotiations of contracts to do with bonuses, not to do with negotiating the basic wage reduction on relegation. So they wanted to remove things such as appearance/goal fee's bonus which is right. The club employ you on a basic wage to represent and play for the club, yet the players then want extra bonuses to actually play for the club.

But we have removed the financial incentive to actually being in the team, rather than sitting on your arse every week. I'm pretty certain that has had a negative effect. Apart from those players who refused, and ironically now find themselves sitting on their arse...despite being our only goal threat :facepalm:

 

[Grendel]

But we have removed the financial incentive to actually being in the team, rather than sitting on your arse every week. I'm pretty certain that has had a negative effect. Apart from those players who refused, and ironically now find themselves sitting on their arse...despite being our only goal threat :facepalm:

The appearance monies didn't seem to motivate Eastwood last year. The other issue is that a lot of them anyway will get it as they will always make the squad. For Murphy there is no bonus it's just a salary.

 

[lordsummerisle]

But we have removed the financial incentive to actually being in the team, rather than sitting on your arse every week. I'm pretty certain that has had a negative effect. Apart from those players who refused, and ironically now find themselves sitting on their arse...despite being our only goal threat :facepalm:

As far as I'm aware the financial incentive to being in the team, and doing well, has actually increased.

The bonuses for failing to do well have disappeared though.

Can't disagree with that, and any player who doesn't agree with that can fuck off and find a better job somewhere else if they can.

Suspect they can't though.

 

[Marty]

An assett is worth what it's worth. This is regardless of if anyone wants to buy said assett. A £4million commercial unit in Tile Hill is worth that whether someone wants to buy it or not, where banks are concerned.

You were talking about players contract. I believe an asset is classed as ownership of a product which can be traded/sold for financial gain. Having a short term contract on something nobody would be willing to buy is throwing money away in my eyes.

 

[We'll_live_and_die]

You were talking about players contract. I believe an asset is classed as ownership of a product which can be traded/sold for financial gain. Having a short term contract on something nobody would be willing to buy is throwing money away in my eyes.

I am talking about the business assetts. The players are these. Sideways Sammy is still worth a few hundred k even though he can't get a club.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

As far as I'm aware the financial incentive to being in the team, and doing well, has actually increased.

The bonuses for failing to do well have disappeared though.

Can't disagree with that, and any player who doesn't agree with that can fuck off and find a better job somewhere else if they can.

Suspect they can't though.

Only relatively in terms of the increased gap between what they can earn without success and what they can from doing well, league position wise. But the incentive to actually get in the side-whatever the league position-has been reduced.

Of course form a normal person's perspective they should always try their best and being in the team should be their minimum objective. But "appearance fees" are pretty much universal in football. Once again SISU are the moral knights, taking the game of football to task. Once again, like last season's budget slashing, we the fans are the ones who ultimately bear the brunt of poorer fare on the pitch as a result.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

I am talking about the business assetts. The players are these. Sideways Sammy is still worth a few hundred k even though he can't get a club.

I'm gald someone said Sidewards Sammy: I was thinking about this whilst watching Shearer's analysis of Joe Allen on Saturday's MOTD. We'd bloody hate Allen at CCFC, wouldn't we?!

 

[Grendel]

Once again, like last season's budget slashing, we the fans are the ones who ultimately bear the brunt of poYorer fare on the pitch as a result.

Poorer than what? Are you saying the previous structure was effective last season?

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Poorer than what? Are you saying the previous structure was effective last season?

No, relative to if they hadn't fucked around with the bonus system this season we'd be doing better. If every other team has an incestive system and we don't, of course we'll suffer.

 

[ccfcway]

I'm gald someone said Sidewards Sammy: I was thinking about this whilst watching Shearer's analysis of Joe Allen on Saturday's MOTD. We'd bloody hate Allen at CCFC, wouldn't we?!

the only differnce being allen doesnt give the ball away as much at clingan !

 

[fernandopartridge]

My point is simple. Most clubs include clauses in contracts which give rise to wage reductions or losses in bonuses when faced with relegation. Then both parties understand all four corners of the contract before agreeing to proceed.

If they haven't included such in contracts, and then wish to retrospectively negotiate it, it seems somewhere between amateurish and duplicitous.

Add to the mix the withholding of rent to ACL from a signed tenancy agreement, and there's a tendency developing here that should be cause for alarm

You make the assumption that players would sign up to such terms at the point of transfer.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

You make the assumption that players would sign up to such terms at the point of transfer.

Which means that if the intention to evoke such a clause but not to include it in a contract being duplicitous, no?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

But we have removed the financial incentive to actually being in the team, rather than sitting on your arse every week. I'm pretty certain that has had a negative effect. Apart from those players who refused, and ironically now find themselves sitting on their arse...despite being our only goal threat :facepalm:

Why should you be paid a bonus for appearing for a club when that is your job.

It is like me saying sure I will take that job for x amount salary but I want an extra bonus for actually turning up and doing my job

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

All players signed in the summer agreed to the new bonus structure when signing there contracts

 

[shmmeee]

No, relative to if they hadn't fucked around with the bonus system this season I THINK WITH NO ACTUAL EVIDENCE we'd be doing better. If every other team has an incestive system and we don't, of course we'll suffer.

FTFY.

You have no idea why we're doing so badly. Of the likely team today, the following all signed up to these terms from day one, not renegotiated:

Edje, Jennings, Kilbane, Barton, Elliot, Fleck, McGoldrick

Some of them have been some of the worst performing players this season. Some of our decent performers have been players who did renegotiate. There's no logic to your position, just a pre-conceived notion that if the club (and therefore in your eyes Sisu) do something it must be bad. Ultimately, it's this kind of view that means that we will never be united as fans because the more reasonable majority will not want to be associated with those that foam at the mouth at anything and everything.

Pick your battles.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Why should you be paid a bonus for appearing for a club when that is your job.

It is like me saying sure I will take that job for x amount salary but I want an extra bonus for actually turning up and doing my job

As I said above, "from a normal persons POV", you shouldn't. But footballers do; it's the cultural norm in the game. Just not at trailblazing CCFC.

And you are missing the point-that if they are used to having a financial incentive to do enough to get in or keep their place in the team, and now they've been told they can't have it, I can see why they might "down tools".

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

FTFY.

You have no idea why we're doing so badly. Of the likely team today, the following all signed up to these terms from day one, not renegotiated:

Edje, Jennings, Kilbane, Barton, Elliot, Fleck, McGoldrick

Some of them have been some of the worst performing players this season. Some of our decent performers have been players who did renegotiate. There's no logic to your position, just a pre-conceived notion that if the club (and therefore in your eyes Sisu) do something it must be bad. Ultimately, it's this kind of view that means that we will never be united as fans because the more reasonable majority will not want to be associated with those that foam at the mouth at anything and everything.

Pick your battles.

Well somebody's in a ranty mood!

Jennings/Elliott/Barton-missed preseason
Fleck-has been injured
McGoldrick-looks our best player, certainly the hungriest
Kilbane-is just plain old.

Plenty of other reason's why that lot are playing crap!

What is FTFY, BTW?

 

[valiant15]

I personally think the players are crap and not good enough to get us out of this league.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Well somebody's in a ranty mood!

Jennings/Elliott/Barton-missed preseason
Fleck-has been injured
McGoldrick-looks our best player, certainly the hungriest
Kilbane-is just plain old.

Plenty of other reason's why that lot are playing crap!

What is FTFY, BTW?

McGoldrick is on loan, so won't be on a contract as such with us anyway.

From the looks of him would have thought that McDonald would be our hungriest player anyway.

 

[valiant15]

McDonald isnt fit,he hasn't had a pre season for 2 years now aparently. God knows what he does every pre season,hangs out with Freddy maybe?