Fans Support of Andy Thorn: A sign of just how far we have fallen? (6 Viewers)

hackneyfox · Nov 7, 2011

I reckon the last 2 posts have summed it up perfectly as to why you should get rid.

hackneyfox · Nov 7, 2011

When managers slate players for mistakes in public, then they aren't managing correctly.

He brought in 2 goalies and a striker who hardly plays, so 3 players and only 1 plays.

2 wins in how long?

There is always someone, that you can afford, that is better qualified and ban motivate a team better than AT.

You've had a succession of poor managers, that doesn't mean you keep hold of the latest loser because you have sacked in the past.

Obviously Sisu are to blame for the position you now find yourselves in but they can't be blamed for poor tactics and wrong selections.

He's a scout, not a manager.

'The bottom line that's often gets quoted is "take the best 4 players out of a side who finished 18th and what do you expect, improvement?!"

I'd expect a manager to ensure that he replaced 2 of them (not 1 as mentioned above), I'd expect him to change tactics to take that on board and play to the strengths he has left.
There are teams that get the spine ripped out every season, they don't all just fold.

Plenty of other teams with no money, their fans would be on the backs of the managers.

As for the idea that he did a good ob last year, well 3 in 10 isn't that great and even a dead cat bounces.

I like him and for me he's doing a great job.

canningt · Nov 7, 2011

Sisu Should have invested okay, we get taht but have they no.

Andy Thorn however can be blamed for the tactics, poor team selection, not putting 3 up front. Keeping the same diamond formation which clearly is not working what so ever, Likewise he cannot be blamed for the individual players performance such as Juke missing the penalty ( I think people under rate him massivley amazing at holding up the ball and has scored some decent goals ). Most of the players are not playing with their head or passion, okay SISU are shit but the players are under control of what they are doing when they are on the pitch, how they play on the ball.

The Squad that we have has some brilliant teenage prospects and although bringing in some fresh faces would be good, I think it is the managment that is the problem, some of the playerrs need to step up their game as do the fans. It would be nice rather than people on here complaining about the chants for people to actually support the club vocally.

I do not understand why people do not want Thorn sacked. Okay he hasn't ahd any more players but our squad really isn't that bad. How many squads have players who have premiership teams interested? Just because we have sacked quickly in the past does not mean we cannot do it again. Do i want Thorn out. Yes. Do i respect him. Yes. He was brough into the role with no experience how was he meant to ebe xpected to do well, he wasn;t.

For the people on here saying you wanted him last season, how can you not want him now. I liked him last seasons he provided results and the team played well, but now I have seen more I do not like him,

his tactics are too predictable
unproffesional in interviews
unmotivating as a manager
seen as the saviour against SISU when he could make a plea to fans

So there we go

PUSB - SISU OUT

Otis · Nov 8, 2011

hackneyfox said:
When managers slate players for mistakes in public, then they aren't managing correctly.

He brought in 2 goalies and a striker who hardly plays, so 3 players and only 1 plays.

2 wins in how long?

There is always someone, that you can afford, that is better qualified and ban motivate a team better than AT.

You've had a succession of poor managers, that doesn't mean you keep hold of the latest loser because you have sacked in the past.

Obviously Sisu are to blame for the position you now find yourselves in but they can't be blamed for poor tactics and wrong selections.

He's a scout, not a manager.

'The bottom line that's often gets quoted is "take the best 4 players out of a side who finished 18th and what do you expect, improvement?!"

I'd expect a manager to ensure that he replaced 2 of them (not 1 as mentioned above), I'd expect him to change tactics to take that on board and play to the strengths he has left.
There are teams that get the spine ripped out every season, they don't all just fold.

Plenty of other teams with no money, their fans would be on the backs of the managers.

As for the idea that he did a good ob last year, well 3 in 10 isn't that great and even a dead cat bounces.

I like him and for me he's doing a great job.

Said it before, Hackers. If you weren't a Leshtur fan I think we would be best mates.

Astute · Nov 8, 2011

I have just sat here and read lots of shite posted on this thread.

How big is our squad?

How good is our squad?

How good is our team?

Why are we playing so many of our youth squad at the same time?

How many truthful answers you gave to these questions are answers you are happy with?

So AT does not have an easy job then, does he? He must have about the hardest job in the Championship Have a go at SISU if you like. I reserve judgement on AT until he has more than a fiver to buy a player and can offer more than 50p a week in wages.

Otis · Nov 8, 2011

canningt said:
Sisu Should have invested okay, we get taht but have they no.

Andy Thorn however can be blamed for the tactics, poor team selection, not putting 3 up front. Keeping the same diamond formation which clearly is not working what so ever, Likewise he cannot be blamed for the individual players performance such as Juke missing the penalty ( I think people under rate him massivley amazing at holding up the ball and has scored some decent goals ). Most of the players are not playing with their head or passion, okay SISU are shit but the players are under control of what they are doing when they are on the pitch, how they play on the ball.

The Squad that we have has some brilliant teenage prospects and although bringing in some fresh faces would be good, I think it is the managment that is the problem, some of the playerrs need to step up their game as do the fans. It would be nice rather than people on here complaining about the chants for people to actually support the club vocally.

I do not understand why people do not want Thorn sacked. Okay he hasn't ahd any more players but our squad really isn't that bad. How many squads have players who have premiership teams interested? Just because we have sacked quickly in the past does not mean we cannot do it again. Do i want Thorn out. Yes. Do i respect him. Yes. He was brough into the role with no experience how was he meant to ebe xpected to do well, he wasn;t.

For the people on here saying you wanted him last season, how can you not want him now. I liked him last seasons he provided results and the team played well, but now I have seen more I do not like him,

his tactics are too predictable

unproffesional in interviews

unmotivating as a manager

seen as the saviour against SISU when he could make a plea to fans

So there we go

PUSB - SISU OUT

These two things. The opposition have now sussed us out. We are incredibly predictable. We are also playing without passion and at a slow tempo and this makes it very easy for teams to counter against. They also know that under this deployed system we score at a rate of less than a goal a game.

Just how easy must the opposition team talks be!!

I have never wanted Thorn sacked. I am starting to question him though and to say that no other manager couldn't do any better is a bit daft. We would only know that if a manager came in and we played at tempo and with passion, desire and fight, and pushed up, and had midfielders passing and moving, and had midfielders supporting the front two and had the front two playing closer together. Only then if we still kept losing would we truly know.

Of course the easy answer is for Thorn to implement all of the above.

Macca · Nov 8, 2011

Astute said:
I have just sat here and read lots of shite posted on this thread.

How big is our squad?

How good is our squad?

How good is our team?

Why are we playing so many of our youth squad at the same time?

How many truthful answers you gave to these questions are answers you are happy with?

So AT does not have an easy job then, does he? He must have about the hardest job in the Championship Have a go at SISU if you like. I reserve judgement on AT until he has more than a fiver to buy a player and can offer more than 50p a week in wages.

shite or just stuff you don't agree with?

I've also read a lot of shite talked by people who think he is the best manager for years with absolutely zero evidence to support it but it is still an opinion.

I do realise that I have now inadvertantly called others opinion shite, the irony of it all

davebart · Nov 8, 2011

kduffy said:
Don't know but Thorn isn't even a non-league manager. He is not a manager. According to your logic managers make no difference so let's not have one at all. Have a number in the programme and if the number comes up you can be manager next home game. Why not with this team makes no difference apparantly. You never know it may work we may even win a game, it would make a change.

You miss my point entirely. SISU appointed AT because he was cheap - not because he was a manager. There was never any evidence he was a manager. Somehow he managed to save the club from relegation but that often happens when someone new comes in.

But the evidence is that SISU are not prepared to pay for a proper manager - or indeed a proper team. So I asked where this manager will come from? Can anyone name a credible name?

Colonel Mustard · Nov 8, 2011

Astute said:
So AT does not have an easy job then, does he? He must have about the hardest job in the Championship Have a go at SISU if you like. I reserve judgement on AT until he has more than a fiver to buy a player and can offer more than 50p a week in wages.

Most managers could do better with more money to spend on players; you can only judge a manager on what they've accomplished with the players and resources they do have. With West Ham and Cardiff coming up, it's a likelihood that we'll be in 24th place by the end of the month. If Thorn is doing the best he can, then I shudder to think what the worst would be.

AT is a nice fella and nothing would please me more to see the team turn it around under his stewardship. But if we're rooted at the bottom of the table at Christmas, it's nonsensical to refuse to consider changing the manager. It couldn't get any worse.

Otis · Nov 8, 2011

The only person it would be would be Lee Carsley.

I'm just wondering if Carsley can make the step up and work alongside Thorn to see if he can help him at all.

Colonel Mustard · Nov 8, 2011

davebart said:
But the evidence is that SISU are not prepared to pay for a proper manager - or indeed a proper team. So I asked where this manager will come from? Can anyone name a credible name?

SISU paid off Dowie, Coleman, Boothroyd, and have issued a number of contract extensions recently (almost certainly none of which would have involved a pay decrease). As far as managers go, there's nothing to suggest that they are unwilling to fire-and-hire. A credible name IMO would be Gregor Rioch: he's on the club payroll, he has management experience (albeit at youth level), and has trained and managed half of the current first team squad.

Otis · Nov 8, 2011

Colonel Mustard said:
SISU paid off Dowie, Coleman, Boothroyd, and have issues a number of contract extensions recently (almost certainly none of which would have involved a pay decrease). As far as managers go, there's nothing to suggest that they are unwilling to fire-and-hire. A credible name IMO would be Gregor Rioch: he's on the club payroll, he has management experience (albeit at youth level), and has trained and managed half of the current first team squad.

Good point about the youth players in the squad now. Rioch must know them better than anyone.

Rioch of the Ricoh. There's some fun to be had with that.

Nonleagueherewecome · Nov 8, 2011

Astute said:
I have just sat here and read lots of shite posted on this thread.

How big is our squad?

How good is our squad?

How good is our team?

Why are we playing so many of our youth squad at the same time?

How many truthful answers you gave to these questions are answers you are happy with?

So AT does not have an easy job then, does he? He must have about the hardest job in the Championship Have a go at SISU if you like. I reserve judgement on AT until he has more than a fiver to buy a player and can offer more than 50p a week in wages.

Well said. Even if you include me in the shite! :thinking about:

Knowledge · Nov 8, 2011

How big is our squad?

- Small

How good is our squad?

How good is our team?

- Players-wise, better than people think. Performance wise, terrible in THORN'S SYSTEM

Why are we playing so many of our youth squad at the same time?

- Because we have a small squad/senior pro's not performing in THORN'S SYSTEM

How many truthful answers you gave to these questions are answers you are happy with?

-None.

Why oh why does no-one who comes on here to argue a case for Thorn accept that NO-ONE is saying the squad is good, the squad is big etc, we are saying that THORN'S TACTICS ARE FLAWED. Once again, the team is not going to win any trophies, but THE TACTICS USED BY THIS MANAGER ARE CLEARLY NOT SUITED TO THE PLAYERS WE HAVE.

And whilst I am at it, people saying ''look how well Coleman, Boothroyd, Dowie Reid etc did'' - so f*ucking what, how is that relevant, they were poor managers too, doesn't mean we have to put up with continued shite and doesn't excuse what Thorn is doing.

And when we had the big 3 players last season and everyone was creaming their pants over how amazing Thorn had done, the guy had a 30% win ratio for us, that is as bad as Coleman and Boothroyd and worse than any other manager we have had in recent memory, WITH KING, WESTWOOD, GUNNAR ETC!! It is still pretty much relegation form, we were simply helped by other teams being awful.

So there you go, agreeing with all the points about the squad.

Sky Blue M · Nov 8, 2011

What formation would be suited to the players we have then?

stupot07 · Nov 8, 2011

In a purely statistical analysis pov, the smaller the cohort of games the more distorted figures can become from of off results. He was in charge for only 10 games we won 3 times so it's 30%. had he won 1 more game it would have been 40%.

Perhaps oggy and peak should take over...haven't they got a 100% record from the 1 game they were caretakers?

These kind of stats only make sense over a season or more.

And before you say it yes his win % is pretty terrible.

And what does having 5 defenders out injured and having to play 3 teenagers in the back 4 got to do with tactics?

stupot07 · Nov 8, 2011

Oh and if you love stats so much last season under thorn
PL 10
W 3
D 5
L 2
Pts 14
Pts per game 1.4

Est points over the season = 64.4

That IS NOT relegation form.

Otis · Nov 8, 2011

I don't pay too much heed to these kind of percentages. Has no allowance for circumstances and players available to managers.

ajsccfc · Nov 8, 2011

So once King and Gunnarsson are back in the team we'll be good to go!

Knowledge · Nov 8, 2011

Sky Blue M said:
What formation would be suited to the players we have then?

Here you go: http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threa...-Support-of-Andy-Thorn-A-sign-of-just-how-far...)

Astute · Nov 8, 2011

So who thought at the start of the season that we would struggle? We are lacking goalscorers. We have one. Juke needs help. I suppose AT needs to go as he is not the miracle worker some hoped he was. I hoped we would be doing better. My hope was misguided. I just find it hard to blame someone that does not have the tools to do his job.

One good player that puts the effort in would make all the difference. Two good players would make a massive difference. One in midfield to run the show, and one up front to put the ball in the back of the net. If AT was given the tools to do his job and then failed would make me feel different towards him. We lost nearly half a team of good players. How many good players replaced these? How many good experienced players are left at our club that seem to want to play for us?

It is the same as SISU. Yet another target to blame. I want SISU to go. They have proved themselves. We know what they are all about now. Blaming others will not get us out of the shite we are now in.

Otis · Nov 8, 2011

I thought we would struggle at the start of the season.

Wasn't counting on though that besides all the handicaps of the playing squad that we would also have a lack of fighting spirit, poor tactics and poor motivation. Hard enough as it is without these extra problems on top. :facepalm:

davebart · Nov 8, 2011

Colonel Mustard said:
SISU paid off Dowie, Coleman, Boothroyd, and have issued a number of contract extensions recently (almost certainly none of which would have involved a pay decrease). As far as managers go, there's nothing to suggest that they are unwilling to fire-and-hire. A credible name IMO would be Gregor Rioch: he's on the club payroll, he has management experience (albeit at youth level), and has trained and managed half of the current first team squad.

Thank you - at last someone with a positive thought, and well reasoned too.

Grendel · Nov 8, 2011

Astute said:
I have just sat here and read lots of shite posted on this thread.

How big is our squad?

How good is our squad?

How good is our team?

Why are we playing so many of our youth squad at the same time?

How many truthful answers you gave to these questions are answers you are happy with?

So AT does not have an easy job then, does he? He must have about the hardest job in the Championship Have a go at SISU if you like. I reserve judgement on AT until he has more than a fiver to buy a player and can offer more than 50p a week in wages.

I don't know what you do for a living but in business you get a series of targets to achieve and you are given a budget to work with for the year. In many businesses the resource is scarce and the objective increases. You are then judged on that performance. Nothing will change in terms of funds so what exactly is your point? The manager has an assignment and he has to achieve within the means set. You highlight no strengths of Thorn just the conditions he works with. The assumption he will suddenly start being a manager if conditions change is absurd.
I was in a meeting today with a Doncaster fan. He said he had seen Thorn interviewed at the weekend. "Who is your manager? He looks like that old darts player Leighton Reece with a squeeky voice. Everyone laughed.
AT may not have an easy job but it is his job and if cannot improve the situation he goes as the manager is responsible. SISU must at least be happy they have set the bar so low that some people are actuall prepared to accept Thorn as a credible option.

stupot07 · Nov 8, 2011

kduffy said:
I don't know what you do for a living but in business you get a series of targets to achieve and you are given a budget to work with for the year. In many businesses the resource is scarce and the objective increases. You are then judged on that performance. Nothing will change in terms of funds so what exactly is your point? The manager has an assignment and he has to achieve within the means set. You highlight no strengths of Thorn just the conditions he works with. The assumption he will suddenly start being a manager if conditions change is absurd.
I was in a meeting today with a Doncaster fan. He said he had seen Thorn interviewed at the weekend. "Who is your manager? He looks like that old darts player Leighton Reece with a squeeky voice. Everyone laughed.
AT may not have an easy job but it is his job and if cannot improve the situation he goes as the manager is responsible. SISU must at least be happy they have set the bar so low that some people are actuall prepared to accept Thorn as a credible option.

We don't know what thorns targets are though do we? I.e what his employers have set him. We only know what the fans expect him to achieve, some realistic and some not so.

The finance element does come into it, because in any business you have to have the appropriate level of resource to deliver a task/project. Yes all business want people to do more with less, but they still wouldn't set unreasonable objectives. For example a top 6th finish.

As well as not knowing what Thorns employers expectations are, we do not know what the level of resource is. We know that we cannot afford additional resource but for example we don't know what the wage bill is in comparison with other teams. Perhaps we have the second lowest wage bill and we are where we rightfully should be....or perhaps not.

And a colleague took the piss out of thorn? So what? I remember people taking the piss out of big fat Ron and his Ginger dwarf.

Grendel · Nov 8, 2011

Actually unreasonable objectives are set all the time. A reaonable and perfectly attainable objective this season is a bottom 6 finish - probably an objective set to Peterborough as well I would think. People may have laughed at big Ron but they knew who he was - Thorn is no manager but he will be remembered for a very long time as the person who managed the club into Division 1 and with the worst points record in the division. It's going to happen and you know it.

Disorganised1 · Nov 9, 2011

I don't think so
:thinking about:

davebart · Nov 9, 2011

kduffy said:
I was in a meeting today with a Doncaster fan. He said he had seen Thorn interviewed at the weekend. "Who is your manager? He looks like that old darts player Leighton Reece with a squeeky voice. Everyone laughed. QUOTE]

Your colleague is an idiot. Andy Thorn was a fine player and I believe has an FA cup winners medal.

stupot07 · Nov 9, 2011

kduffy said:
Actually unreasonable objectives are set all the time. A reaonable and perfectly attainable objective this season is a bottom 6 finish - probably an objective set to Peterborough as well I would think.

Well if a bottom 6 finish is what his objective is then he's bang on course then isn't he as we are in the bottom 6.

Otis · Nov 9, 2011

Bottom 6 would be fine. It's bottom 3 that's the problem.

Grendel · Nov 9, 2011

And so does Bobby Gould as his manager and a fine manager he wasn't.

Steve Sedgeley has one as well - Wow.

Grendel · Nov 9, 2011

davebart said:
kduffy said:

I was in a meeting today with a Doncaster fan. He said he had seen Thorn interviewed at the weekend. "Who is your manager? He looks like that old darts player Leighton Reece with a squeeky voice. Everyone laughed. QUOTE]

Your colleague is an idiot. Andy Thorn was a fine player and I believe has an FA cup winners medal.

Click to expand...

And so does Bobby Gould as his manager and a fine manager he wasn't.

Steve Sedgeley has one as well - Wow.

(Sorry missed the quote marks)

Sick Boy · Feb 27, 2012

@richh87 said:
In a strange way i'm glad we're joint bottom as it may get rid of SISU quicker.

This will not necessarily be the case, it is more likely that SISU will be here if we are relegated.

SydneySkyBlue · Feb 27, 2012

SISU will be out of here by the summer. It's just whether they take us down before they clear off.

LeamingtonBootBoy · Feb 27, 2012

kduffy said:
A reaonable and perfectly attainable objective this season is a bottom 6 finish - probably an objective set to Peterborough as well I would think.

This is the reality...we have aims similar to arguably the weakest team in the league.

Fans Support of Andy Thorn: A sign of just how far we have fallen? (6 Viewers)

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