Fan Unity - What Would It Achieve? (1 Viewer)

[chiefdave]

Either someone's not asking the right people or the right questions.

Terminology, it's companies working on behalf of the owners not the owners who are making the inquiries.

So under FOI, just perhaps someone's being evasive?

The way the FOI requests were worded covered all possibilities so if something is happening the responses aren't evasive they would be outright lies and if councils have been lying in FOI responses they could be in trouble.

 

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[Nick]

The way the FOI requests were worded covered all possibilities so if something is happening the responses aren't evasive they would be outright lies and if councils have been lying in FOI responses they could be in trouble.

Maybe they were admin errors like with CCC?

 

[RFC]

It won't short term, that's for sure.

Long term however, there's more chance of seeing flexibility in council budgets if the lobby group for the club is bigger and more united.

Longer term there's more chance of a half decent owner wanting to buy us if they can see a larger and more united fan group.

What amazes me on here is how many seemingly sane (? debatable maybe!) people resort to the base line of pigeonholing. Nowt wrong with having an opinion one way or another, nowt wrong about arguing with that opinion (this is t'intenet after all, and where would we be without arguing!) but the mindless bollocks of pre-pubescent skybluetalkers on heat is becoming astounding in its execution!

Wouldn't mind if we hadn't done everything to death countless times, and it's pretty obvious who's set fair for what course...

So, beyond that, fan unity gets over that, and allows us to remember there is at least a point in following our team! Not like we chose 'em for the success after all, is it?

If the coming march gets decent numbers than the major players at least see that, even if it's for their own ends, fans are stakeholders who must be considered in some sense. If it ends up the Trust board and the Trust board's cats, along with the bloke who used to take his clothes off in public (Vincent Bethall?) then we're truly fucked.

If you take a look at 'Nick's original reply "nothing the fans do will make any difference", therefore the proposed march is futile.

 

[Nick]

If you take a look at 'Nick's original reply "nothing the fans do will make any difference", therefore the proposed march is futile.

That was just my opinion, I am happy to be wrong and would be delighted if the march changed things and think Steve B etc should get keys to the city.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If you take a look at 'Nick's original reply "nothing the fans do will make any difference", therefore the proposed march is futile.

I'm not allowed to disagree with Nick then, if my own opinion ain't the same?

The day fan action is futile is the day the club stops existing. What that action is may be futile, what the aims of that action are may be futile but... if the aim is a re-assertion of identity and presence, then it certainly ain't.

 

[Nick]

I'm not allowed to disagree with Nick then?

Nobody is, I am the king of the fans remember!

 

[Jack Griffin]

If you take a look at 'Nick's original reply "nothing the fans do will make any difference", therefore the proposed march is futile.

That is just someone else's opinion. All your statement highlights is just how poor your critical thinking skills are.

PS I am a republican

 

[skybluetony176]

Either someone's not asking the right people or the right questions.

Terminology, it's companies working on behalf of the owners not the owners who are making the inquiries.

So under FOI, just perhaps someone's being evasive?

The questions were worded around football stadia not the owners and only one local authority was being evasive. Simon Gilbert made an official complaint, an apology was made and the clarification on the question was given.

Unless when you say north and south you mean north of Birmingham and south of Northampton. But that would contradict the 6 miles quote you're pinning your hopes on.

 

[Samo]

It won't short term, that's for sure.

Long term however, there's more chance of seeing flexibility in council budgets if the lobby group for the club is bigger and more united.

Longer term there's more chance of a half decent owner wanting to buy us if they can see a larger and more united fan group.

What amazes me on here is how many seemingly sane (? debatable maybe!) people resort to the base line of pigeonholing. Nowt wrong with having an opinion one way or another, nowt wrong about arguing with that opinion (this is t'intenet after all, and where would we be without arguing!) but the mindless bollocks of pre-pubescent skybluetalkers on heat is becoming astounding in its execution!

Wouldn't mind if we hadn't done everything to death countless times, and it's pretty obvious who's set fair for what course...

So, beyond that, fan unity gets over that, and allows us to remember there is at least a point in following our team! Not like we chose 'em for the success after all, is it?

If the coming march gets decent numbers than the major players at least see that, even if it's for their own ends, fans are stakeholders who must be considered in some sense. If it ends up the Trust board and the Trust board's cats, along with the bloke who used to take his clothes off in public (Vincent Bethall?) then we're truly fucked.

Like the last march? I'm not being deliberately difficult NW... I think until this war is over we are merely onlookers. This is about business, egos and hard cash and its bitter, spiteful and to the death. When it is over and rebuilding can begin, then whoever holds power will be more inclined to consider us as customers.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Like the last march? I'm not being deliberately difficult NW... I think until this war is over we are merely onlookers. This is about business, egos and hard cash and its bitter, spiteful and to the death. When it is over and rebuilding can begin, then whoever holds power will be more inclined to consider us as customers.

Indeed like the last one

But you won't see instant results, and you certainly won't when the last one is then followed by a few blokes underneath a Hungry Horse sign (NOPM FOR A FRY-UP!), bugger all people on the hill for Sheff Utd, sod all people outside the council house, and three men and a McChicken Sandwich outside SISU's headquarters.

Every now and again there's a fleeting moment of success, something that momentum can be built on - the first march was one, the Arsenal effort was another... unfortunately it then gets reduced to shouty bllocks straight after so all momentum is lost, and the large middle ground of passive concerned onlookers are turned off even trying to show they care!

I agree with you we ultimately won't change certain decisions (is why I think the split into NOPM and scab Sixfield Scum is particularly unhelpful) but there can be other aims, that set us up to be as strong as possible once the game moves on elsewhere.

But there's an absence of pressure, full-stop, so nobody needs to justify themselves.

 

[SBT]

Blockade the area around the Ricoh when a concert is on.

I'm sorry, we've had some militant protest ideas floated in the past, but none of them offer the kind of hilarious mental images as this one. The sight of rebel commanders in sky blue berets urging their fellow fans to man the barricades in the face of constant assault from thousands of p*ssed up middle-aged women in Take That tshirts, all in the name of denying ACL their F&B revenue - that would truly be a sight to behold. How the FL could ignore this, I don't know.

 

[Samo]

Indeed like the last one

But you won't see instant results, and you certainly won't when the last one is then followed by a few blokes underneath a Hungry Horse sign (NOPM FOR A FRY-UP!), bugger all people on the hill for Sheff Utd, sod all people outside the council house, and three men and a McChicken Sandwich outside SISU's headquarters.

Every now and again there's a fleeting moment of success, something that momentum can be built on - the first march was one, the Arsenal effort was another... unfortunately it then gets reduced to shouty bllocks straight after so all momentum is lost, and the large middle ground of passive concerned onlookers are turned off even trying to show they care!

I agree with you we ultimately won't change certain decisions (is why I think the split into NOPM and scab Sixfield Scum is particularly unhelpful) but there can be other aims, that set us up to be as strong as possible once the game moves on elsewhere.

But there's an absence of pressure, full-stop, so nobody needs to justify themselves.

I admire your positivety. I felt inspired walking through the city centre and all the sky blue ribbons the other day, not because I think it will achieve anything but because it reminds me that people care. And if I genuinely believed that 999 other people would turn up outside FL HQ to be heard, I would b there!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

And if I genuinely believed that 999 other people would turn up outside FL HQ to be heard, I would b there!

And this is why things like the coming march are important. I'm with you, I'd be down the football league too... as long as I could be reassured it wasn't just the two of us! Nowt personal but we wouldn't a protest make.

Numbers equals visibility, and pricks consciences in some sense. I'm not convinced a repeat march would be anything other than yesterday's news (don't overdo ideas) but I will do my utmost to be there, as the messag being emphasised is non partisan, and despite everything... I do care, and it's important it's a success in terms of the numbers.

Why, after all, should anybody even try to have a football club in the city, if the message given out is apathy?

 

[Neutral Fan]

Good point. They are a Premiership team though and that matters. A lot. Imagine if Liverpool or Utd were moved. Wouldn't be allowed, would it? Little old Cov though? Shame. Tut, tut, etc etc. I think a few Hull ST holders voted for it, didn't they?

Personally, I believe all the press articles and bad publicity and journalists tut tutting regarding our situation won't change a thing. Only SISU and CCC can make a difference.

They are a Premier League team, not premiership.

 

[TurkeyTrot]

And this is why things like the coming march are important. I'm with you, I'd be down the football league too... as long as I could be reassured it wasn't just the two of us! Nowt personal but we wouldn't a protest make.

Numbers equals visibility, and pricks consciences in some sense. I'm not convinced a repeat march would be anything other than yesterday's news (don't overdo ideas) but I will do my utmost to be there, as the messag being emphasised is non partisan, and despite everything... I do care, and it's important it's a success in terms of the numbers.

Why, after all, should anybody even try to have a football club in the city, if the message given out is apathy?

Northern, the problem with your post is that if everyone thought like that then everyone would stay at home and nothing would be achieved as far as making a statement. Lest year we honestly didn't have a clue how many would turn up. None of us did, we thought maybe a couple of hundred Max. The very first time details of the march was posted on this site a certain poster claimed that "one man and his dog" would turn up (he promptly vanished from the site for a while afterwards) folk that sit on their backsides and do nothing love the numbers game and will make them up to suit. Yesterday was a great example. 30 to 35 turned up. I don't agree with them one little bit and the fact is the turn out was pretty poor but I respect them, every last one of them for making an effort and putting themselves in the firing line for criticism for what they believe is either a right cause or to find out more info. Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith and just hope that the work you put in, in what you're trying to achieve hit a nerve with folk and it works. I've been to the FL office only once, probably 40 to 50 folk attended. I've been on the hill a few times, most 139, least around 30 to 40 probably. I don't agree with everything the majority of the City fans want but I'm prepared to put a bit of time and effort into achieving what most fans want as a bare minimum.

 

[Snozz_is_god]

Why would it? What evidence is there apart from "well, it would, wouldn't it" statements from those such as yourselves? I presume that as long as the fixtures are completed then why would they care?

No evidence that it wouldn't either, so as 90% stay away, it would be easier to get the 10% to do the right thing and stay away for one game and find out.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Northern, the problem with your post is that if everyone thought like that then everyone would stay at home and nothing would be achieved as far as making a statement.

Indeed. But then it's the track record that needs changing, and the thought that goes into it, isn't it?

Take last season and the Sheff Utd game. Didn't work out in terms of numbers as hoped, did it? So then you have to work against that perception from then on, there's inertia to get over.

Here's a chance to get over that inertia, coming up.

And a scattergun approach to protests is maybe not the best. An ordered, specific structure where things are in place for months down the line and can build up to them would maximise the chances of people turning out...

Now that's not the same as disrespecting those who were outside the council house, or those who go on the hill week in, week out. But... sometimes the well-intentioned thing may be fine, but it'd be useful to step back and not rush in hoping to catch something in a spray of bullets. The absolute worst thing that could happen in the immediate future, is because the candidate standing in the council elections seems a rushed and hastily put together idea, sod all people vote for them. If that happens, where's the mandate to do anything other than ignore the club and redevelop the Ricoh for something else? Now you may say take a leap of faith, but I'd also say only take the leap of faith if there's time to plan it properly. I appreciate that's a fine and subjective line, and I'm maybe over-cautious as a rule anyway, but that campaign and others needs time to build towards it, and inspire confidence.

Nor does that make me always right Was convinced the Arsenal effort would be a damp squib, but it wasn't.

And yes, bog all people may turn out to this season's march. However, it's had more npotice than most thing, and it's been careful to plough a message most can get behind. I'd say that maximises its chances, and makes it worth backing as a leap of faith.

And if it goes well... future events become easier.

Does your post hint you'd like some help organising something to do with the football league, btw? I reckon if some kind of plan for the start of next season was in place to be launched after this march is out the way, it'd stand a chance...

 

[TurkeyTrot]

No evidence that it wouldn't either, so as 90% stay away, it would be easier to get the 10% to do the right thing and stay away for one game and find out.

This is why fan unity will never be achieved. We all have an opinion and won't budge on it. 90% of fans won't go to six fields. (Don't know if it is 90%) some of the 90% think it's wrong even to go on the hill. Then we have NOPM and those against the football league and only do away games. Thinking outside the box, maybe to really put pressure on the FL (which will only happen if the other members (chairmen of other clubs) kick off. ) we fill sixfields every game to maximise fair play monies and we boycott all the away games so our rivals lose money.

See, counter arguments are easy to come up with!

 

[TurkeyTrot]

Indeed. But then it's the track record that needs changing, and the thought that goes into it, isn't it?

Take last season and the Sheff Utd game. Didn;t work out in terms of numbers as hoped, did it? So then you have to work against that perception from then on, there's inertia to get over.

Here's a chance to get over that inertia, coming up.

And a scattergun approach to protests is maybe not the best. An ordered, specific structure where things are in place for months down the line and can build up to them would maximise the chances of people turning out...

Now that's not the same as disrespecting those who were outside the council house, or those who go on the hill week in, week out. But... sometimes the well-intentioned thing may be fine, but it'd be useful to step back and not rush in hoping to catch something in a spray of bullets. The absolute worst thing that could happen in the immediate future, is because the candidate standing in the council elections seems a rushed and hastily put together idea, sod all people vote for them. If that happens, where's the mandate? Now you may say take a leap of faith, but I'd also say only take the leap of faith if there's time to plan it properly. I appreciate that'sa fine and subjective line, but that campaign and others needs time to build towards it, and inspire confidence.

Nor does that make me always right Was convinced the Arsenal effort would be a damp squib, but it wasn't.

And yes, bog all people may turn out to this season's march. However, it's had more npotice than most thing, and it's been careful to plough a message most can get behind. I'd say that maximises its chances, and makes it worth backing as a leap of faith.

And if it goes well... future events become easier.

Does your post hint you'd like some help organising something to do with the football league, btw? I reckon if some kind of plan for the start of next season was in place to be launched after this march is out the way, it'd stand a chance...

Let's see what happens for the march first I'm sorting out the bands and lady G (terrible job but someone has to do it) need to concentrate on that first and while I agree with you in the scatter gun approach it really takes a lot of hard work by a lot of people to put it together and not get drawn off at a tangent or another message or point. I'm not sure how some folk don't realise how much time and effort it takes to put something like the march together, I think Rob S and co will have learnt from he weekend. It's obvious (like last year) there will be calls for SISU out etc and maybe calls against the council and or ACL but I ain't gonna lose any sleep over that. It's about fans getting together as a body to show as many people who will listen that our situation is ludicrous. If it falls on it's arse it won't be for the want and will of a few people trying.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It's obvious (like last year) there will be calls for SISU out etc and maybe calls against the council and or ACL but I ain't gonna lose any sleep over that. It's about fans getting together as a body to show as many people who will listen that our situation is ludicrous. If it falls on it's arse it won't be for the want and will of a few people trying.

And you get a full like for that ;-)

And yes, certainly not suggesting it's easy - if it was easy we'd have masisve protests all over the place ;-)

At the same time in the context of this thread, it's as good a time as any to point out it's not that fan unity is futile, but we need to get over the hurdle that people think fan unity is futile.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why would it? What evidence is there apart from "well, it would, wouldn't it" statements from those such as yourselves? I presume that as long as the fixtures are completed then why would they care?

Indeed, that is the League's only concern. They cave at the first sign of legal action when it's CCFC but pull out all the stops to prevent Pompey being re-sold to their former owners.

They are about as unfit for purpose as the FA.

 

[TurkeyTrot]

I think we all need to step back before we can march forward together. Being antagonistic towards each other does not help our situation.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

I think we all need to step back before we can march forward together. Being antagonistic towards each other does not help our situation.

Not quite sure how to express this properly so i hope you get what I mean but I think the fan unity thing is a bit of a red herring in that the vast majority of fans are united and it is those at the extremes, the rival spin machines, and the media who for different reasons have sought to define fans as being divided between supporting acl or sisu, going to sixfields or not, etc etc. If that was true then when we were at the Earlsdon Festival one person would have come to the stall saying it's all acl's fault, the next would have said it's all sisu's fault, then another acl critic followed by a sisu critic and so on. It might have been interspersed with a 'sixfielder', 'hiller', 'boycotter' and all the other things that get chucked out around. But the Earlsdon Festival like every other event I've done simply isn't like that. I keep repeating the 'acl have questions to answer but sisu are primarily to blame etc' line because doing leafleting etc these last 2/3 months that's what you hear from an absolutely overwhelming majority of people.

 

[Hobo]

Nothing at all, the fans have no power to do anything in all of this.

It's attitudes like that that gives us the owners we have at football clubs, the officials we have running the game, then on a wider scale the politicians we have in office.

People change things, never forget that...if it's not you it will be someone else.

 

[torchomatic]

"The right thing"? That is why fan unity is impossible.

No evidence that it wouldn't either, so as 90% stay away, it would be easier to get the 10% to do the right thing and stay away for one game and find out.

 

[TurkeyTrot]

Not quite sure how to express this properly so i hope you get what I mean but I think the fan unity thing is a bit of a red herring in that the vast majority of fans are united and it is those at the extremes, the rival spin machines, and the media who for different reasons have sought to define fans as being divided between supporting acl or sisu, going to sixfields or not, etc etc. If that was true then when we were at the Earlsdon Festival one person would have come to the stall saying it's all acl's fault, the next would have said it's all sisu's fault, then another acl critic followed by a sisu critic and so on. It might have been interspersed with a 'sixfielder', 'hiller', 'boycotter' and all the other things that get chucked out around. But the Earlsdon Festival like every other event I've done simply isn't like that. I keep repeating the 'acl have questions to answer but sisu are primarily to blame etc' line because doing leafleting etc these last 2/3 months that's what you hear from an absolutely overwhelming majority of people.

Think what I'm trying to say is that 1500 to 2000 city fans do attend sixfields, they are City fans and I'm sure the majority want to be back in Cov (and or Ricoh) that unites pretty much all of us. That's what we should be taking a step back for. Lose the labels.

 

[blend]

I think we all need to step back before we can march forward together. Being antagonistic towards each other does not help our situation.

This is the other side of things isn't it, what does being divided bring to us as fans. There are a number of fans sick to the back teeth of all the bickering, this will only serve to push some of them away from the club whether temporarily or for good. Unity may help keep us together.

 

[ccfcway]

I don't support any of them either, but it only seems to be our owners who keep talking about 'announcing things shortly' and '3 weeks' etc. to be fair.

what is it with you and "3 weeks"

 

[TurkeyTrot]

This is the other side of things isn't it, what does being divided bring to us as fans. There are a number of fans sick to the back teeth of all the bickering, this will only serve to push some of them away from the club whether temporarily or for good. Unity may help keep us together.

You're right blend, when I see the bickering on these threads I just stop reading them and I'm sure I'm not alone. But each to his/ her own, what do I know. I do know I have no right to tell folk how to conduct themselves and nor would I want to

 

[MichaelCCFC]

You're right blend, when I see the bickering on these threads I just stop reading them and I'm sure I'm not alone. But each to his/ her own, what do I know. I do know I have no right to tell folk how to conduct themselves and nor would I want to

I knew I wasn't explaining it very well. What I'm trying to get at is on here it's all argument and division, the media regularly talk about division but with all those people who came to the stall on Monday there was no division or arguing at all and that's what I constantly experience. I'd also say that in the 'real world' there is no division between people who do/don't go to sixfields. I know plenty of people who've been but are every bit as opposed to playing there an anyone else is. I'm actually really proud of how City fans have handled themselves. Apart from tiny minorities at the extremes the vast majority are not divided. Look at the way people behave at away games. Apart from a bit of verbals at Preston I don't think there's been a cross word and certainly never a punch thrown. Some people make it sound like everyone's at each others throats but that just isn't true - apart from on here perhaps!

 

[TurkeyTrot]

I knew I wasn't explaining it very well. What I'm trying to get at is on here it's all argument and division, the media regularly talk about division but with all those people who came to the stall on Monday there was no division or arguing at all and that's what I constantly experience. I'd also say that in the 'real world' there is no division between people who do/don't go to sixfields. I know plenty of people who've been but are every bit as opposed to playing there an anyone else is. I'm actually really proud of how City fans have handled themselves. Apart from tiny minorities at the extremes the vast majority are not divided. Look at the way people behave at away games. Apart from a bit of verbals at Preston I don't think there's been a cross word and certainly never a punch thrown. Some people make it sound like everyone's at each others throats but that just isn't true - apart from on here perhaps!

Yeah, got the same feeling on the day as you did Michael. But ultimately, this is only a message board and people can be whoever they want to be. I'm sure most, if not all of us are rather more reserved in "real life"
Broken Hearted and let's all sing together aside

 

[Nick]

I knew I wasn't explaining it very well. What I'm trying to get at is on here it's all argument and division, the media regularly talk about division but with all those people who came to the stall on Monday there was no division or arguing at all and that's what I constantly experience. I'd also say that in the 'real world' there is no division between people who do/don't go to sixfields. I know plenty of people who've been but are every bit as opposed to playing there an anyone else is. I'm actually really proud of how City fans have handled themselves. Apart from tiny minorities at the extremes the vast majority are not divided. Look at the way people behave at away games. Apart from a bit of verbals at Preston I don't think there's been a cross word and certainly never a punch thrown. Some people make it sound like everyone's at each others throats but that just isn't true - apart from on here perhaps!

I agree, the fans aren't all at each others throats this is why I thought that any event / protest should be a "fun" day, not a celebration as there is nothing to celebrate but it should be something to bring everybody together.

There will always be a group shouting SISU out, unhappy with the council but make the atmosphere just about city fans, make city fans realise it isn't about SISU or ACL but about US! If people go somewhere expecting to change the world they will get pissed off and angry.

Just need a massive sky blue party and hopefully the march will be that! Look at how that Arsenal half time video went, it was loads of people having a beer and just being happy and having a good time.

 

[skybluefred]

What it would do is bring on the demise of our club which would most likely be wound-up, we'd no longer exist! THEN YOU WOULD HAVE SOMETHING TO MOAN & COMPLAIN ABOUT, would'nt you?

What you fail to understand is that 90% of our fans have given up on the Club until it returns to COVENTRY. If it gets wound up we start again--Coventry
will never die.

 

[skybluefred]

6 miles last month, 9 miles this.

By the end of the year it might still just be in the UK.

I heard form a close friend who's contact at CCFC reckons Jersey or the Isle of Man are strong candidates for the new Stadium. I did have to do a bit of Fishing
to get this info so don't tell anybody else.

 

[Astute]

The Isle of Man would do me great. Can see it from where I live on a very clear day. Could travel to home games by boat. Would become a fair weather supporter though.