I agree .
The main area of Crossover and I don't really mean that unless City were Prem will be among the business community IMO.
Exit stratergy (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tonylinc
- Start date
I agree .
The main area of Crossover and I don't really mean that unless City were Prem will be among the business community IMO.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
I agree with business / corporate and I believe that SOME young / casual fans would go to watch top quality Rugby if CCFC were no more. The question is would those revenue streams exceed the rent and add ons from CCFC.
500 fans (5% for the sake of argument - not a mad thought) switching and £50k from corporate per year is all it may take.
I'm sure there is some study correlating the revenue for Cities which have top Rugby clubs and the effect on the football clubs but I have no desire to look.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
It would really shock me if the University got into bed with Sisu and they would have to in that area as they own all of the land.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Seems to me that SISU only have one strategy. Distress our land lords. I dont think they'll go as far as a rent strike again but the continued talk of a new stadium must be making them think about the viability of their new investment without the local football team.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Which is why you could throw in extra facilities for the university into the deal, make the place a real community hub rather than just a football ground. Problem is I suspect we are putting more thought into this than SISU are at the minute.
Philosorapter
Well-Known Member
There is no way anyone is going to buy the club until the debt is removed.
Why should they pay for the mistakes of the previous regime.
Why should they pay for the mistakes of the previous regime.
Samo
Well-Known Member
Take a day off Tony FFS
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Exit strategy?
What do you do with a rabbit that's just been ran over and hasn't died but serverly disabled and hurt by the car crash? Answer is you take the rabbit behind the barn and you pull the trigger.
Quite possibly this is the best analogy ever.
What do you do with a rabbit that's just been ran over and hasn't died but serverly disabled and hurt by the car crash? Answer is you take the rabbit behind the barn and you pull the trigger.
Quite possibly this is the best analogy ever.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
I am sure that any extra facilities that Sisu could offer the university could build/buy from their large reserves of cash, but I do agree the fans seem to have been putting far more thought into things at the moment than our clueless owners.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
But is it really an asset Tim Fisher himself said that the ground(Ricoh) is only bricks and mortar therefore not really worth a lot, why should the new ground then be worth anything?
Build it for 20-30 million and then sell the club for 10 million :thinking about:
Astute
Well-Known Member
Get the Uni to build a stadium for us. They would get free/cheap tickets. Share of matchday income. Free sponsorship. Cheap rent.
SISU then could stop paying the rent. Threaten to take our club out of Coventry. Start a JR on where the funding came from. Make the stadium a 'white elephant' that nobody else would be interested in. Tie the Uni up in so much litigation that they would be happy to sell cheaply just to stop the waste of time and money whilst SISU batter them in court.
Why can't SISU come up with a plan like this?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
A bit cynical there Astute. Reality is that this is the real rock and hard place scenario for which I think there is no easy answer but there's no harm in trying to come up with one. Negotiation with Wasps is highly unlikely to see us get all the revenue we generate but I agree is worth a go. If we don't get it then the best long term solution surely does have to be owning our own ground.
Senior Vick from Alicante
Well-Known Member
Sisu do not have an exit strategy. You will be able to judge the next stage from the end of the transfer window, if they are genuine about giving it a go and 9 go out and 7 come in that are permanent signings you will have your answer. The sad thing for me is I don't think Elvis will get what he wishes for as my personal opinion is the same as I have read in other posts. Otium will have ring fenced the club as an internal toxic debt, it will have to survive or die on its own with no more cash injections. If it dies it dies, the losses can be offset against profits so as all the cash being spent is paper money the net real effect for Otium/Sisu is they make more money back in other funds. The only other exit is to sell with an agreement for modest returns on success over the next 10 or 15 years, I doubt that's a real option though as they are greedy and sharp and the return would not be quick enough. Forget the building of a new stadium, the owners don't have a pot to piss in as far as the club is concerned. They know that their is not a cat in hells chance of doing what they want to do as the money/investment is not their. My club is in its death rolls on and off the pitch and no one wants to give it CPR, why would you if you could by it from the liquidator for a song. The problem is Fisher is quite happy for it to bob along, he is not bothered by relegation either he is a Banker not a football man. If I was Richardson I would sit and wait for it to all impload, Wasps seem to have it right on and most definitely off the pitch. Pick city up cheaply and it helps build the business as a whole, they could always sell it in the future if success starts to get to expensive.
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
Some of our fans need to wake up and smell the coffee. Forget any deal with Warwick Uni - they are a first rate Uni, a middle class academic institute in the city of coventry which carries the name of town miles away, their students live in Leamington or an campus. The closest they come to Cov is the train back to the home counties. Do you think they want 10,000 football fans anywhere near their campus ? and do you think with SISU's track record the Uni would ever consider a business venture - WASPS possibly but us no chance.
CCC would struggle to justify spending ratepayers money on the necessary infrastructure charges roads etc.. on a new stadium in the city especially with the Ricoh being available but I've fallen into the trap again talking about the fisher fantasy bowl - it isn't happening - a stadium requires at least £20m of investment without any immediate return.
Exit strategy - there is no strategy post WASPS getting the Ricoh
CCC would struggle to justify spending ratepayers money on the necessary infrastructure charges roads etc.. on a new stadium in the city especially with the Ricoh being available but I've fallen into the trap again talking about the fisher fantasy bowl - it isn't happening - a stadium requires at least £20m of investment without any immediate return.
Exit strategy - there is no strategy post WASPS getting the Ricoh
Samo
Well-Known Member
So you think they'll aimlessly tread water for 10 years or so?
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
Possibly get it cash neutral (which I think they have achieved) hope that a billionaire comes in but to sell now / or give it away would mean that they would have to recognise the huge losses in their financial accounts and that could impact on their reputation.
I think as another poster said January transfer window will show us whether they have any short term strategy,
Samo
Well-Known Member
Well I suppose if the club are not losing money the pressure to act is diminished. But I do think they will eventually have to have a go or throw the towel in.
You'd have to assume the fifty odd Million alleged Initial Investment Is sitting as a Tax vehicle .
Is It possible to shift the club and somehow leave that sitting, although there Is and would be accepted by them ,no means to recover
that ?
Doubt It tbf,they've accepted It's gone .
So they keep telling us they're here long term ,maybe they are, current ARVO Investment circa £15M attracting £1.5M interest per an
financed through player sales .
Next season will be more challenging as Turnover will drop without a Wilson style fee, or selling Haynes and Maddison combined for similar
money ,Unlikely IMO.
Therefore a long term model for ARVO would Involve another relegation and as SP says a team of Cov Kids on the conveyor for a third of
this years budget all conveniently seeking to better themselves at a higher level .
The only threat to that would be ARVO seeking a pay down of loan besides the Interest taking requiring 3 nuggets a season to be sold IMO.
I don't see them calling It In as long as they get their hefty Interest .
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Astute
Well-Known Member
Yes we could do with all of the match day revenue. There is a deal to be done if they can stop playing silly buggers. Wasps will want income from CCFC. Rent for starters. Then negotiate the rest. Wasps moved because of their rent going up. They have first hand experience of paying a high rent.
The SISU plan seems to have been a mini Ricoh. But supermarkets have stopped building big stores. They admitted that they needed to lend money. Would anyone here lend them their savings? Who would risk building a stadium for them? They would want the cash up front. Not do it to rent to them for sure. Yet they keep up with the new stadium crap.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
I guess only if what you build adds more value than the debt you create but as Fisher is in charge of the project that will never happen.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
more "continue to sink" as opposed to "tredding water"
Samo
Well-Known Member
And that, in your judgement, is the business plan of a hard nosed hedge fund?
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
i have yet to see their business plan, thats a major part of the prolem, the fans dont know what on earth they are planning on doing.
However, i have seen a pic of a stadium some months ago
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Tim told us at his last meeting that the investors were in place.
Could he be right for the first time?
Only time will tell.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
Tim told us we were 3 weeks away. Tim told us we wouldnt go back to the Rioch.
Tim tells us a lot of things....
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Astute, how does paying Wasps rent and a share of the revenues that *we* generate pave the way for a successful future? It will hold us back just like the years of renting and no access did under CCC/Higgs. Totally get that a new stadium is as likely to materialise under these owners as Pressley having a shave, but in the real long term, surely a new ground is preferable?
Samo
Well-Known Member
This is this crux of it, I hear it all the time on here, over and over again, several times on this thread alone... They have no plan! Do you really believe a London hedge fund has no plan? It may be plan C, it may be a plan you have no faith in, but do you really believe they have NO plan? That these organisations don't plan? It may change, it may react but there is a plan. I'd love to know what it is.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
i'd suggest it somewhere South of "plan C"
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Their main plan for the last 2.5 years, distress ACL so as to acquire it on the cheap, has gone tits up. The plan before that, get CCFC promoted to the PL and sell on at a profit, took 4.5 years and also went tits up. Maybe they are planning something which can fail in 1 year or less?
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
So does the new ground come rent free and maintenance free?
Who will get all that money?
Who will pay the mortgage?
I don't see there being much difference really except maybe lower crowds to try and pay it all off.
Too late with that one has well, heard that Coventry United are going to ground share with them next season, and maybe next year they will only be 5 divisions apart.COV UNITED top of their League PUCU
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
But this continues to be cloud-cuckoo land thinking. You seem to think that the club has a per se right to 'revenues' without properly covering the overhead - whatever it is - that gives them the platform to generate those incomes. The need to either rent, or build afresh; in which case there are funding/investments costs to cover. Where does £20/30 million come from for a new stadium? What are the capital repayments on that? Who's stumping up that cash and expecting what return?
If you look at a 'reasonable' term for a project of the size of this; there's no way you come back to a sum of less than £1 - 1.5m per annum to cover costs and repayment on build. And what revenues can be secured to cover this? Against local competition from the NEC/Ricoh/etc? And all this against the backdrop of a constant spiralling downward trend of prominence and customer base for the football club. I was reading an article reporting the visions of Nick Watkins, CEO of Swindon recently, and his aspiration to build non-football related income from £750K to £1m. If we agree we are a similarly sized club; what you're talking is spending money to build anew to generate an income that's less than the potential cost.
For my money, SISU has to negotiate the best possible deal with Wasps, and engage again with the fan base they have alienated - therefore building again their traditional incomes. And that comes from candid, honest interaction with fans, so stop this charade about new stadiums, and cease this poisonous litigation that's doing us no good. For every c.3K fans they can attract back; there's £1m income directly into the coffers. Until they can conjure a better plan - that's where I'd start
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MichaelCCFC
New Member
I've already posted this on a different thread but I think the question to ask is why would sisu leave? They are not incurring further losses, they get an occasional windfall from selling young players and are no longer under any pressure from protests, questions in parliament, national media stories etc, and no one is going to offer more than a token payment to buy the club. So why would they walk away from something that incurs no losses and gets an occasional windfall - it's easy money!
