Embarrassing (3 Viewers)

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bigfatronssba

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
rob9872 said:
Way too far. They should be put in the bin, tell them you disagree, tell them not to use the club crest, but their right to hold that opinion is as valid as yours mine or anyone else's.
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Personally I don’t think politics has any place in a football ground.

We’re all supposed to be on the same side in a football crowd. I don’t understand the desire to break that unity by introducing politics into it
 
SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Maybe you just are human and do the same things all the other humans do but view them through a left right lens because you spend too much time consuming political content online?
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Maybe being labelled far right by people like you and our government, even though my political views are clearly centre, makes me view things that way?
 
biggymania

biggymania

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Reform are a far right party by any sensible definition of the word. Their popularity doesn’t change that.

I couldn’t care less what the personal politics leading someone to vote for a far right party is the result is the same as if they were true believers.
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I guess my fear is that by voters not understanding the motivations behind people voting for Reform (or any party) makes the debate more polarised and ensures their success.
 
rob9872

rob9872

Well-Known Member
torchomatic said:
I suppose when **some** Reform voters stop saying and doing far right things then it will stop. And, TBH, a good few of them are pretty close to NF, EDL and BF in attitude.
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Again respectfully disagree. A good number yes, but a small percentage of their voters. Do uou hear the 1000 who boo the national anthem at a football game or the 20000 that don't as an example. There are waves of people at least threatening to vote Reform if social media us a true barometer. Whether they follow through on that time will tell, but ur must be a concern. So many disillusioned with main stream parties.
 
bigfatronssba

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
How is Reform like The Conservatives under Major?
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Actually on economics Reform are far more left wing than John Major.

On social issues, John Major, as useless as he was, would’ve ended up sending the Navy out into the channel if the boats had been happening then
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
What bubble were you in last year after Southport? There were riots up and down the country.

Where’s the evidence for your view then? I could turn that back around on you, the people you speak to are probably just as naive as you are.

Things are much more edgy now than they were last year.
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You’re doing the classic fringe politics thing of thinking a protest means huge nationwide support. Welcome to the left!

Here’s what people thought of the Southport riots va this year’s protests:

yougov.co.uk

How does the public’s reaction to the 2024 riots compare to those in 2011? | YouGov

Fewer Britons say riots are being handled well than in 2011, and there is greater leniency towards the rioters
yougov.co.uk yougov.co.uk



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three quarters of people wanted the police to use water cannons on them.

Most people wanted a custodial sentence apart from Reform voters (your bubble?) but even then the vast majority supported prosecution

IMG_4719.jpeg
 
bigfatronssba

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
You’re doing the classic fringe politics thing of thinking a protest means huge nationwide support. Welcome to the left!

Here’s what people thought of the Southport riots va this year’s protests:

yougov.co.uk

How does the public’s reaction to the 2024 riots compare to those in 2011? | YouGov

Fewer Britons say riots are being handled well than in 2011, and there is greater leniency towards the rioters
yougov.co.uk yougov.co.uk



View attachment 45273

three quarters of people wanted the police to use water cannons on them.

Most people wanted a custodial sentence apart from Reform voters (your bubble?) but even then the vast majority supported prosecution

View attachment 45274
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Now ask people if someone should be sent to prison for shouting, as in the case of Peter Lynch
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
rob9872 said:
Again respectfully disagree. A good number yes, but a small percentage of their voters. Do uou hear the 1000 who boo the national anthem at a football game or the 20000 that don't as an example. There are waves of people at least threatening to vote Reform if social media us a true barometer. Whether they follow through on that time will tell, but ur must be a concern. So many disillusioned with main stream parties.
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Well, if I was disillusioned with main the stream parties I just wouldn't vote, I wouldn't vote Reform or any other extremist party. I think to vote Reform you must have a certain attitude anyway, whether you have voted for them - or similar in the past. Same with voters of any political hue or persuasion.
 
N

nunchuckas

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
Just because someone is ‘uneducated’ does not make them thick. They are very different.

A lot of reform voters will come from very working class backgrounds, such as construction etc so will not necessarily need to be educated. I am highly educated and have met builders much more intelligent than me. It’s a lazy argument.

As I have said, I’m very much in the centre. I do not like Reform for what it’s worth. That said, it’s is incredibly naive to think this country does not have an issue with immigration. It clearly does and it is not going to go away. How this is resolved isn’t on me, I’m not a politician. But the immigration system needs to be reformed.

We as a country are at a tipping point and my fear is the next Southport style attack, or terrorist attack will tip it over the edge. Having these views would be seen as far right in your eyes?
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I know it doesn't make them thick, I said it's more likely that they will be. Being educated isn't the be all and end all, there's some very astute people who have had little education, and some absolute wallys who have been to Oxbridge. But it is more likely to be the other way round, on the balance of probabilities. That's why it's best to acknowledge the overall trends, but still take people at face value. Then when they fail to even make an argument, feel free to make your own assumptions!

The issue this country has with immigration is, ultimately, down to declining birth rates with UK nationals (this is happening in many western countries). For an extremely capitalist country, this isn't good for the billionaires and the establishment to keep making money by exploiting an expanding population, keeping the economy going and doing the undesirable jobs. Ironically, the boat situation was exacerbated by Brexit - instead of there being a legitimate route for the economy to source skilled labour, we now have to import our 'population growth' through other means. This is a serious own goal for anyone who voted Brexit to 'keep forinners out' because now the establishment need to get 'even worse forinners in'. No political party will be brave enough in the current climate to set up a formal way for people to come to the country. So they weaponise immigrants and the boats etc. while pretending that they want to stop them.

Ironically, the extreme capitalists and the likes of the people who are funding Farage, are the people who need the population to not decline the most. Who/how/why they do it, is all just a little political game to keep the peasants distracted while they cream us all for billions.
 
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David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
bigfatronssba said:
Now ask people if someone should be sent to prison for shouting, as in the case of Peter Lynch
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He pled guilty to inciting racial hatred at protest where people tried to burn down a hotel full of people.

Yeah most people will think he deserved to go to jail.
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Ah just googled. The man plead guilty to violent disorder. Perhaps your media diet needs some work?
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I see that Lucy Connelly is the latest darling of the right. Totally innocent apparently and jailed because of our two-tier policing system.
 
bigfatronssba

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Ah just googled. The man plead guilty to violent disorder. Perhaps your media diet needs some work?
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Post office submasters pleaded guilty to theft.

Do you think the destruction of their lives was justified?
 
bigfatronssba

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
torchomatic said:
I see that Lucy Connelly is the latest darling of the right. Totally innocent apparently and jailed because of our two-tier policing system.
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If you’re so confident we don’t have a two tier system, please justify this to me:
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David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
Do you believe Ricky Jones deserved to go to jail then?
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there's a big difference, one pled guilty and the other decided on going to a trial where a jury found him not guilty

what he said was disgusting but the situations are different
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
He pled guilty to inciting racial hatred at protest where people tried to burn down a hotel full of people.

Yeah most people will think he deserved to go to jail.
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Also apparently innocent is a guy who's been charged with violent disorder at the protests in Essex. He's 51, lives with his Mum and works for Waitrose. Not any longer he doesn't.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
bigfatronssba said:
Post office submasters pleaded guilty to theft.

Do you think the destruction of their lives was justified?
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I think comparing post office sub masters with people who went out and committed violent disorder is a bit of a stretch an a huge insult tbh.

Like it or not the British public are generally pro law and order, whatever the “cause” behind the disorder.
 
rob9872

rob9872

Well-Known Member
torchomatic said:
Well, if I was disillusioned with main the stream parties I just wouldn't vote, I wouldn't vote Reform or any other extremist party. I think to vote Reform you must have a certain attitude anyway, whether you have voted for them - or similar in the past. Same with voters of any political hue or persuasion.
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Well choosing not to vote is where I'm at and I don't like that either. Politically homeless and for the first time ever, as I put on the politics thread, I didnt vote in the recent round of local elections. When it comes to the GE I've always encouraged others and said you must vote even if I disagree with you or you don't have a voice. I'll most likely end up voting Conservative again, yet I'm as bad as my grandparents who were always too loyal to Labour as I don't really believe in them in any longer.
 
SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
there's a big difference, one pled guilty and the other decided on going to a trial where a jury found him not guilty

what he said was disgusting but the situations are different
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I agree there’s a difference.

But by your reckoning, he deserved jail regardless of how he plead? I would argue that being a important figure in your community, with significant influence and shouting for people to slit throats is much worse, imo
 
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