bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
It also coincided with a reduction in the amount of people coming in via the backs of trucks, so that must mean leaving the Dublin agreement was the right thing to do
May I politely suggest that you read up on the Dublin Regulation and why we had to leave it.
Leaving the the Dublin Regulation makes it more difficult to send boat arrivals back to France. It also means it doesn’t matter if they have already been granted asylum in an EU country they can still claim asylum in the UK.
It’s no coincidence that leaving the Dublin agreement has coincided with a massive rise in the trend of boat crossings and therefore arrivals.
Farage said that himself.What comes next if the next Government Labour/Tory or even Reform fail to resolve this will be bad.
The Romans were foreign invaders!Roman Britain carried on like that for about 100 years, till it had enough of foreign invaders raiding our wealth, and got the Anglo Saxons in.
Nothing works anymore. Anything run by the state is a joke
Civilisations don't collapse in a day.
What?Oh dear
The Romans were foreign invaders!
If you think swapping less than 10k a year for more than 30k a year was the right thing to do then I admire your charitable nature.It also coincided with a reduction in the amount of people coming in via the backs of trucks, so that must mean leaving the Dublin agreement was the right thing to do
Boudica Fiasco
May I politely suggest that you read up on the Dublin Regulation and why we had to leave it.
Leaving the the Dublin Regulation makes it more difficult to send boat arrivals back to France. It also means it doesn’t matter if they have already been granted asylum in an EU country they can still claim asylum in the UK.
It’s no coincidence that leaving the Dublin agreement has coincided with a massive rise in the trend of boat crossings and therefore arrivals.
Farage said that himself.
He said if he doesn't become PM, the left will regret it for decades. Because the alternative really will be a far right dictator (and actual far right, not just people who want the law enforced)
Sky Blue Tony spouts this as if this same issue isn’t tearing apart the political class in EU nations…This is another Brexit myth Tony. Have a look at the numbers. We were a net taker under Dublin agreement in some years and also only had 8% returns accepted in 2016
Bizarrely you could argue that returns have increased because we left (I wouldn’t though as it’s just cos the numbers have increased)
‘Around 34,000 people were returned from the UK in 2024 – the most since 2017, and 25% more than in 2023. Returns fell sharply in the second half of the 2010s, declined further during the pandemic, then began to partially recover. However, numbers remained lower than a decade before’
This is the latest
In 2024, under the Dublin Regulation, Germany (74 581) and France (30 986) reported the largest number of outgoing requests to other EU countries; the largest number of incoming requests was recorded by Italy (42 807), followed by Croatia (23 721), Greece (17 163) and Germany (14 977).
In 2024, Germany and France recorded the largest number of transfers following the Dublin procedure: Germany reported 5 827 outgoing and 4 591 incoming transfers, while France reported 2 624 outgoing and 2 201 incoming transfers.
So looking at Germany, still running at about 8% of outgoing requests granted and net, hardly worth the bother !
The number of crossings have increased because France haven’t made any effort to stop them, so unsurprisingly more people have tried !
People get called ‘hard left’ for much much less and it’s because the Overton window has shifted to the right in that time.When people call Farage “far right”, it’s a fundamental misuse of the term. By most historical standards, he’s just a typical 80/90s era-Tory and would’ve remained as such had he not been kicked out over his Brexiteer views.
The failure of the political class to address immigration has started to legitimise Tommy Robinson which is a concerning development. What hasn’t helped is the political left’s wide use of ‘far right’ and ‘racist’ that the terms have lost a lot of their power and meaning.
Roman Britain carried on like that for about 100 years, till it had enough of foreign invaders raiding our wealth, and got the Anglo Saxons in.
Nothing works anymore. Anything run by the state is a joke
Civilisations don't collapse in a day.
When people call Farage “far right”, it’s a fundamental misuse of the term. By most historical standards, he’s just a typical 80/90s era-Tory and would’ve remained as such had he not been kicked out over his Brexiteer views.
The failure of the political class to address immigration has started to legitimise Tommy Robinson which is a concerning development. What hasn’t helped is the political left’s wide use of ‘far right’ and ‘racist’ that the terms have lost a lot of their power and meaning.
So foreign invaders who stay long enough are ok?After 200 years they were occupiers rather than invaders. Also had the common sense to leave the rural Brit alone after the Boudica fiasco
It isn’t for one simple fact. The reason we were a net taker was a political decision made by the then government. Them choosing to not use the Dublin regulation is not a failure of the Dublin regulation. You can argue it’s a failure of government if you like because the simple fact is the government never fully utilised it.This is another Brexit myth Tony. Have a look at the numbers. We were a net taker under Dublin agreement in some years and also only had 8% returns accepted in 2016
Bizarrely you could argue that returns have increased because we left (I wouldn’t though as it’s just cos the numbers have increased)
‘Around 34,000 people were returned from the UK in 2024 – the most since 2017, and 25% more than in 2023. Returns fell sharply in the second half of the 2010s, declined further during the pandemic, then began to partially recover. However, numbers remained lower than a decade before’
This is the latest
In 2024, under the Dublin Regulation, Germany (74 581) and France (30 986) reported the largest number of outgoing requests to other EU countries; the largest number of incoming requests was recorded by Italy (42 807), followed by Croatia (23 721), Greece (17 163) and Germany (14 977).
In 2024, Germany and France recorded the largest number of transfers following the Dublin procedure: Germany reported 5 827 outgoing and 4 591 incoming transfers, while France reported 2 624 outgoing and 2 201 incoming transfers.
So looking at Germany, still running at about 8% of outgoing requests granted and net (1,200) , hardly worth the bother !
The number of crossings have increased because France haven’t made any effort to stop them, so unsurprisingly more people have tried !
People get called ‘hard left’ for much much less and it’s because the Overton window has shifted to the right in that time.
It’s just how I feel, whether it’s just my perception or not. The idea that it’s in fact shifted the other way when that fascist pig across the pond’s got elected I find pretty absurd also.Hmmm, in the last decade or so ?
Socially - LBGTQ rights, understanding and prominence far greater than it’s ever been
Migration - highest migration and loosest controls ever
Tax/welfare - increasing tax take from higher earners, increasing welfare bill. Throw in furlough as well
It was also the further left that wanted longer, harsher lockdowns during covid.
I agree that the very richest (corporate and personal) have benefitted from lax global tax regs but other than that I’d say it’s hard to argue Overton window has shifted right. I’d actually argue it’s gone the other way which has rightly or wrongly triggered some negative reactions in the post Covid period.
Social media has just continued to sow division on both sides though and why neither side want to acknowledge this ill never know….maybe is because people are stuck in their echo chambers so don’t even realise it’s happening
Agreed, that ‘hard left’ has been thrown around too much in the past.People get called ‘hard left’ for much much less and it’s because the Overton window has shifted to the right in that time.
It’s just how I feel, whether it’s just my perception or not. The idea that it’s in fact shifted the other way when that fascist pig across the pond’s got elected I find pretty absurd also.
There are no populist left leaders anywhere except Mexico from what I see, the rest are centre right, right or far right. Our own Starmer could perhaps be centre
It isn’t for one simple fact. The reason we were a net taker was a political decision made by the then government. Them choosing to not use the Dublin regulation is not a failure of the Dublin regulation. You can argue it’s a failure of government if you like because the simple fact is the government never fully utilised it.
Youve ignored the main point. That even though Germany put in 74k DR requests only 6k were granted and then they had 4.5k incomings granted. Net 1.5k.Whats the point ? I also said we used to try to use DR and last figure I saw was 8% granted.
Looking at the figures the argument that leaving the EU/Dublin regulation as a reason for increased migrant crossings/asylum attempts and inability to return far greater numbers, is frankly bollocks
The only Brexit link is France have probably made even less effort since
Blair and Brown were far more progressive. The former also had something called charisma while the latter had something called beliefs.Quite literally the most left wing PM of anyone in this threads lifetime and you get “maybe centre I guess“
Ma maybe it’s time to realise whatever it is you want you’re in a tiny minority wanting it.
What’s even more frustrating is Starmer to his credit has tried to make Brexit work and agreed a trade deal with the EU that cuts red tape and will eventually lead to lower costs…So what’s your alternate hypothesis? There was no appreciate jump in asylum seekers on boats (or any other asylum seekers) world wide. What was the event that you think made it jump here in 2020?
You keep saying “it’s bollocks” evidence free but Occams razor man. We have a massive change in border policy and a massive change in what’s happening at our borders at the exact same time and you want us to believe they aren’t linked. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I think it’s probably time people people stopped being so defensive of Brexit by reflex. It’s been almost a decade and it’s clearly not done anything claimed at best and seemingly made many of the issues people complained about in the lead up a lot worse.
Are we doing “there’s no room”? Got to love the classics.
I mean I just spent a week in Europe and everything seemed to work pretty good. The US is an absolute economic powerhouse. It’s a great time to be whatever sort of person you are.
I’m just not seeing this “fall of Rome” stuff you guys keep going on about.
It started in 2018 before Brexit.So what’s your alternate hypothesis? There was no appreciate jump in asylum seekers on boats (or any other asylum seekers) world wide. What was the event that you think made it jump here in 2020?
You keep saying “it’s bollocks” evidence free but Occams razor man. We have a massive change in border policy and a massive change in what’s happening at our borders at the exact same time and you want us to believe they aren’t linked. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I think it’s probably time people people stopped being so defensive of Brexit by reflex. It’s been almost a decade and it’s clearly not done anything claimed at best and seemingly made many of the issues people complained about in the lead up a lot worse.
So you’re basically saying that Germany would have had 6K more asylum seekers if it were not for the DR. You are also ignoring that Germany still prioritises DR as a route to returning asylum seekers because it’s success rate is high compared to other routes. 6K also won’t be the final figure for returns also as many appealed the decision so any lost appeal will be added to that number.Youve ignored the main point. That even though Germany put in 74k DR requests only 6k were granted and then they had 4.5k incomings granted. Net 1.5k.Whats the point ? I also said we used to try to use DR and last figure I saw was 8% granted.
Looking at the figures the argument that leaving the EU/Dublin regulation as a reason for increased migrant crossings/asylum attempts and inability to return far greater numbers, is frankly bollocks
The only Brexit link is France have probably made even less effort to stop crossings since
How do you think the transfer window is going mr ukip? Do you think we’ve got enough depth for the season ahead or we need a few CB’s?So you’re basically saying that Germany would have had 6K more asylum seekers if it were not for the DR. You are also ignoring that Germany still prioritises DR as a route to returning asylum seekers because it’s success rate is high compared to other routes. 6K also won’t be the final figure for returns also as many appealed the decision so any lost appeal will be added to that number.
We went from a position of having a route to return to having no route to return. You can’t really be suggesting that the latter is no worse than the former. If we could use the DR to return 8% of all boat crossings now it would work in more than one way. Not least because not having an agreement is a very easy sell for the smuggling gangs. If the government entered an agreement today that guaranteed 8% of all arrivals would be sent back we’d all take it in a heartbeat. Except reform and the Tories of course who would no doubt vote against it as they have Labours other initiatives to tackle the issue.
So what’s your alternate hypothesis? There was no appreciate jump in asylum seekers on boats (or any other asylum seekers) world wide. What was the event that you think made it jump here in 2020?
You keep saying “it’s bollocks” evidence free but Occams razor man. We have a massive change in border policy and a massive change in what’s happening at our borders at the exact same time and you want us to believe they aren’t linked. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I think it’s probably time people people stopped being so defensive of Brexit by reflex. It’s been almost a decade and it’s clearly not done anything claimed at best and seemingly made many of the issues people complained about in the lead up a lot worse.
Dom, I think you delete more posts on here than all the admins put together@Nick @Sick Boy why did the @Ashdown @Chicken Mcgraw and my reply get deleted? Weird how the admins are deleting stuff, are we always at risk of you lot randomly deleting stuff we post from now on?
Think @shmmeee had a hissy fit and cried to the admins about it, spouts all his shite on here then cries when someone makes a comment backDom, I think you delete more posts on here than all the admins put together
Do people actually think that immigrant housing could be fixed by woke people taking them in themselves? Could we not just get the right wingers to fire up the pedalos and stop the boats themselves instead?It's gone quiet
So you’re basically saying that Germany would have had 6K more asylum seekers if it were not for the DR. You are also ignoring that Germany still prioritises DR as a route to returning asylum seekers because it’s success rate is high compared to other routes. 6K also won’t be the final figure for returns also as many appealed the decision so any lost appeal will be added to that number.
We went from a position of having a route to return to having no route to return. You can’t really be suggesting that the latter is no worse than the former. If we could use the DR to return 8% of all boat crossings now it would work in more than one way. Not least because not having an agreement is a very easy sell for the smuggling gangs. If the government entered an agreement today that guaranteed 8% of all arrivals would be sent back we’d all take it in a heartbeat. Except reform and the Tories of course who would no doubt vote against it as they have Labours other initiatives to tackle the issue.
To be fair yes you have, I just thought you were getting bored of nobody bitingThink @shmmeee had a hissy fit and cried to the admins about it, spouts all his shite on here then cries when someone makes a comment back
I’m learning to be more measured so not doing it as much now
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