Ellis Simms (3 Viewers)

SBAndy · May 1, 2024

Clearly a far more rounded striker than the one that joined. I’d hope he sees that progress and thinks another year here is best for his career. However, again it comes back to the fact that if we got £15-20m to ‘go again’ it would need to be considered.

As an aside, can’t be arsed with this “we don’t follow a model do we ladz!!!!1” nonsense. Load of wibble.

djr8369 · May 1, 2024

False9 said:
Do I sit near you

Block 22?

False9 · May 1, 2024

djr8369 said:
Block 22?

21 so there must be many of these arseholes

fernandopartridge · May 1, 2024

SBAndy said:
Clearly a far more rounded striker than the one that joined. I’d hope he sees that progress and thinks another year here is best for his career. However, again it comes back to the fact that if we got £15-20m to ‘go again’ it would need to be considered.

As an aside, can’t be arsed with this “we don’t follow a model do we ladz!!!!1” nonsense. Load of wibble.

The same can be said for speculating over whether or not something will happen according to a perceived model.

Deleted member 9744 · May 1, 2024

Sick Boy said:
The idea that we’re somehow following the Brighton and Brentford model is just ridiculous.

I am worried that we are trying a cheap version of that model, and that it's going to lead to a slow decline over the next few years. I hope we will have a re-think in the summer and start being more flexible and pragmatic.

shmmeee · May 1, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
I am worried that we are trying a cheap version of that model, and that it's going to lead to a slow decline over the next few years. I hope we will have a re-think in the summer and start being more flexible and pragmatic.

Selling one player a year and buying 3-5 new ones isn’t going to lead to decline as long as the scouting can consistently find more gems than duds. Which so far it has.

The next trick is having succession planned so there’s not a rush to replace in the same window. If we play it right and get a young ST, RB, wide player in in case Wright/Simms/MvE/Saka/EMC is next summers sale then all those funds can go on improving elsewhere or stocking up more potential gems for when the next one goes.

Deleted member 9744 · May 1, 2024

shmmeee said:
Selling one player a year and buying 3-5 new ones isn’t going to lead to decline as long as the scouting can consistently find more gems than duds. Which so far it has.

The next trick is having succession planned so there’s not a rush to replace in the same window. If we play it right and get a young ST, RB, wide player in in case Wright/Simms/MvE/Saka/EMC is next summers sale then all those funds can go on improving elsewhere or stocking up more potential gems for when the next one goes.

I disagree. You end up always with inconsistency playing prospects rather than players at the top of their game.

I think Thomas and Kitching will be really good players but they will leave once they are for example. We'll have them while they are making mistakes regularly.

shmmeee · May 1, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
I disagree. You end up always with inconsistency playing prospects rather than players at the top of their game.

I think Thomas and Kitching will be really good players but they will leave once they are for example. We'll have them while they are making mistakes regularly.

We don’t have a squad with the quality or quantity where it needs to be. There’s no use having one or two stars and 9 makeweights in the side. The only way to build that out is big sales. These are players going on to a higher standard, even off their peak they’re among the best in the division. We need one more eight figure sale in my eyes to finish building out a squad that can challenge. If we’re smart with that we can plan ahead, but I’d expect the squad to be stronger if we sold sheaf and spent and extra ten million than if we didn’t. Just as it’s stronger now for selling Vik and Gus.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 2, 2024

Have to be at least £15-20m to consider it.

Whole point of this season was getting the players bedded in for a proper go next season, so ripping the spine out would make it a waste.

I think now he's finally settled in he could be an absolute beast next year and vital to any promotion challenge.

Deleted member 9744 · May 2, 2024

shmmeee said:
We don’t have a squad with the quality or quantity where it needs to be. There’s no use having one or two stars and 9 makeweights in the side. The only way to build that out is big sales. These are players going on to a higher standard, even off their peak they’re among the best in the division. We need one more eight figure sale in my eyes to finish building out a squad that can challenge. If we’re smart with that we can plan ahead, but I’d expect the squad to be stronger if we sold sheaf and spent and extra ten million than if we didn’t. Just as it’s stronger now for selling Vik and Gus.

But if the squad is stronger how come we ended up lower this season than last?

Liquid Gold · May 2, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
I disagree. You end up always with inconsistency playing prospects rather than players at the top of their game.

I think Thomas and Kitching will be really good players but they will leave once they are for example. We'll have them while they are making mistakes regularly.

We can't afford to buy players at the top of their game though so we have to develop them.

One way of attracting good projects is to agree not to stand in their way if they surpass the club and we can make a good profit on them.

We just have to get recruitment right and that's it really. Losing Hamer and Vik was a body blow but it built us a competitive squad. Move a couple of that squad on next summer and the rebuild would be smaller so the funds invested heavily in a couple of key positions.

That's the process you have to follow and hope it comes to fruition. The alternative is to go for it over a 2-3 year window but that means you're risking good players leaving for free as you don't sell them when at peak value and also the club racking up significant debts as you can't skim off the top of player sales to reduce running costs.

I'd prefer to do it more sustainably, even if that will sometimes feel like two steps forwards one step back, instead of risking us going back to the dark days of the club not having a pot to piss in and playing in front of 6k.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 2, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Have to be at least £15-20m to consider it.

Whole point of this season was getting the players bedded in for a proper go next season, so ripping the spine out would make it a waste.

I think now he's finally settled in he could be an absolute beast next year and vital to any promotion challenge.

15 to 20 million to consider? Yet a poor and weak captain in central midfield with no assists and almost no goals is going to fetch at least that or more? Our fans really make me laugh. Simms might have started slow this season, but he's clearly got something that would be sought after.

The fact people are nervous to quote a price that is lower than what we are hearing for an albeit good tackling but non-goal scoring, impotent-assist, weak captain. It makes me laugh. No surprises that those shouting abuse haven't taken me up on the charity bet.

PUSB-We_are_going_up · May 2, 2024

Minimum £25m to let him go, english, scores goals, 3 years left on his deal, and its to the prem

shmmeee · May 2, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
But if the squad is stronger how come we ended up lower this season than last?

Stronger league and cup run mostly. We’re not exactly a million miles away.

robbiekeane · May 2, 2024

Rate simms a lot but £20m and I’ll give him a lift

Brighton Sky Blue · May 2, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
I disagree. You end up always with inconsistency playing prospects rather than players at the top of their game.

I think Thomas and Kitching will be really good players but they will leave once they are for example. We'll have them while they are making mistakes regularly.

The point is to sign players who will already be at the standard you want when the player ahead of him is sold. So as opposed to going ‘oh shit we need a right back’, we have one ready made.

CCFCSteve · May 2, 2024

robbiekeane said:
Rate simms a lot but £20m and I’ll give him a lift

Another 20 goal a season and that would be a giveaway. Young, English strikers don’t grown on trees.

If he wanted to leave then fair enough but if not keep and develop his game more. Best for both parties

DrPoolittle · May 2, 2024

The latest alleged link is that Brentford and Bournemouth want Simms...

Part of the problem is that his heroics at Wembley - and arguably, the heroics of the team (and Robins) - will have gained extra profile.

That will generate speculation throughout the summer. It’s an additional complication because Robins will be trying to build a squad and trying to fend off unwanted interest.

Pointless demanding that King turns down offers because players are now more influential than ever and money talks.

One of most rewarding things is that we have two strikers both close to 20 goals in one season. That’s pretty impressive and I was certainly critical of Simms and Wright at the start of the season. All credit to the players and coaching staff but they aren’t the finished article yet.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 2, 2024

DrPoolittle said:
The latest alleged link is that Brentford and Bournemouth want Simms...

Part of the problem is that his heroics at Wembley - and arguably, the heroics of the team (and Robins) - will have gained extra profile.

That will generate speculation throughout the summer. It’s an additional complication because Robins will be trying to build a squad and trying to fend off unwanted interest.

Pointless demanding that King turns down offers because players are now more influential than ever and money talks.

One of most rewarding things is that we have two strikers both close to 20 goals in one season. That’s pretty impressive and I was certainly critical of Simms and Wright at the start of the season. All credit to the players and coaching staff but they aren’t the finished article yet.

Hope they can both reach that milestone on Saturday.

David O'Day · May 2, 2024

We are not selling Simms or Wright unless we get an absolutely stupidly big bid.

Neither player is looking to leave or is going to be agitate for a move.

FFS stop pissing the bed every time someone fills column inches linking a random club to one of our players.

Some of you folk will give yourselves a stroke the way you are going.

DrPoolittle · May 2, 2024

David O'Day said:
We are not selling Simms or Wright unless we get an absolutely stupidly big bid.

Neither player is looking to leave or is going to be agitate for a move.

FFS stop pissing the bed every time someone fills column inches linking a random club to one of our players.

Some of you folk will give yourselves a stroke the way you are going.

Some people get palpitations when Cov players leave

Northeast sky blue · May 2, 2024

DrPoolittle said:
Some people get palpitations when Cov players leave

I wouldn't lose any sleep if any of them were to leave, they're all replaceable, as long as we received a decent fee

Hobo · May 2, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
But if the squad is stronger how come we ended up lower this season than last?

Injuries, more fixtures due to cup run, new players bedding in, could all affect our league position despite having a more capable squad.

WestEndAgro · May 2, 2024

David O'Day said:
We are not selling Simms or Wright unless we get an absolutely stupidly big bid.

Neither player is looking to leave or is going to be agitate for a move.

FFS stop pissing the bed every time someone fills column inches linking a random club to one of our players.

Some of you folk will give yourselves a stroke the way you are going.

Not many I've been sad to lose over the past but several spring to mind

Gillespie
Gallagher
Dublin
Danny Thomas
Mark Hately
Vic
Speedie
Steve Hunt
Mortimer
Wallace

Not many considering I've been attending for over 50 years

Hobo · May 2, 2024

WestEndAgro said:
Not many I've been sad to lose over the past but several spring to mind

Gillespie
Gallagher
Dublin
Danny Thomas
Mark Hately
Vic
Speedie
Steve Hunt
Mortimer
Wallace

Not many considering I've been attending for over 50 years

Agree with those, plus, Hartson and Babb.

False9 · May 2, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
I am worried that we are trying a cheap version of that model, and that it's going to lead to a slow decline over the next few years. I hope we will have a re-think in the summer and start being more flexible and pragmatic.

I don't understand what the alternative 'model' is?

We have to sell players and reinvest wisely whilst funding the operating costs. There isn't a benefactor covering our losses.

What are these flexible and pragmatic alternatives? More loans?

thekidfromstrettoncamp · May 2, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
But if the squad is stronger how come we ended up lower this season than last?

The squad has been stronger this season but so has the rest of the league.The teams that came down were far more equipped to return to the premier league than in previous seasons.

Deleted member 9744 · May 2, 2024

False9 said:
I don't understand what the alternative 'model' is?

We have to sell players and reinvest wisely whilst funding the operating costs. There isn't a benefactor covering our losses.

What are these flexible and pragmatic alternatives? More loans?

According to the model purists on here you can't have loans, experienced leaders or players at the top of their career. According to them the squad has to be made up entirely of young prospects who have high potential sell on values, so that we improve in the long term.

I get these are the sorts of players we need to invest in. However, a truly successful team at this level also needs a balance of experience and the extra quality that loans from the Premier League bring, together with a number of established players at the height of their careers.

Bringing in prospects, developing them and making a profit is a big part of success but on its own it isn’t enough. You need a balanced squad to get promoted from this league.

biggymania · May 2, 2024

David O'Day said:
We are not selling Simms or Wright unless we get an absolutely stupidly big bid.

Neither player is looking to leave or is going to be agitate for a move.

FFS stop pissing the bed every time someone fills column inches linking a random club to one of our players.

Some of you folk will give yourselves a stroke the way you are going.

Honestly, football is just a mis-directed output for a bunch of untreated anxiety - I truly believe this the more absolutely terrible opinions I read. And I probably include some of my own in that!

biggymania · May 2, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
According to the model purists on here you can't have loans, experienced leaders or players at the top of their career. According to them the squad has to be made up entirely of young prospects who have high potential sell on values, so that we improve in the long term.

I get these are the sorts of players we need to invest in. However, a truly successful team at this level also needs a balance of experience and the extra quality that loans from the Premier League bring, together with a number of established players at the height of their careers.

Bringing in prospects, developing them and making a profit is a big part of success but on its own it isn’t enough. You need a balanced squad to get promoted from this league.

You're missing a key point here (I am not sure anybody has said "no loans", but lets ignore that) which is that each cycle of sales is levelling up the entire squad in that model. So you will reach a critical mass where you have a squad capable of promotion who haven't reach the peak of their value, because we've gotten a bigger and bigger transfer budget each time. We're only really one decent talent cycle into this model under this ownership, so perhaps just see how it plays out and then come back and point to this post.

DazzleTommyDazzle · May 2, 2024

Hobo said:
Agree with those, plus, Hartson and Babb.

And Keane

Deleted member 9744 · May 2, 2024

biggymania said:
You're missing a key point here (I am not sure anybody has said "no loans", but lets ignore that) which is that each cycle of sales is levelling up the entire squad in that model. So you will reach a critical mass where you have a squad capable of promotion who haven't reach the peak of their value, because we've gotten a bigger and bigger transfer budget each time. We're only really one decent talent cycle into this model under this ownership, so perhaps just see how it plays out and then come back and point to this post.

I am pretty sure that I understand your point and how you see the supposed model working. However, I am not convinced I see it working like that. Respectfully I am not sure you're understanding what I am saying though, but I think we should leave it there.

As it happens I do not believe that we will follow a rigid model, certainly not if Robins stays as manager, as I think he will insist on more experience, depth and quality in the squad next year.

As Sick Boy said I think this idea that we are doing a Brentford or Brighton is a bit of a nonsense.

Londonccfcfan · May 2, 2024

Sick Boy said:
If we end up selling him I’d start to feel pretty disillusioned.

I agree. EVERYONE has a price. The improvement in his touch, hold up play, leading the line has been incredible. Not to even mention his goals.

Woukd not surprise me if he bags a another couple vs QPR.

False9 · May 2, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
According to the model purists on here you can't have loans, experienced leaders or players at the top of their career. According to them the squad has to be made up entirely of young prospects who have high potential sell on values, so that we improve in the long term.

I get these are the sorts of players we need to invest in. However, a truly successful team at this level also needs a balance of experience and the extra quality that loans from the Premier League bring, together with a number of established players at the height of their careers.

Bringing in prospects, developing them and making a profit is a big part of success but on its own it isn’t enough. You need a balanced squad to get promoted from this league.

I think a sprinkling of quality via a loan makes sense and we might see more of that now we have an actual contracted squad. This season was all about transition and building solid foundations... Arguably we didn't do that in defence/goal but that was the idea.

I can't see how we attract championship players at the top of their game, they will always be out of reach to us.

Our average squad age is similar to most clubs and older than Leeds, Southampton so I'm not sure experience is the missing ingredient. Our experienced players underperformed this year - Godden, Wilson, Allen, Kelly, mcfadz , Palmer, JDS.

biggymania · May 2, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
I am pretty sure that I understand your point and how you see the supposed model working. However, I am not convinced I see it working like that. Respectfully I am not sure you're understanding what I am saying though, but I think we should leave it there.

Please take this in good faith because I want to understand where you're coming from. I think this season we have sold 2 key players and levelled up the squad with multiple 1M+ signings, most of whom will very likely be sold for more than we purchased them for. What is it that you don't see working - if we assume we repeat that with our current or future top talents?

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