EFL to end season this week - City likely to be promoted (13 Viewers)

Ccfcsj · May 28, 2020

Wirral Rover said:
It's one of those where if we do go down then so be it... That will be the formal decision, we all move on and get back to fighting for promotion back to League One. But if we do go down, we won't be going down without a fight!

Looking at the table and the remaining fixtures it does look like it would have been difficult for you to survive but, as you've said, based on previous seasons (and Coventry's experience over their history) not impossible.

It's a shame the EFL don't do 2 play offs - one for the final promotion place and a seperate one for yourselves and the 3 teams above for the final relegation place - a quick 4 team mini league where the bottom team after 3 games fills the final relegation spot. I'm sure the EFL could fund it and host it in a neutral location

skybluesam66 · May 28, 2020

Ccfcsj said:
Looking at the table and the remaining fixtures it does look like it would have been difficult for you to survive but, as you've said, based on previous seasons (and Coventry's experience over their history) not impossible.

It's a shame the EFL don't do 2 play offs - one for the final promotion place and a seperate one for yourselves and the 3 teams above for the final relegation place - a quick 4 team mini league where the bottom team after 3 games fills the final relegation spot. I'm sure the EFL could fund it and host it in a neutral location

disagree - but should do 3rd bottom with 4-6 in League 2 . So if Tranmere eg survive, then only 3 up etc
Can do for all divisions

Ccfcsj · May 28, 2020

skybluesam66 said:
disagree - but should do 3rd bottom with 4-6 in League 2 . So if Tranmere eg survive, then only 3 up etc
Can do for all divisions

Or this idea yes

Wirral Rover · May 28, 2020

Ccfcsj said:
Looking at the table and the remaining fixtures it does look like it would have been difficult for you to survive but, as you've said, based on previous seasons (and Coventry's experience over their history) not impossible.

It's a shame the EFL don't do 2 play offs - one for the final promotion place and a seperate one for yourselves and the 3 teams above for the final relegation place - a quick 4 team mini league where the bottom team after 3 games fills the final relegation spot. I'm sure the EFL could fund it and host it in a neutral location

You're right whilst we did have some easier games, we had a few tough ones but out of those teams left to play, we'd drawn already this season to Rotherham, Peterborough and Gillingham and lost extremely late on 2-1 to Fleetwood. Doncaster and Oxford tore us a new one to be fair, but with a newly gelled squad, you wouldn't write us off in those fixtures. The three games we won, all away, prior to the season being halted were against teams that we hadn't beaten earlier on in the season.

We'd obviously be all for some sort of relegation playoff. I think another thing that grates us is that the team in 7th in League 2 could effectively take our place after they've had the chance to win their promotion whilst ourselves would go down by 0.04 points without having that chance. Similarly the teams in the Premier League and Championship in the relegation places look like they're going to have a chance to fight for their survival. In terms of relegation it's ourselves and, to a lesser extent, Stevenage, who get shafted the most because there isn't any relegation in the leagues below League Two and the teams in the leagues above League One have the chance to get their way out of the situation they're currently in.

jordan210 · May 28, 2020

Doesn't look like we are going to know anything, anytime soon

Frostie · May 28, 2020

Wirral Rover said:
Hi all... Tranmere fan in peace (Genuinely!)

Firstly, and I know this is the case for every Tranmere fan I know, we hope you get promoted and deservedly so. Under any proposal that has been put forward, including our ones, you would be and I think it is safe to say that you will be. Given the tough times you've had recently regarding club ownership and stadium issues, you guys deserve it.

The reason for us putting up a fight is that under PPG, we would be relegated by 0.04 PPG. We had just won 3 on the bounce (not THE in form team but ONE OF the in form teams in the league), we had 4 teams directly above us in our next games, we were 3 points behind AFC Wimbledon and we had a game in hand. Other info that you guys may not realise (and why should you... you don't support TRFC!) is that we invested in January and had a squad that was now just starting to gel. We have just had two promotions on the spin and adjusting to life in League One was always going to be hard. Trust me there is a huge gap between playing North Ferriby and Coventry! It was always the plan to start off the season, assess in January, then add some transfers in Jan. Coupled with that we had a decent Cup run which involved replays creating a lot of fixtures in that busy Winter period.

I get that the League table doesn't lie. After 34/35 games we deserve to be in the bottom 3. However teams constantly make come backs late on in the season. You just have to look at last season... 3 of the bottom 4 at this stage didn't get relegated with the teams in 15th, 16th and 18th going down. Wimbledon made up a 7 point gap and Oxford went on their best run of the season. Momentum is everything at the latter stages... Less so at the top because you're there as you've played excellent footy all season but it really kicks in for a team near the bottom. Now of course there is no guarantee at all that after 44 games we would have stayed up. But there is also no guarantee that we would go down. Is 0.04 points really fair on a team to drop down a division due to a worldwide pandemic? Personally I don't think so.

Our proposals take a bit of time to understand and while they do save ourselves, they are also fairly reasonable. There is going to have to be a rule and regulation change regardless so we are just putting our case forward. Our owners have saved this club and turned it around and whilst going down wouldn't be a big issue as we would be expected to challenge straight away for promotion, it does put a tarnish on the hard work of last season in which we battled through to gain promotion.

I also don't understand the now hatred towards our club and owners from some posters. If you were in our position then you would be fighting in the exact same way (though it is true this could have all been mentioned a couple of weeks earlier).

It all comes down to the vote... I have seen the Owners of Rotherham, Peterborough, Sunderland and Accrington all say it would be unfair on us to go down and if it went to a vote whereby there would be promotion and no relegation then I think that would be the outright winner as was the case in League 2. You then just balance the league up in the course of the next couple of seasons which is seen as a result of a global pandemic. You could suspend the Checkatrade trophy (you lucky bastards would be able to send your 23s!) for one of two seasons to allow for the extra games which result in more revenue for clubs which makes up slightly for revenue lost during this current period.

Anyway regardless of what your stance on us may be, good luck with your imminent promotion and hopefully we'll be playing each other again soon. Had a great time at St Andrew's this season (Cheers for those 3 points ) and you were the best team we've seen at Prenton Park this season by a long way. All the best.

I totally get it & it would be harsh to be relegated on PPG but causing such huge upheaval to the entire football pyramid just to stop you being relegated won't be given the time of day.

Can you answer why the % Margin proposed is over last 3 years if you've supposedly modelled it over 10 years?

As with all stats models like this, the larger the dataset the better, the football league has been going for hundreds of years so why just 3? You could at least go back to the start of 3 points for a win (1981)?
Is it because 3 years gave you best chance of staying up perhaps?

chiefdave · May 28, 2020

jordan210 said:
Doesn't look like we are going to know anything, anytime soon

The EFL have already put forward the proposal to be voted on having had multiple meetings to discuss alternatives.

13.3.3 states the league is under no obligation to include any resolution proposed by a member club to change the regulations.

OffenhamSkyBlue · May 28, 2020

skybluesam66 said:
disagree - but should do 3rd bottom with 4-6 in League 2 . So if Tranmere eg survive, then only 3 up etc
Can do for all divisions

Isn't that what they do/did in Scotland. Obviously it is skewed in favour of the team that has played in the better division - but those pushing for promotion would be more likely to have the momentum ...

Wirral Rover · May 28, 2020

Frostie said:
I totally get it & it would be harsh to be relegated on PPG but causing such huge upheaval to the entire football pyramid just to stop you being relegated won't be given the time of day.

Can you answer why the % Margin proposed is over last 3 years if you've supposedly modelled it over 10 years?

As with all stats models like this, the larger the dataset the better, the football league has been going for hundreds of years so why just 3? You could at least go back to the start of 3 points for a win (1981)?
Is it because 3 years gave you best chance of staying up perhaps?

In terms of relegation, you could see Bolton and Southend down, 4 come up and ourselves given a reprieve. That wouldn't cause a huge upheaval at all. But you then get into the whole "it's not fair on Bolton and Southend" which, whilst is a fair point, everyone knows they were resigned to League Two whereas our case is a whole lot more complicated as is being shown!

I couldn't tell you as I don't have all the numbers! But given it looks like we're going down by 0.04 points and the margin proposed is +6.43% or -5.45%, you'd think that we'd be within the margin even over a 10 period.

better days · May 28, 2020

Wirral Rover said:
Hi all... Tranmere fan in peace (Genuinely!)

Firstly, and I know this is the case for every Tranmere fan I know, we hope you get promoted and deservedly so. Under any proposal that has been put forward, including our ones, you would be and I think it is safe to say that you will be. Given the tough times you've had recently regarding club ownership and stadium issues, you guys deserve it.

The reason for us putting up a fight is that under PPG, we would be relegated by 0.04 PPG. We had just won 3 on the bounce (not THE in form team but ONE OF the in form teams in the league), we had 4 teams directly above us in our next games, we were 3 points behind AFC Wimbledon and we had a game in hand. Other info that you guys may not realise (and why should you... you don't support TRFC!) is that we invested in January and had a squad that was now just starting to gel. We have just had two promotions on the spin and adjusting to life in League One was always going to be hard. Trust me there is a huge gap between playing North Ferriby and Coventry! It was always the plan to start off the season, assess in January, then add some transfers in Jan. Coupled with that we had a decent Cup run which involved replays creating a lot of fixtures in that busy Winter period.

I get that the League table doesn't lie. After 34/35 games we deserve to be in the bottom 3. However teams constantly make come backs late on in the season. You just have to look at last season... 3 of the bottom 4 at this stage didn't get relegated with the teams in 15th, 16th and 18th going down. Wimbledon made up a 7 point gap and Oxford went on their best run of the season. Momentum is everything at the latter stages... Less so at the top because you're there as you've played excellent footy all season but it really kicks in for a team near the bottom. Now of course there is no guarantee at all that after 44 games we would have stayed up. But there is also no guarantee that we would go down. Is 0.04 points really fair on a team to drop down a division due to a worldwide pandemic? Personally I don't think so.

Our proposals take a bit of time to understand and while they do save ourselves, they are also fairly reasonable. There is going to have to be a rule and regulation change regardless so we are just putting our case forward. Our owners have saved this club and turned it around and whilst going down wouldn't be a big issue as we would be expected to challenge straight away for promotion, it does put a tarnish on the hard work of last season in which we battled through to gain promotion.

I also don't understand the now hatred towards our club and owners from some posters. If you were in our position then you would be fighting in the exact same way (though it is true this could have all been mentioned a couple of weeks earlier).

It all comes down to the vote... I have seen the Owners of Rotherham, Peterborough, Sunderland and Accrington all say it would be unfair on us to go down and if it went to a vote whereby there would be promotion and no relegation then I think that would be the outright winner as was the case in League 2. You then just balance the league up in the course of the next couple of seasons which is seen as a result of a global pandemic. You could suspend the Checkatrade trophy (you lucky bastards would be able to send your 23s!) for one of two seasons to allow for the extra games which result in more revenue for clubs which makes up slightly for revenue lost during this current period.

Anyway regardless of what your stance on us may be, good luck with your imminent promotion and hopefully we'll be playing each other again soon. Had a great time at St Andrew's this season (Cheers for those 3 points ) and you were the best team we've seen at Prenton Park this season by a long way. All the best.

Well put together and reasonable post - good to hear your view
It's an impossible situation
Most Sky Blues fans would prefer the season was played out, We're confident we'd stay where we are
But these circumstances are almost impossible for the clubs in L1 with nothing to play for
I'm glad it's not my job to resolve this
Good luck with whatever happens

better days · May 28, 2020

tisza said:
Old pals act with Samuel going back to his days at the FA.
Samuel going to interview the likes of Andy Holt for an alternative viewpoint? Doubt it!

Martin Samuel was ghost writer for Harry Redknapp's autobiography
He defends Redknapp at every turn despite knowing exactly what he did everywhere he's been including Samuel's own club West Ham
A smug, fat cynic full of poison

jordan210 · May 28, 2020

chiefdave said:
The EFL have already put forward the proposal to be voted on having had multiple meetings to discuss alternatives.

13.3.3 states the league is under no obligation to include any resolution proposed by a member club to change the regulations.

I assume she knows this but is trying to make it so when Tranmere idea isn't included. It will all be a vendetta against them

CCFC88 · May 28, 2020

jordan210 said:
Doesn't look like we are going to know anything, anytime soon

Vote to changeEFL regs on Monday, 5 days notice after that for vote on what to do with league 1, expect Friday to be the day our fate is sealed

CCFC88 · May 28, 2020

jordan210 said:
I assume she knows this but is trying to make it so when Tranmere idea isn't included. It will all be a vendetta against them

They have been told about the change of regs vote on Monday, she wont have been notified of the L1 outcome vote yet, but will know in her mind that it will be 5 days from the regs vote.

She's just trying to be clever with her wording to answer people on twitter. Her attempt to be the NW version of DMAC

Frostie · May 28, 2020

Wirral Rover said:
In terms of relegation, you could see Bolton and Southend down, 4 come up and ourselves given a reprieve. That wouldn't cause a huge upheaval at all. But you then get into the whole "it's not fair on Bolton and Southend" which, whilst is a fair point, everyone knows they were resigned to League Two whereas our case is a whole lot more complicated as is being shown!

I couldn't tell you as I don't have all the numbers! But given it looks like we're going down by 0.04 points and the margin proposed is +6.43% or -5.45%, you'd think that we'd be within the margin even over a 10 period.

You'd also end up with a 7 team playoff in League 1 & 11 in Championship if they can't compete etc.
This in itself is a logistical nightmare with an odd number of teams & having to stage extra games.
Not to mention the team finishing 2nd potentially losing out to a team who finished in the bottom half!

Also, odd number of teams = blank matchdays & never a level playing field (as with this season).

Larger league means reduced funds per team at a time where your owner admits some will struggle to survive as it is.

God forbid we get this second wave or another reason curtails the following season, you could end up with 30 teams in one league!

As I say, I totally understand why it's being done & do feel for you but this creates far more problems than it solves.

Wirral Rover · May 28, 2020

Frostie said:
You'd also end up with a 13 team playoff in League 1 & 11 in Championship if they can't compete etc.
This in itself is a logistical nightmare with an odd number of teams & having to stage extra games.
Not to mention the team finishing 2nd potentially losing out to a team who finished in the bottom half!

Also, odd number of teams = blank matchdays & never a level playing field (as with this season).

Larger league means reduced funds per team at a time where your owner admits some will struggle to survive as it is.

God forbid we get this second wave or another reason curtails the following season, you could end up with 30 teams in one league!

As I say, I totally understand why it's being done & do feel for you but this creates far more problems than it solves.

And I completely understand all the above with regards to playoffs incorporating more teams. The other option is the no relegation at all format which got an overwhelming vote in League Two. That would work and you can easily balance the leagues back up within a couple of years. But then you would have people going "Well why are clubs being rewarded for having a poor season" with that aimed more at Bolton and Southend. I've seen in the Women's Super League that seems the most likely scenario.

I think more guidance from the FA would be appreciated. They have allowed null and void seasons below the National League and look set to allow for no relegation in the WSL. League Two voted for no relegation and League One clubs would probably vote the same. It's just the EFL board that are objecting.

Whatever happens happens but it's all a bit messy. Would be interesting to hear from Coventry fans whether if it went with a PPG method but we were given a reprieve based on how close it all is etc, whether that would be something you guys would accept or if you'd maintain that 3 have to go down.

MalcSB · May 28, 2020

Wirral Rover said:
Hi all... Tranmere fan in peace (Genuinely!)

Firstly, and I know this is the case for every Tranmere fan I know, we hope you get promoted and deservedly so. Under any proposal that has been put forward, including our ones, you would be and I think it is safe to say that you will be. Given the tough times you've had recently regarding club ownership and stadium issues, you guys deserve it.

The reason for us putting up a fight is that under PPG, we would be relegated by 0.04 PPG. We had just won 3 on the bounce (not THE in form team but ONE OF the in form teams in the league), we had 4 teams directly above us in our next games, we were 3 points behind AFC Wimbledon and we had a game in hand. Other info that you guys may not realise (and why should you... you don't support TRFC!) is that we invested in January and had a squad that was now just starting to gel. We have just had two promotions on the spin and adjusting to life in League One was always going to be hard. Trust me there is a huge gap between playing North Ferriby and Coventry! It was always the plan to start off the season, assess in January, then add some transfers in Jan. Coupled with that we had a decent Cup run which involved replays creating a lot of fixtures in that busy Winter period.

I get that the League table doesn't lie. After 34/35 games we deserve to be in the bottom 3. However teams constantly make come backs late on in the season. You just have to look at last season... 3 of the bottom 4 at this stage didn't get relegated with the teams in 15th, 16th and 18th going down. Wimbledon made up a 7 point gap and Oxford went on their best run of the season. Momentum is everything at the latter stages... Less so at the top because you're there as you've played excellent footy all season but it really kicks in for a team near the bottom. Now of course there is no guarantee at all that after 44 games we would have stayed up. But there is also no guarantee that we would go down. Is 0.04 points really fair on a team to drop down a division due to a worldwide pandemic? Personally I don't think so.

Our proposals take a bit of time to understand and while they do save ourselves, they are also fairly reasonable. There is going to have to be a rule and regulation change regardless so we are just putting our case forward. Our owners have saved this club and turned it around and whilst going down wouldn't be a big issue as we would be expected to challenge straight away for promotion, it does put a tarnish on the hard work of last season in which we battled through to gain promotion.

I also don't understand the now hatred towards our club and owners from some posters. If you were in our position then you would be fighting in the exact same way (though it is true this could have all been mentioned a couple of weeks earlier).

It all comes down to the vote... I have seen the Owners of Rotherham, Peterborough, Sunderland and Accrington all say it would be unfair on us to go down and if it went to a vote whereby there would be promotion and no relegation then I think that would be the outright winner as was the case in League 2. You then just balance the league up in the course of the next couple of seasons which is seen as a result of a global pandemic. You could suspend the Checkatrade trophy (you lucky bastards would be able to send your 23s!) for one of two seasons to allow for the extra games which result in more revenue for clubs which makes up slightly for revenue lost during this current period.

Anyway regardless of what your stance on us may be, good luck with your imminent promotion and hopefully we'll be playing each other again soon. Had a great time at St Andrew's this season (Cheers for those 3 points ) and you were the best team we've seen at Prenton Park this season by a long way. All the best.

Thing is if you had won your game in hand your goal difference would still be really poor

Frostie · May 28, 2020

MalcSB said:
Thing is if you had won your game in hand your goal difference would still be really poor

They'd need to win 11-0 to get out of relegation spots so whenever someone trots out the "3 points from safety" line as Nicola Palios has done repeatedly they immediately lose some credibility.

Wirral Rover · May 28, 2020

MalcSB said:
Thing is if you had won your game in hand your goal difference would still be really poor

Correct but I don't know whether it would change whether we stay up on a PPG basis. We also had AFC Wimbledon to play directly after we faced Rochdale which is our game in hand. I know if we were allowed to play that one game in hand, as with you guys facing Wycombe, to at least give us a chance to get on a level playing field in terms of matches played then we'd jump at that! But then you have the costs of testing etc...

mrtrench · May 28, 2020

OK lads, I've worked out a way that will be OK for the current dissenters. I've calculated the final table but I'm still working on the rules which result in this. Do you think it'll be fine to fudge a few of them?

chiefdave · May 28, 2020

Wirral Rover said:
The reason for us putting up a fight is that under PPG, we would be relegated by 0.04 PPG.

How have you got that number? The data Tranmere posted on their website for PPG has you finishing on 41 points and Wimbledon one place above you on 44.

Wirral Rover said:
Our proposals take a bit of time to understand and while they do save ourselves, they are also fairly reasonable

Problem is there's multiple 'reasonable' scenarios, how reasonable seems to depend on which team you support. Simplicity is the key here. As I write this I'm watching the NHL 'Return to Play' press conference. Their league commissioner has summed it up pretty well "These are extraordinary and unprecedented times. Any plan for the resumption of play by definition cannot be perfect. And I am certain that depending on which team you root for, you can find some element of this package that you might prefer to be done differently".

Wirral Rover said:
I also don't understand the now hatred towards our club and owners from some posters. If you were in our position then you would be fighting in the exact same way (though it is true this could have all been mentioned a couple of weeks earlier).

Think its the way your owners, in particular Nicola Palios, are acting on social media. The way she responds to anyone who doesn't agree with the Tranmere proposal is highly unprofessional. Also the insistence that this is about 'integrity' when its clear its about Tranmere. Just be honest about it.
Also think how long it has gone on is impacting. Think a lot of clubs would have accepted their fate by now, especially when other clubs are struggling to survive at all. Instead at the last minute they've trying to completely change what is being voted on.

Wirral Rover said:
It all comes down to the vote... I have seen the Owners of Rotherham, Peterborough, Sunderland and Accrington all say it would be unfair on us to go down and if it went to a vote whereby there would be promotion and no relegation then I think that would be the outright winner as was the case in League 2. You then just balance the league up in the course of the next couple of seasons which is seen as a result of a global pandemic. You could suspend the Checkatrade trophy (you lucky bastards would be able to send your 23s!) for one of two seasons to allow for the extra games which result in more revenue for clubs which makes up slightly for revenue lost during this current period.

But this has been put forward after it has been decided what will be voted on after weeks of meetings. Why would the EFL abandon the work done so far and go back to square one where they're discussing various methods of finalising the table?
As for cancelling cup competitions to allow for the extra games the plan requires who is going to cover the lost revenue from that or are you still expecting g the sponsors to hand over the cash?

Ring Of Steel · May 28, 2020

Wirral Rover said:
Correct but I don't know whether it would change whether we stay up on a PPG basis. We also had AFC Wimbledon to play directly after we faced Rochdale which is our game in hand. I know if we were allowed to play that one game in hand, as with you guys facing Wycombe, to at least give us a chance to get on a level playing field in terms of matches played then we'd jump at that! But then you have the costs of testing etc...

I haven't had time to go over all this, but have I got this wrong that the plan being proposed somehow incorporates results for 3 years?

Frostie · May 28, 2020

Wirral Rover said:
And I completely understand all the above with regards to playoffs incorporating more teams. The other option is the no relegation at all format which got an overwhelming vote in League Two. That would work and you can easily balance the leagues back up within a couple of years. But then you would have people going "Well why are clubs being rewarded for having a poor season" with that aimed more at Bolton and Southend. I've seen in the Women's Super League that seems the most likely scenario.

I think more guidance from the FA would be appreciated. They have allowed null and void seasons below the National League and look set to allow for no relegation in the WSL. League Two voted for no relegation and League One clubs would probably vote the same. It's just the EFL board that are objecting.

Whatever happens happens but it's all a bit messy. Would be interesting to hear from Coventry fans whether if it went with a PPG method but we were given a reprieve based on how close it all is etc, whether that would be something you guys would accept or if you'd maintain that 3 have to go down.

You can't just apply the model to the bottom end of the table & not the top.

Listen, it has no effect on us as we will win the league whatever method is used.
I have no beef with Tranmere or Peterborough & sympathise with both in this scenario but straight PPG is the method that will have fewest repercussions.

Something should have been put in place before but that's due to the nature of the EFL being governed by the clubs, as we see now more than ever, they find it impossible to agree. We should have an independent governing body which I know your owners amongst others have been campaigning for for a while.

Full promotion & relegation must happen throughout the football league minimum else we will end up with the Premier League as a closed shop as they've been widely rumoured to be trying for a while. It's just grossly unfortunate that it's Tranmere who lose out.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 28, 2020

Frostie said:
Full promotion & relegation must happen throughout the football league minimum else we will end up with the Premier League as a closed shop as they've been widely rumoured to be trying for a while. It's just grossly unfortunate that it's Tranmere who lose out.

It's what they have tried to engineer with increasingly ridiculous parachute payments and if they had the chance to lock it with Leeds in place of Bournemouth I'm sure they would.

Frostie · May 28, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
I haven't had time to go over all this, but have I got this wrong that the plan being proposed somehow incorporates results for 3 years?

Essentially.

They are saying that the stats suggest a margin for error in PPG of + 6.3% or – 5.4% based on actual outcomes over the last 3 years.

The cynic in me immediately wonders why just 3 years when the competition has existed for hundreds... possibly as 3 years gives Tranmere the best chance of survival?

Ring Of Steel · May 28, 2020

Frostie said:
You can't just apply the model to the bottom end of the table & not the top.

Listen, it has no effect on us as we will win the league whatever method is used.
I have no beef with Tranmere or Peterborough & sympathise with both
in this scenario but straight PPG is the method that will have least repercussions.
Something should have been put in place before but that's due to the nature of the EFL being governed by the clubs, as we see now more than ever, they find it impossible to agree. We should have an independent governing body which I know your owners amongst others have been campaigning for for a while.

Full promotion & relegation must happen throughout the football league minimum else we will end up with the Premier League as a closed shop as they've been widely rumoured to be trying for a while. It's just grossly unfortunate that it's Tranmere who lose out.

I've read it now- what a load of horseshit that all is- my god, if Tranmere, Peterborough etc had invested this much thought in tactics & selection then they wouldn't be where they are in the table. There is a reason they are where they are in the table, and in the absence of matches now we only have actual games played to use. Last season is totally irrelevant, can't they see that?

I take no pleasure in seeing anyone get relegated, but to come up with something as far fetched, complicated and over the top as this, purely in self interest (don't patronise me with words like 'integrity'), its embarrassing and ridiculous.

"Integrity" is accepting that facts, ie games played this season are the only true way to gauge this, instead of clubs devising fiendish schemes that just happen to save their skins. Its also accepting that the only real arbiter of a team's performances is the league table, as opposed to trying to sneakily slither further up a make believe table by introducing equations & coefficients, which any idiot could bend to produce something that suits themselves.

It might not seem 'fair', but well, life ain't fair and Tranmere have absolutely no way to demonstrate that these pretend games would have ended any differently to how the previous games went- with them heading for relegation. If it was us I'd hate it, but underneath it all I'd also know it was reality.

Wirral Rover · May 28, 2020

chiefdave said:
How have you got that number? The data Tranmere posted on their website for PPG has you finishing on 41 points and Wimbledon one place above you on 44.

Problem is there's multiple 'reasonable' scenarios, how reasonable seems to depend on which team you support. Simplicity is the key here. As I write this I'm watching the NHL 'Return to Play' press conference. Their league commissioner has summed it up pretty well "These are extraordinary and unprecedented times. Any plan for the resumption of play by definition cannot be perfect. And I am certain that depending on which team you root for, you can find some element of this package that you might prefer to be done differently".

Think its the way your owners, in particular Nicola Palios, are acting on social media. The way she responds to anyone who doesn't agree with the Tranmere proposal is highly unprofessional. Also the insistence that this is about 'integrity' when its clear its about Tranmere. Just be honest about it.
Also think how long it has gone on is impacting. Think a lot of clubs would have accepted their fate by now, especially when other clubs are struggling to survive at all. Instead at the last minute they've trying to completely change what is being voted on.

But this has been put forward after it has been decided what will be voted on after weeks of meetings. Why would the EFL abandon the work done so far and go back to square one where they're discussing various methods of finalising the table?
As for cancelling cup competitions to allow for the extra games the plan requires who is going to cover the lost revenue from that or are you still expecting g the sponsors to hand over the cash?

It was on one of the tables that was put out. Honestly I can't remember if it was weighted or unweighted or whatever weighted! Even if it was 3 points that's only one result. I know our goal difference is -11 in comparison to Wimbledon but if we won our game in hand against Rochdale by lets say 2, then we beat Wimbledon by 2, the goal difference gap is then 5 to Wimbledon and just 2 to Rochdale so that can easily change.

I agree that there is no perfect scenario but we're just putting forward our case which we have every right to do. It's a lot easier to say "accept your fate" when you're going to be promoted no matter what or if you're comfortably mid table and won't be going up or down at all. But when you're in our situation it's different. Everyone is saying go with PPG and going "it's harsh on Tranmere but that's just how it is". Others go with the line "If we were in your situation we'd just take the relegation and get on with it".

I want this sorted as much as everyone else and as I've already said, whatever decision happens then we have to get on with it. Every club is suffering financially and the sooner this is resolved the better. But I won't apologise for our club fighting our corner. Could we have done it in a better way? Probably. But I don't see why we should be told to simply accept the matter when it impacts us so severely.

jordan210 · May 28, 2020

CCFC88 said:
Vote to changeEFL regs on Monday, 5 days notice after that for vote on what to do with league 1, expect Friday to be the day our fate is sealed

Was that Monday just been or next week. I have no concept of time and dates anymore

Wirral Rover · May 28, 2020

Frostie said:
They'd need to win 11-0 to get out of relegation spots so whenever someone trots out the "3 points from safety" line as Nicola Palios has done repeatedly they immediately lose some credibility.

Agreed it's not 3 points from safety. But as mentioned in the other post just now, that goal difference can near enough be wiped out if we beat Rochdale and AFC Wimbledon or at least to the point where it can be overturned after just one or two more games.

Ring Of Steel · May 28, 2020

Wirral Rover said:
It was on one of the tables that was put out. Honestly I can't remember if it was weighted or unweighted or whatever weighted! Even if it was 3 points that's only one result. I know our goal difference is -11 in comparison to Wimbledon but if we won our game in hand against Rochdale by lets say 2, then we beat Wimbledon by 2, the goal difference gap is then 5 to Wimbledon and just 2 to Rochdale so that can easily change.

I agree that there is no perfect scenario but we're just putting forward our case which we have every right to do. It's a lot easier to say "accept your fate" when you're going to be promoted no matter what or if you're comfortably mid table and won't be going up or down at all. But when you're in our situation it's different. Everyone is saying go with PPG and going "it's harsh on Tranmere but that's just how it is". Others go with the line "If we were in your situation we'd just take the relegation and get on with it".

I want this sorted as much as everyone else and as I've already said, whatever decision happens then we have to get on with it. Every club is suffering financially and the sooner this is resolved the better. But I won't apologise for our club fighting our corner. Could we have done it in a better way? Probably. But I don't see why we should be told to simply accept the matter when it impacts us so severely.

"I don't see why we should be told to simply accept the matter when it impacts us so severely"

That just demonstrates that despite the honourable words, "integrity" does not come into it and you don't care about having the best way, you just want a way that suits you.

Ring Of Steel · May 28, 2020

Wirral Rover said:
Agreed it's not 3 points from safety. But as mentioned in the other post just now, that goal difference can near enough be wiped out if we beat Rochdale and AFC Wimbledon or at least to the point where it can be overturned after just one or two more games.

Ifs, maybes, what ifs, if onlys... no facts here. There is nothing to anything like prove you'd have won either game- and why 3 years' worth of results? Going back that far means you have a play off final & 2 promotions doesn't it? How spooky that is

Wirral Rover · May 28, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
"I don't see why we should be told to simply accept the matter when it impacts us so severely"

That just demonstrates that despite the honourable words, "integrity" does not come into it and you don't care about having the best way, you just want a way that suits you.

Equally there is no "integrity" in relegating a club that had every chance of surviving and just going "deal with it". I've know I've bored a lot of you (apologies) but I'm just putting our thoughts forward as in my first post. As a Tranmere fan, of course my stance is hoping for the best for my club. As is the same with every club's supporters! But life gets you nowhere if you just constantly accept the **** in life and have to deal with it. You get up and look to turn it around. That will either be by staying up this season or fighting for promotion back to League One next.

Wirral Rover · May 28, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
Ifs, maybes, what ifs, if onlys... no facts here. There is nothing to anything like prove you'd have won either game- and why 3 years' worth of results? Going back that far means you have a play off final & 2 promotions doesn't it? How spooky that is

It wasn't done on our results. It was done on the results in League One (I think1 Could have involved other leagues too) over the past 3 years...

tisza · May 28, 2020

Frostie said:
Full promotion & relegation must happen throughout the football league minimum else we will end up with the Premier League as a closed shop as they've been widely rumoured to be trying for a while. It's just grossly unfortunate that it's Tranmere who lose out.

Can see them trying to ring fence the top 2 divisions but PL are aware that TV audiences/income need a "carrot and stick". Or else you get December/Jan and half the games remaining become pointless from there on in. Then they're only showing games from the top half of the PL and bottom half lose even more income to the big clubs

Frostie · May 28, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
why 3 years' worth of results? Going back that far means you have a play off final & 2 promotions doesn't it? How spooky that is

Agree on the 3 years - mighty suspicious but it's not a clubs individual results over the 3 years it's ALL clubs tbf.

EFL to end season this week - City likely to be promoted (13 Viewers)

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