Doug King live on air Monday (1 Viewer)

KenilworthSkyBlue · Jun 20, 2023

skyblu3sk said:
I'm not getting defensive maybe slightly frustrated at your previous lack of acceptance that it may take organisations more time to sort procurement. On companies willing to spend the money that is going to come out over the next few months and could well fall flat on its face. What I don't see is how we are different to a lot of other clubs selling their boxes for the prices they are. Again value for money aside, more that there are companies out there willing to spend it. When Doug was interviewed he did talk about improving the offering overall but again not sure how that aligns to other clubs. I do think the SISU debacle will have put off some businesses being seen to align to the club will be interesting now they have gone if that improves I know if I owned a business it would have made me think twice about publicly being associated.

In the grand scheme of things the area isn't brilliant for business really. Most major companies that are situated within the area are located here simply due to geographical/strategic location. Therefore it's unlikely that they have anything really to do with the region other than from perhaps at best a CSR basis. Like I said in my previous post that could all change with the right approach though.

The best case study I can use is probably the City of Culture debacle. They mistakenly believed that local larger enterprises/SMEs would be lining the streets to support and the whole thing largely fell flat on its face. And really on the face of it that had far more cause to receive support from local businesses, regardless of size, than CCFC would in their pursuit of filling boxes.

Equally, having operated for the past 5/6 years in the area I've since diversified, taking my businesses nationally as it was honestly like trying to get blood out of a stone trying to convert even some of the larger businesses within the area - and from those that I was successful, they were pretty frugal. It's something I've especially noticed post-pandemic.

Obviously I'm not saying other football clubs don't have the same issue but I think that's one hurdle the club has repeatedly struggled to overcome.

GIMOC · Jun 20, 2023

croatskyblue said:
a whole load left over to sell during the season

And if the season starts badly? Can’t see being much of an up take for glorified hotel rooms

Senior Vick from Alicante · Jun 20, 2023

KenilworthSkyBlue said:
In the grand scheme of things the area isn't brilliant for business really. Most major companies that are situated within the area are located here simply due to geographical/strategic location. Therefore it's unlikely that they have anything really to do with the region other than from perhaps at best a CSR basis. Like I said in my previous post that could all change with the right approach though.

The best case study I can use is probably the City of Culture debacle. They mistakenly believed that local larger enterprises/SMEs would be lining the streets to support and the whole thing largely fell flat on its face. And really on the face of it that had far more cause to receive support from local businesses, regardless of size, than CCFC would in their pursuit of filling boxes.

Equally, having operated for the past 5/6 years in the area I've since diversified, taking my businesses nationally as it was honestly like trying to get blood out of a stone trying to convert even some of the larger businesses within the area - and from those that I was successful, they were pretty frugal. It's something I've especially noticed post-pandemic.

Obviously I'm not saying other football clubs don't have the same issue but I think that's one hurdle the club has repeatedly struggled to overcome.

The COC debacle is not the fault of local companies failing to get behind it. Contracts were awarded to out of town companies by the steering committee which is one of the points being investigated through the enquiry.

RoboCCFC90 · Jun 20, 2023

clint van damme said:
'This loyal fan is irritating', fucking hell.

And my ST didn't go up 300 percent.

Price increase is a price increase, you are well aware that the corporate packages that have underpriced for some time, therefore saying “my ST didn’t go up 300 percent” really isn’t relevant when corporate packages have been similar to that of match day ticket prices.

croatskyblue · Jun 20, 2023

GIMOC said:
And if the season starts badly? Can’t see being much of an up take for glorified hotel rooms

then there are still boxes to sell. No difference.

it’s a little disturbing how you have apparently taken a second job in ranting at everyone who will listen (and plenty who won’t) that its all going to fail and how everything is crap.

skyblu3sk · Jun 20, 2023

KenilworthSkyBlue said:
In the grand scheme of things the area isn't brilliant for business really. Most major companies that are situated within the area are located here simply due to geographical/strategic location. Therefore it's unlikely that they have anything really to do with the region other than from perhaps at best a CSR basis. Like I said in my previous post that could all change with the right approach though.

The best case study I can use is probably the City of Culture debacle. They mistakenly believed that local larger enterprises/SMEs would be lining the streets to support and the whole thing largely fell flat on its face. And really on the face of it that had far more cause to receive support from local businesses, regardless of size, than CCFC would in their pursuit of filling boxes.

Equally, having operated for the past 5/6 years in the area I've since diversified, taking my businesses nationally as it was honestly like trying to get blood out of a stone trying to convert even some of the larger businesses within the area - and from those that I was successful, they were pretty frugal. It's something I've especially noticed post-pandemic.

Obviously I'm not saying other football clubs don't have the same issue but I think that's one hurdle the club has repeatedly struggled to overcome.

We have a reasonable number of companies in the area but Doug needs to get their wallets out for example would Aldi or Sainsbury's be interested in their drive to try have a healthier society. They are also trying to keep profits down as they don't want to be seen to profiteer in a cost of living crisis even if that means dropping the % profit they get in the short term.

Fraser group will be a given probably as part of the stadium deal itself. TATA have big links to the area with JLR but could they decide TCS would be a good shout to have some hospitality. Obviously already discussed Aston Martin and JLR themselves. Few others here Global Business in Coventry & Warwickshire | CWLEP.

Some medium size Businesses will also stump up I used to work for a company that clubbed together with another to get a box for example.

I'm not sure the city of Culture stuff was comparable seems like very different offerings but take your point about it may be more difficult than Doug thinks.

clint van damme · Jun 20, 2023

RoboCCFC90 said:
Price increase is a price increase, you are well aware that the corporate packages that have underpriced for some time, therefore saying “my ST didn’t go up 300 percent” really isn’t relevant when corporate packages have been similar to that of match day ticket prices.

Putting a 300 percent increase on in one hit to loyal fans is not acceptable.
Whether it was under priced or not is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 20, 2023

We must be the only consumers in the world who demand to pay more for a product. Where were you all when I was selling my house?!?

shmmeee · Jun 20, 2023

Grendel said:
This is just clueless

Classic response when you’ve got no response.

If we onboard people at this price and revenue doesn’t drop then it’s a win no matter how many band managers are upset. If we don’t then he’ll need to look at pricing.

One of the issues we’ve had apparently is boxes all being sold out and unable to put things on for games. I’d imagine King will see an increase in revenue and extra stock as a win win TBH.

shmmeee · Jun 20, 2023

clint van damme said:
Putting a 300 percent increase on in one hit to loyal fans is not acceptable.
Whether it was under priced or not is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned.

His rationale is we don’t have three years to wait to become competitive.

clint van damme · Jun 20, 2023

shmmeee said:
His rationale is we don’t have three years to wait to become competitive.

But we have a 5 year plan?
And what does he consider competitive?
We dont have a lot of room to improve next year without actally getting promoted.

GIMOC · Jun 20, 2023

croatskyblue said:
then there are still boxes to sell. No difference.

it’s a little disturbing how you have apparently taken a second job in ranting at everyone who will listen (and plenty who won’t) that its all going to fail and how everything is crap.

????? It’s all about opinions. My opinion is, if sisu done this, be up roar. Because it’s king, everyone saying what a master plan it is. I beg to differ and believe it will back fire. Time will tell.

croatskyblue · Jun 20, 2023

clint van damme said:
But we have a 5 year plan?
And what does he consider competitive?
We dont have a lot of room to improve next year without actally getting promoted.

a 5 year plan doesn’t mean you have no intention of completing anything until the end of that 5 years. Sooner the better, kick things off as you mean to continue. Why dawdle and give a couple of years grace?

croatskyblue · Jun 20, 2023

GIMOC said:
????? It’s all about opinions. My opinion is, if sisu done this, be up roar. Because it’s king, everyone saying what a master plan it is. I beg to differ and believe it will back fire. Time will tell.

Is ‘everyone’ saying that it’s a masterplan? You are lying. And it’s nothing to do with sisu, they are irrelevant, but if that’s the warped logic you need to apply in order to have a little whine about King then fair enough

RoboCCFC90 · Jun 20, 2023

clint van damme said:
Putting a 300 percent increase on in one hit to loyal fans is not acceptable.
Whether it was under priced or not is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned.

Could've been done incrementally, potentially, but it hasn’t.

If the loyal fans don’t like it then sit somewhere else in the ground where it’s cheaper, no one is saying you can’t, if you don’t want to then pay the price.

The changes this coming season are impacting every fan. As an example my ST can’t be renewed as the seat is in a block which is not on sale, my ST’s are also going up in price, but don’t you see me whinging about it. Is it fair? No, will I get on it and find somewhere else to sit and pay the price.

There are alternatives, but whining about something that has already happened, changes nothing.

KenilworthSkyBlue · Jun 20, 2023

skyblu3sk said:
We have a reasonable number of companies in the area but Doug needs to get their wallets out for example would Aldi or Sainsbury's be interested in their drive to try have a healthier society. They are also trying to keep profits down as they don't want to be seen to profiteer in a cost of living crisis even if that means dropping the % profit they get in the short term.

Fraser group will be a given probably as part of the stadium deal itself. TATA have big links to the area with JLR but could they decide TCS would be a good shout to have some hospitality. Obviously already discussed Aston Martin and JLR themselves. Few others here Global Business in Coventry & Warwickshire | CWLEP.

Some medium size Businesses will also stump up I used to work for a company that clubbed together with another to get a box for example.

I'm not sure the city of Culture stuff was comparable seems like very different offerings but take your point about it may be more difficult than Doug thinks.

Hmm I'd take that list with a pinch of salt. Most of these businesses to my knowledge don't have HQs in C&W, it's likely they just have a site/office in the area. So really most aren't relevant other than those we've already discussed. Still would be worth an approach I'm sure.

Medium sized business might but the club need to cultivate and nurture those relationships. The whole wait for them to come to us approach which they've previously deployed quite obviously isn't going to work.

City of Culture wasn't really a comparison, it was more an indicator that the region doesn't have a particularly strong reputation of spending when called upon.

clint van damme · Jun 20, 2023

RoboCCFC90 said:
Could've been done incrementally, potentially, but it hasn’t.

If the loyal fans don’t like it then sit somewhere else in the ground where it’s cheaper, no one is saying you can’t, if you don’t want to then pay the price.

The changes this coming season are impacting every fan. As an example my ST can’t be renewed as the seat is in a block which is not on sale, my ST’s are also going up in price, but don’t you see me whinging about it. Is it fair? No, will I get on it and find somewhere else to sit and pay the price.

There are alternatives, but whining about something that has already happened, changes nothing.

Don't like it sit somewhere else really isn't the attitude to take towards loyal supporters.

And no ones whinged about the ST increase because it is fair!. Dot think I've heard anyone say its not.

croatskyblue · Jun 20, 2023

clint van damme said:
Don't like it sit somewhere else really isn't the attitude to take towards loyal supporters.

And no ones whinged about the ST increase because it is fair!. Dot think I've heard anyone say its not.

But everyone talks about the ‘matchday experience’, these days, the age of “loyal supporters” is (very unfortunately) over to be honest, you see it in clubs where people who were going 30 yrs get priced out.

the increase in boxes is fair, and comms was shite, don’t think anyone is saying otherwise, the only debate really is should it have been incremental. King has set his stall out that he wants things changed now, we will see how that pans out for him.

Grendel · Jun 20, 2023

shmmeee said:
Classic response when you’ve got no response.

If we onboard people at this price and revenue doesn’t drop then it’s a win no matter how many band managers are upset. If we don’t then he’ll need to look at pricing.

One of the issues we’ve had apparently is boxes all being sold out and unable to put things on for games. I’d imagine King will see an increase in revenue and extra stock as a win win TBH.

You literally said if extra revenue is £1 he’s right

So if those revenues come at a greater cost per £1 spent?

If dissatisfied customers walk away and don’t come back?

If any who take this don’t renew?

If having raked in the £25 grand from a few he then has to discount to attract anyone else alienating further the loyal customers now lapsed and also the few who now see themselves ripped off at an inflated price?

I actually assumed he had some businesses lined up to pay this price so I guess I saw some merit if it’s ruthless profiteering . Big businesses are like any other - they budget marketing spend over a period. So are they now running around trying to get some people interested.

Match by match will require logistical planning for catering etc.

Funnily enough I’m sure you pricing theory previously suggested you shouldn’t price against other teams but other events in the area?

it’s supposed to be a 5 year plan so wouldn’t there have been an argument to sign up existing clients on a 3 year package first? The revenue impact actually would be marginal, customers are on board and have a realistic choice.

“if we don’t we can look at pricing” which actually means it’s failed. Premium product discounted like a used car to get punters in as no thought applied to start with and then I assume a reduction to those who’ve forked out so admitting “we ripped you off lads but please come back next year”

RoboCCFC90 · Jun 20, 2023

clint van damme said:
Don't like it sit somewhere else really isn't the attitude to take towards loyal supporters.

And no ones whinged about the ST increase because it is fair!. Dot think I've heard anyone say its not.

Thats my attitude towards it, I must not be a loyal fan..

KenilworthSkyBlue · Jun 20, 2023

Grendel said:
You literally said if extra revenue is £1 he’s right

So if those revenues come at a greater cost per £1 spent?

If dissatisfied customers walk away and don’t come back?

If any who take this don’t renew?

If having raked in the £25 grand from a few he then has to discount to attract anyone else alienating further the loyal customers now lapsed and also the few who now see themselves ripped off at an inflated price?

I actually assumed he had some businesses lined up to pay this price so I guess I saw some merit if it’s ruthless profiteering . Big businesses are like any other - they budget marketing spend over a period. So are they now running around trying to get some people interested.

Match by match will require logistical planning for catering etc.

Funnily enough I’m sure you pricing theory previously suggested you shouldn’t price against other teams but other events in the area?

it’s supposed to be a 5 year plan so wouldn’t there have been an argument to sign up existing clients on a 3 year package first? The revenue impact actually would be marginal, customers are on board and have a realistic choice.

“if we don’t we can look at pricing” which actually means it’s failed. Premium product discounted like a used car to get punters in as no thought applied to start with and then I assume a reduction to those who’ve forked out so admitting “we ripped you off lads but please come back next year”

This is what I don't really understand about his decision making. Fair enough if he had better calibre of corporate partners lined up to fill the boxes but he quite clearly doesn't.

Why then try to alienate his existing customer base when quite clearly he's relying on them to renew for the forthcoming season.

It's incredibly bizarre and I'm just not entirely sure what his expectation was...

Deity · Jun 20, 2023

GIMOC said:
????? It’s all about opinions. My opinion is, if sisu done this, be up roar. Because it’s king, everyone saying what a master plan it is. I beg to differ and believe it will back fire. Time will tell.

You are entitled to a different view even if it is more emotional than logical, and if it does smell a little of self interest.

skyblu3sk · Jun 20, 2023

KenilworthSkyBlue said:
This is what I don't really understand about his decision making. Fair enough if he had better calibre of corporate partners lined up to fill the boxes but he quite clearly doesn't.

Why then try to alienate his existing customer base when quite clearly he's relying on them to renew for the forthcoming season.

It's incredibly bizarre and I'm just not entirely sure what his expectation was...

Another thing I'd missed is the boxes are also only on sale to existing holders until the 3rd of July so the only boxes currently sold will be repurchases.

clint van damme · Jun 20, 2023

croatskyblue said:
But everyone talks about the ‘matchday experience’, these days, the age of “loyal supporters” is (very unfortunately) over to be honest, you see it in clubs where people who were going 30 yrs get priced out.

the increase in boxes is fair, and comms was shite, don’t think anyone is saying otherwise, the only debate really is should it have been incremental. King has set his stall out that he wants things changed now, we will see how that pans out for him.

I don't want us to be that type of club to be honest.
And it's not as if for us the trade off will be leagues and European football.

Deity · Jun 20, 2023

clint van damme said:
I don't want us to be that type of club to be honest.
And it's not as if for us the trade off will be leagues and European football.

We were cheaper in Lg2 and in lg1 and yet the crowds were poor ( for a variety of reasons ).

if you prefer small, cheap, low quality football there is plenty on offer in the area. But Coventry City is about professional football.

clint van damme · Jun 20, 2023

Deity said:
We were cheaper in Lg2 and in lg1 and yet the crowds were poor ( for a variety of reasons ).

if you prefer small, cheap, low quality football there is plenty on offer in the area. But Coventry City is about professional football.

We came within a kick of been back in the prem last season, we should be guaranteed to go onebetter now we've increased the price of corporate then.

KenilworthSkyBlue · Jun 20, 2023

skyblu3sk said:
Another thing I'd missed is the boxes are also only on sale to existing holders until the 3rd of July so the only boxes currently sold will be repurchases.

Yes we were given exclusivity. We'll have to see what the waiting list brings in terms of intake. The only issue is, as mentioned the vast majority would've likely been on there under the premise that the previous prices were going to be more or less in place.

As such I'd assume there's been a similar significant drop-off but as said we'll have to wait and see. I'm certainly not confident though.

skyblu3sk · Jun 20, 2023

KenilworthSkyBlue said:
Yes we were given exclusivity. We'll have to see what the waiting list brings in terms of intake. The only issue is, as mentioned the vast majority would've likely been on there under the premise that the previous prices were going to be more or less in place.

As such I'd assume there's been a similar significant drop-off but as said we'll have to wait and see. I'm certainly not confident though.

One thing I had spotted with the addition of things like The Mill at £750 that's great value at £32.60 per match to be out the general hubbub can see that having high take up.

GIMOC · Jun 20, 2023

croatskyblue said:
Is ‘everyone’ saying that it’s a masterplan? You are lying. And it’s nothing to do with sisu, they are irrelevant, but if that’s the warped logic you need to apply in order to have a little whine about King then fair enough

again, it’s an opinion. I believe if sisu were still here the response would have been completely different. King is playing a good PR game but what matters most is what happens with players coming in over the summer, players potentially leaving and what happens on the pitch.

Deity · Jun 20, 2023

clint van damme said:
We came within a kick of been back in the prem last season, we should be guaranteed to go onebetter now we've increased the price of corporate then.

That’s not how business works.

king recognises that we have one of the lowest playing budgets in the league and therefore if you look at history of promoted clubs the chances of us getting promoted are very slim, not impossible, but slim.

if you want to improve your chances of success you need to have a more compatible playing budget, attracting and where possible retaining better players. To do that you need to charge the going rate. If you wait to you are promoted then football finances suggest we are more likely to be relegated than promoted.

I’m happy to pay the going rate to improve the football I watch, improve our chances of promotion, and improve our chances of avoiding relegation.

I think it is a fair trade.

I still believe we will struggle to make the play offs because of the skew that the parachute payments make.

GIMOC · Jun 20, 2023

Deity said:
You are entitled to a different view even if it is more emotional than logical, and if it does smell a little of self interest.

Emotional? How? It hasn’t impacted me.it’s impacted people I know and these people put money in, sponsored players, games, kits etc… only for them for be told put more money in or we don’t want you anymore. how’s that self interest?

Matt smith · Jun 20, 2023

GIMOC said:
again, it’s an opinion. I believe if sisu were still here the response would have been completely different. King is playing a good PR game but what matters most is what happens with players coming in over the summer, players potentially leaving and what happens on the pitch.

He’ll get judged on a Saturday afternoon

djr8369 · Jun 20, 2023

KenilworthSkyBlue said:
This is what I don't really understand about his decision making. Fair enough if he had better calibre of corporate partners lined up to fill the boxes but he quite clearly doesn't.

Why then try to alienate his existing customer base when quite clearly he's relying on them to renew for the forthcoming season.

It's incredibly bizarre and I'm just not entirely sure what his expectation was...

If it turns out they don’t sell I would be in agreement. We don’t have all the information. I would hope they have some indication or research they can sell at this price.

GIMOC · Jun 20, 2023

Matt smith said:
He’ll get judged on a Saturday afternoon

exactly that. with the talk of wanting to compete in the top 6, with prices going up it adds extra pressure on mark and Adi. fans are fickle, he’s still in the honeymoon period thanks to the playoffs etc…

djr8369 · Jun 20, 2023

skyblu3sk said:
Another thing I'd missed is the boxes are also only on sale to existing holders until the 3rd of July so the only boxes currently sold will be repurchases.

Interesting.

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