Double decker crash (1 Viewer)

Nick said:

Surely there will be loads of CCTV anyway?

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Yeah you would imagine so. That plus data from the bus will probably be enough to piece it all together.

Nick said:

Surely there will be loads of CCTV anyway?

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The police will get to the bottom of it.

Like you said many CCTV cameras around that part of town, plus as I mentioned in an earlier post there are many cameras on buses these days and monitors on accelerator and brakes, speed of vehicle will be recorded, time of his last ticket issued.
Tachographs for those familiar with them are not fitted to service buses.

Nick said:

Surely there will be loads of CCTV anyway?

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I thought that. The police are still appealing for witnesses but with the data from the bus cameras and CCTV I would have thought they could pretty quickly work out what had happened.

Doesn't sound like a heart attack or anything like that so you'd have to think there's some mechanical failure involved.

chiefdave said:

I thought that. The police are still appealing for witnesses but with the data from the bus cameras and CCTV I would have thought they could pretty quickly work out what had happened.

Doesn't sound like a heart attack or anything like that so you'd have to think there's some mechanical failure involved.

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The company have ruled that out already so I would imagine there has be an admission for the driver. I would imagine he just hasn't hit the brakes, or has gone for the brakes and got the accelerator pedal. All in my opinion of course but it does happen a lot.

lewys33 said:

The company have ruled that out already so I would imagine there has be an admission for the driver. I would imagine he just hasn't hit the brakes, or has gone for the brakes and got the accelerator pedal. All in my opinion of course but it does happen a lot.

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Have they? Have you got a link?

Nick said:

Have they? Have you got a link?

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I can't find the exact one, think it was on sky news - but this statement kind of confirms it. All the attention is on the driver:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne...ntry-sainsburys-bus-crash-stagecoach-10198186

Nick said:

Have they? Have you got a link?

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It was something along the lines of this. So not an actual statement from the company to be fair:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...witnesses-claim-vehicle-travelling-60mph.html

" A Stagecoach source who worked at the same depot as Mr Chander said the bus had been impounded for examination, but added: ‘The management are not expecting any defects to be found with the vehicle.’ "

Ah I saw that bit too, didn't know if it was confirmed or not.

If it is all ok, then it is driver error.

Latest in the Telegraph.

Investigation into Coventry Sainsbury's bus crash expected to take 'several months'

Eight-year-old girl injured in the smash to have operation on her leg today.

Sumo the Micky Quinn said:

Latest in the Telegraph.

Investigation into Coventry Sainsbury's bus crash expected to take 'several months'

Eight-year-old girl injured in the smash to have operation on her leg today.

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Several months? With all the CCTV footage that is around the area? Why?

Otis said:

Several months? With all the CCTV footage that is around the area? Why?

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My reaction as well.

Sumo the Micky Quinn said:

My reaction as well.

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Could understand that more if the driver died, so his testimony was missing, but you have the driver, they can check the bus mechanics and they have the CCTC footage.

Otis said:

Could understand that more if the driver died, so his testimony was missing, but you have the driver, they can check the bus mechanics and they have the CCTC footage.

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Something isn't right here. What with the appeal for more witnesses and now saying it will take months. There's all the footage and data from the bus, there will be CCTV both on the crash site and the approach, you can speak to the driver and the surviving passengers and numerous eye witnesses.

Would have thought it would be a very quick and easy task to establish what happened.

Otis said:

Several months? With all the CCTV footage that is around the area? Why?

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It is perfect run it for months cost ten of thousands and come to the same conclusion you would have if you spent half a day on it, same when there is a crash on the motorway they close it for hours, I saw a show once where the copper had a big smile on his face while saying the motorway will be closed for 24 hours.

this is a sad enough time for the families without having it all raked up again months down the line.

I have found when dealing with police investigations through work that they do like to take their time, unless they want something from you.

Decided to bump this as it has been a year since this happened and there is still no conclusion to the investigation.
On the Midlands news the police quote is that it is a very complex and long investigation, if my boy had died in this crash and a year later that was all they could come up with i wouldn't be very happy at all, they have the drivers evidence, cctv, and witnesses, what more can they possibly need.

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Still not sure how it is complex.

Was the bus dodgy, was the driver dodgy...

How difficult can it be really. It shouldn't take too long to work out if its a mechanical issue and work from there.

Live: Bus driver charged over Sainsbury's horror crash in court

Bus driver charged over Sainsbury's horror crash in court

What's the maximum sentence?
A person convicted of causing death by dangerous driving is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years.

Disqualification for a minimum of two years is obligatory on conviction.

The maximum sentence for causing serious injury by dangerous driving is five years.

However it’s likely that if Chander admits both charges, or is convicted of both charges, both sentences will be wrapped up together as one, rather than being served consecutively.

If he is 79 now, will they send him down for it still?

Not fit to plea, delayed and released on bail.

Nick said:

Not fit to plea, delayed and released on bail.

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Can we not whip down the gym sharpish for a quick tone up?

Otis said:

Can we not whip down the gym sharpish for a quick tone up?

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Can see it being dragged out with that or playing on his age to get around it.

He was (apparently) fit enough to drive a bus with passengers on a couple of years ago but can't enter a plea now.

Nick said:

If he is 79 now, will they send him down for it still?

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Why shouldn't they? People who are older have been sent down for historical offenses.

Nick said:

If he is 79 now, will they send him down for it still?

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It would be a sad way to see out your last years, the real guilty parties being those who permit somebody that old to drive a bus full of people.

Do we know any details yet? Why he drove into Sainsbury‘s for example? What was he doing at the time? It’s not as if there was dense fog or you could overlook Sainsbury‘s. No other drivers managed to smash into Sainsbury’s. Was he Ill?

Johnnythespider said:

It would be a sad way to see out your last years, the real guilty parties being those who permit somebody that old to drive a bus full of people.

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Or arrogantly believing you could do a job like that at such an age.

martcov said:

Do we know any details yet? Why he drove into Sainsbury‘s for example? What was he doing at the time? It’s not as if there was dense fog or you could overlook Sainsbury‘s. No other drivers managed to smash into Sainsbury’s. Was he Ill?

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From reading an earlier post.
Stagecoach confirmed it was the 17,33 X18 service.
The accident happened at 17.57. So was running very late, as it is only seconds from the motor museum (the start of this journey) to Sainsbury's. So why was he late, there was an accident on the A46 which would have diverted traffic into Warwick, disrupting this service throughout the day.

Stagecoach also appeared in court:
Bus firm admits guilt over Sainsbury's crash which killed two.
"A bus operator has expressed its sorrow over a fatal crash after failing to prevent risks of "driver error" linked to fatigue and excessive working hours.

Midland Red (South) Ltd pleaded guilty to two charges brought under Health and Safety law after an inquiry into the 2015 deaths of a passenger and a pedestrian in Coventry city centre."

This could mean he agreed to overtime which would have taken him over his legal driving hours, allowing him to be tired.
The regulations for driving a service bus (GB Domestic Rules) is different to driving a coach or lorry. Coaches & Lorries are regulatated by EU driving rules which says how many hours per day & how many days per week you can drive.

GB domestic rules
Passenger-carrying vehicles
Duty time
If you work as a driver for a company, duty time is any working time. If you’re self-employed, duty time is only time you spend driving the vehicle or doing other work related to the vehicle or its load.

Breaks and continuous driving
After 5 hours 30 minutes of driving you must take a break of at least 30 minutes for rest and refreshment.

Or, within any period of 8 hours 30 minutes, you must take at least 45 minutes in breaks. You must also have a break of at least 30 minutes at the end of this period, unless it’s the end of the working day.

Length of working day (‘spreadover’)
You must not work more than 16 hours between the times of starting and finishing work - including non driving work and any times when you’re off.

Daily rest periods
You must take a rest of 10 hours before the first duty and immediately after the last duty in a working week.

You must take a rest of at least 10 hours between 2 working days (or spreadovers) - this can be reduced to 8.5 hours up to 3 times a week.

All duties must start and finish within a 24-hour period.

Fortnightly rest periods
Every 2 weeks you must take at least one period of 24 hours off duty.


EU rules
Driving hours

The main EU rules on driving hours are that you must not drive more than:

• 9 hours in a day - this can be extended to 10 hours twice a week
• 56 hours in a week
• 90 hours in any 2 consecutive weeks

All driving you do under EU rules must be recorded on a tachograph.

Breaks and rest
The main points of EU rules on breaks and rest are that you must take:

• at least 11 hours rest every day - you can reduce this to 9 hours rest 3 times between any 2 weekly rest periods
• an unbroken rest period of 45 hours every week - you can reduce this to 24 hours every other week
• a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes after no more than 4 hours 30 minutes driving
• your weekly rest after 6 consecutive 24-hour periods of working, starting from the end of the last weekly rest period taken

Coach drivers on an international trip can take their weekly rest after 12 consecutive 24-hour periods, starting from the end of the last weekly rest period taken.

Johnnythespider said:

It would be a sad way to see out your last years, the real guilty parties being those who permit somebody that old to drive a bus full of people.

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I agree. And if it was through illness then he should be left alone. But if he was driving dangerously and it can be proven then I have to disagree.

Evidence emerging is quite staggering. Not only was the driver recklessly endangering other peoples lives by continuing to drive when he was past it but the bus company should have terminated him some years earlier.
Live: Sainsbury's bus crash driver deemed unfit to stand trial

Unfit to stand trial. What a shame.

Captain Dart said:

Evidence emerging is quite staggering. Not only was the driver recklessly endangering other peoples lives by continuing to drive when he was past it but the bus company should have terminated him some years earlier.
Live: Sainsbury's bus crash driver deemed unfit to stand trial

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The sheer number of working hours as a driver. I thought as a rule you can only drive up to 9 hours a day in the EU. Exceptions are allowed for the occasional longer day. There has to be a break between days of 11 hours to sleep and recover. How did he do it? Or is it different for bus drivers? Maximum without a break is 4,5 hours, Break is 45 minutes.

Didn't he plead unfit from the start?

If he can't stand trial, why was he driving a bus? The bus company need to take some of the blame.

Otis said:

Unfit to stand trial. What a shame.

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Same as he was too busy to attend a meeting about his driving.