Do you want to discuss boring politics? (11 Viewers)

[CCFCSteve]

The Bond Market Bluff

Every time someone in British politics proposes funding public services properly, the bond markets get wheeled out like a loaded gun. Spend more on the NHS and the markets will panic. Hire more teachers and investors will flee. Suggest running a larger deficit and the warnings become...

vincegomez.com

An article with a lot of truths but also some misconceptions and intentionally missing some basic facts (and if I am being less kind, including some untruths). Unfortunately this is what will be going around on social media and people will latch onto it because it aligns to their own political thinking and/or because it makes everything sound, well, a lot easier

....and before you know it, the Greens are probably basing their manifesto around it.

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

An article with a lot of truths but also some misconceptions and intentionally missing some basic facts (and if I am being less kind, including some untruths). Unfortunately this is what will be going around on social media and people will latch onto it because it aligns to their own political thinking and/or because it makes everything sound, well, a lot easier

....and before you know it, the Greens are probably basing their manifesto around it.

Yeah, but the counter argument is you've got a group of people who will intentionally make things shit if government decide to invest in their people rather than looking after investors already sizeable wallets.

And then we wonder why everything is shit and doesn't work and why despite there apparently being more wealth than ever we've got more people in poverty and people needing to use food banks to get buy.

Stop pandering to the greedy. selfish arseholes, or we're just going to go further and further down the shitter. Until one day the people decide they've had enough and all hell breaks loose.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Yeah, but the counter argument is you've got a group of people who will intentionally make things shit if government decide to invest in their people rather than looking after investors already sizeable wallets.

And then we wonder why everything is shit and doesn't work and why despite there apparently being more wealth than ever we've got more people in poverty and people needing to use food banks to get buy.

Stop pandering to the greedy. selfish arseholes, or we're just going to go further and further down the shitter. Until one day the people decide they've had enough and all hell breaks loose.

I’ve said everyone’s got to pay more tax to get the public services we want/expect*. That’s hardly pandering. My issue with things like the attached is they’re almost suggesting we can get everything we want with minimal pain/cost. I just don’t think that’s possible for all the reasons I’ve given previously; aging, unhealthy demographic, developed slow growth economy, huge debt servicing cost (when compared to growth). let alone energy transition, threats of wars etc

Unless there’s is a material improvement in productivity (and growth) then it doesn’t matter which monetary theory people want to use, it’s going to cost everyone more


*FD - whether that is tax to directly contribute towards paying for public services, welfare etc or tax to help manage inflation as a lot of MMTers propose.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’ve said everyone’s got to pay more tax to get the public services we want/expect*. That’s hardly pandering. My issue with things like the attached is they’re almost suggesting we can get everything we want with minimal pain/cost. I just don’t think that’s possible for all the reasons I’ve given previously; aging, unhealthy demographic, developed slow growth economy, huge debt servicing cost (when compared to growth). let alone energy transition, threats of wars etc

Unless there’s is a material improvement in productivity (and growth) then it doesn’t matter which monetary theory people want to use, it’s going to cost everyone more


*FD - whether that is tax to directly contribute towards paying for public services, welfare etc or tax to help manage inflation as a lot of MMTers propose.

In your view what would improve our productivity?

 

[CCFCSteve]

In your view what would improve our productivity?

All the usual stuff encourage business investment, better infrastructure* (everything just getting bogged down/more costly with planning, consultations etc though), cheaper energy solutions for businesses, ensuring public sector, well NHS, cash is spent wisely on maximising delivery of services

I’ve mentioned numerous times we’ve needed some kind of industrial/employment strategy for years which would help match education/training ie maximising youth and employee skills with industries and public sector requirements. Instead we’ve just encouraged high uni numbers when many could/would be better off going into apprenticeships or vocational training and plugged massive skills gaps with cheap imported labour. Just inefficient and a drain on productivity as we then have more people in total and loads just sat at home or in jobs with untapped skills/potential


*Cross party solutions and agreed long term funding/investment on certain public sector challenges.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

All the usual stuff encourage business investment, better infrastructure* (everything just getting bogged down/more costly with planning, consultations etc though), cheaper energy solutions for businesses, ensuring public sector, well NHS, cash is spent wisely on maximising delivery of services

I’ve mentioned numerous times we’ve needed some kind of industrial/employment strategy for years which would help match education/training ie maximising youth and employee skills with industries and public sector requirements. Instead we’ve just encouraged high uni numbers when many could/would be better off going into apprenticeships or vocational training and plugged massive skills gaps with cheap imported labour. Just inefficient and a drain on productivity as we then have more people in total and loads just sat at home or in jobs with untapped skills/potential


*Cross party solutions and agreed long term funding/investment on certain public sector challenges.

The importance of joining up industry/employment demands with education has been spoken about for at least 50 years but not acted upon.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

All the usual stuff encourage business investment, better infrastructure* (everything just getting bogged down/more costly with planning, consultations etc though), cheaper energy solutions for businesses, ensuring public sector, well NHS, cash is spent wisely on maximising delivery of services

I’ve mentioned numerous times we’ve needed some kind of industrial/employment strategy for years which would help match education/training ie maximising youth and employee skills with industries and public sector requirements. Instead we’ve just encouraged high uni numbers when many could/would be better off going into apprenticeships or vocational training and plugged massive skills gaps with cheap imported labour. Just inefficient and a drain on productivity as we then have more people in total and loads just sat at home or in jobs with untapped skills/potential


*Cross party solutions and agreed long term funding/investment on certain public sector challenges.

Some of those things you mention are given as reasons why the bond market throw a hissy fit. Spending public money on things such as infrastructure, energy, health and education. Keep getting told it's not affordable and borrowing will go up. Unless of course it's given to private enterprise, in which case it's ok. And of course jacks the price up obscenely so they can profit, meaning we need even more increased taxes or borrowing to pay for it. More coming out of ordinary pockets to go into the hands of the wealthy.

It's a racket using bond and share prices to scare and bully people. "Nice economy you've got there. Shame if something were to happen to it..."

*Not sure why you specified cheaper energy solutions for businesses specifically? Why not for everyone? Less being spent on energy gives them more to spend elsewhere in the economy.