Do you want to discuss boring politics? (27 Viewers)

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
It’s absurd tbh. We have a woman who sells burgers on the state and the cooking oil price trebled. Oddly she’s still there.

it’s policies I suspect you support that’s fucked him over
I support higher NMW and have said I would have zero problem paying a bit more to eat somewhere as a result.

I don’t recall saying I support higher NI contributions and have also said I want VAT either cut or eliminated.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I support higher NMW and have said I would have zero problem paying a bit more to eat somewhere as a result.

I don’t recall saying I support higher NI contributions and have also said I want VAT either cut or eliminated.

The increase in NMW is totally fucking the sector he operates in
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
The increase in NMW is totally fucking the sector he operates in
He can raise prices. The fact is in his case he’s competing alongside countless other similar businesses for a not very large number of customers.

People can’t complain about people choosing benefits over employment while also arguing against better wages.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Not in isolation. Business Rates is the thing to reform or get rid of. Pay people a living wage, bin off or massively reform other stuff incl. VAT.

Forcing businesses like his to increase the minimum wage has a huge impact - bigger businesses can totally swallow it but smaller businesses have then the decision to reduce staff - it’s a massive problem to hike wages above natural inflation levels for people like him
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
He can raise prices. The fact is in his case he’s competing alongside countless other similar businesses for a not very large number of customers.

People can’t complain about people choosing benefits over employment while also arguing against better wages.

“he can raise prices” fuck me - do you know why people go and buy from Amazon?
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
Forcing businesses like his to increase the minimum wage has a huge impact - bigger businesses can totally swallow it but smaller businesses have then the decision to reduce staff - it’s a massive problem to hike wages above natural inflation levels for people like him

Don't disagree, but I'd ease pressures on businesses like his in any way I could that wasn't at the expense of paying a living wage. It's a non negotiable for me.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
People go and buy fried chicken from Amazon?

They buy fried chicken from KFC as it’s cheap with Squeezed prices to suppliers and poor quality.

Do you think if they ran a national campaign saying they’d increase wages and quality standards and the customer pays more they’d increase their profits?
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
They buy fried chicken from KFC as it’s cheap with Squeezed prices to suppliers and poor quality.

Do you think if they ran a national campaign saying they’d increase wages and quality standards and the customer pays more they’d increase their profits?
I haven’t eaten at KFC since I was a student because it’s shite, if they ran a national campaign about better quality food I’d try it yes.

I’ve lived in Leamington for nearly 7 years and today was the first I’d heard of his restaurant.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I haven’t eaten at KFC since I was a student because it’s shite, if they ran a national campaign about better quality food I’d try it yes.

I’ve lived in Leamington for nearly 7 years and today was the first I’d heard of his restaurant.

Oddly you aren’t the barometer for people and their purchase decisions. KFC last I heard sells a bit of chicken. Amazon treats its employees like shit and people are fine with it as long as the purchase price remains low
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Oddly you aren’t the barometer for people and their purchase decisions. KFC last I heard sells a bit of chicken. Amazon treats its employees like shit and people are fine with it as long as the purchase price remains low
Why are they allowed to treat employees badly do you think?
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that I'm pretty certain the fella in question also owns one or two other spots in Leam, and this was the most recently opened and niche of them. Drawing Board is one. Not sold on this being the best example of taxes and legislation killing a business single handedly. It's a mad location which has failed at least once as a restaurant before (basement, hard to see even if you walk past slowly).
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member

Grendel

Well-Known Member

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
You honestly think a centre right government freezes higher rate tax thresholds, increases CGT, changes IHT regime targeting wealthy, increases tax rate on dividends, makes non dom rules even more aggressive and increases emp’er NIC as a combination of policies/decisions in their first 18 months of government…all whilst leaving welfare (excluding pensions), which is forecast to increase significantly over the remainder of the parliament, pretty much untouched ?

Since the election lowest earners have predominantly been protected by tax rises (which I agree with), middle earners have been hit, highest earners probably hit hardest due to wider (non income) tax changes. Is that your usual centre right government ? Also you can argue that the PLP stopped additional changes to welfare but ultimately they’re part of the government

Ps I’ve avoided judging policy decisions because that isn’t the point of my original post, which was this is not a centre right goverment whatever you read on socials
Steve, you’re being deliberately selective with your evidence. They froze all tax thresholds not just the top one. It dragged and extra 1.7 million low earners into paying income tax for the first time. Freezing ALL, I’ll say that again as you keep dismissing it, ALL tax thresholds is not a leftist policy. If they raised all except the top I’d give it to you, no argument but taxing those with the least ability to pay it is a right wing policy.

CGT, we have far from the highest CGT in Europe and look at the countries who have low or none, there’s a reason they’re so low , they’re either poor, corrupt and/or tax exiles. We’re one of the richest countries in the world with high percentage of millionaires, we should have high levels of CGT for the purpose of checks and balances and you could quite easily argue that they would be much much higher if we had a leftist government when you look to countries who actually do.

IHT, see above. Also our IHT is exactly the same as the USA. Are you seriously going to suggest that the USA are a leftist government.

Tax on dividends. See above again. We’re hardly high again compared to comparable countries and yet again we’re almost identical to that well known communist country the USA.

Something like 10% of GDP equates to the welfare state. It’s pitiful when compared to other countries and nowhere near actual leftist countries and the USA’s as a percentage of GDP is almost 3 times higher than ours

NI. Same again, compare us to comparable countries, we ain’t no leftist country with a leftist government.

Proportionally to wealth no one has been hit harder than the poorest, they’ve proportionally had the biggest increases to taxes, the biggest cuts in welfare state and hit hardest by the cost of living. This government is about as leftist as I’m a China man. You need to start comparing us to actual socialist countries and actual right wing countries. We have far more in common in terms of governance with the right wing countries than we do the socialist and Labour are not shifting the dial back by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Steve, you’re being deliberately selective with your evidence. They froze all tax thresholds not just the top one. It dragged and extra 1.7 million low earners into paying income tax for the first time. Freezing ALL, I’ll say that again as you keep dismissing it, ALL tax thresholds is not a leftist policy. If they raised all except the top I’d give it to you, no argument but taxing those with the least ability to pay it is a right wing policy.

CGT, we have far from the highest CGT in Europe and look at the countries who have low or none, there’s a reason they’re so low , they’re either poor, corrupt and/or tax exiles. We’re one of the richest countries in the world with high percentage of millionaires, we should have high levels of CGT for the purpose of checks and balances and you could quite easily argue that they would be much much higher if we had a leftist government when you look to countries who actually do.

IHT, see above. Also our IHT is exactly the same as the USA. Are you seriously going to suggest that the USA are a leftist government.

Tax on dividends. See above again. We’re hardly high again compared to comparable countries and yet again we’re almost identical to that well known communist country the USA.

I’m not being selective at all. The freezing of the personal allowance (which I don’t agree with by the way) was likely pretty much offset for many by the increase in NMW and UC allowance increases. My point was that the largest increase in tax burden fell on middle and higher earners. I think you need to look again at the IHT comparison between Uk and USA. My understanding is that we have a £325k exemption. They have a £15m exemption (federal level). So a bizarre comparison

You can keep saying stuff like ‘but it’s still not as high as them’ but you’re ignoring my point/question which was would a centre right party have brought in ALL of those policy decisions in the first 18 months of government ?

Anyway enjoy your Easter as I’ve got to leave it there as I’m spending way too much time having these weird conversations
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I’m not being selective at all. The freezing of the personal allowance (which I don’t agree with by the way) was likely pretty much offset for many by the increase in NMW and UC allowance increases. My point was that the largest increase in tax burden fell on middle and higher earners. I think you need to look again at the IHT comparison between Uk and USA. My understanding is that we have a £325k exemption. They have a £15m exemption (federal level). So a bizarre comparison

You can keep saying stuff like ‘but it’s still not as high as them’ but you’re ignoring my point/question which was would a centre right party have brought in ALL of those policy decisions in the first 18 months of government ?

Anyway enjoy your Easter as I’ve got to leave it there as I’m spending way too much time having these weird conversations
You’re being selective again. Relevant to earnings the wealthiest got away lightly compared to low and middle earners. They’ve had it all their own way for too long and this Labour government has not turned the clock back. Look at capital gains tax in isolation if you want for evidence. It’s at a lower rate and threshold now than it was when it was first introduced by an actual leftist labour government in the 60’s and it’s lower than it was under Chairman Thatcher. This government is not punishing the wealthiest either in terms of rates, thresholds and certainty not proportionally to income. You’re trying to argue that this government is left wing when it’s not even as left wing as the Thatcher government.

You demonstrate perfectly how far the dial has been moved to the right when a Labour government that in reality is more right wing than Thatchers government certainly in terms of taxation and you’re trying to argue that they’re a leftist government. Sorry Steve but it’s just bollocks and relative to actual socialist governments you sound a bit silly arguing otherwise.

I hope you have a good Easter to
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
You’re being selective again. Relevant to earnings the wealthiest got away lightly compared to low and middle earners. They’ve had it all their own way for too long and this Labour government has not turned the clock back. Look at capital gains tax in isolation if you want for evidence. It’s at a lower rate and threshold now than it was when it was first introduced by an actual leftist labour government in the 60’s and it’s lower than it was under Chairman Thatcher. This government is not punishing the wealthiest either in terms of rates, thresholds and certainty not proportionally to income. You’re trying to argue that this government is left wing when it’s not even as left wing as the Thatcher government.

You demonstrate perfectly how far the dial has been moved to the right when a Labour government is more right wing than Thatchers government certainly in terms of taxation and your trying to argue that they’re a leftist government. Sorry Steve but it’s just bollocks and relative to actual socialist governments you sound a bit silly arguing otherwise.

I hope you have a good Easter to

Tonester you admitted to earn a salary of £20 grand when most people wouldn’t even get out of bed for it. You voted Tory
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Tonester you admitted to earn a salary of £20 grand when most people wouldn’t even get out of bed for it. You voted Tory
And the relevance of that to understanding that this government has more right wing policies than the Thatcher government is…


Zero relevance. You’re trying to play the man because you can’t play the ball.

Tax rates are well documented, show me some facts and figures that demonstrate otherwise. You can’t because they don’t exist. CGT was raised to 40% by Thatchers government, currently 18% at the lower rate and 24% at the higher rate. IHT 40% under thatcher 40% today. Tax rates were at times higher, much higher under thatcher and higher under the Blair Brown government aka Thatchers self proclaimed biggest success. In common with Thatchers government this Labour government is also in the habit of freezing the thresholds, pure Thatcherism.
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
I just feel like the tax system needs a bit of creativity in general. An example I’ve thought of is rolling council tax and stamp duty into one ‘property tax’. Not long back I did some sums (based on ONS data, etc) and I reckon we could raise enough to cover current average stamp duty takings and locally funded social care costs by changing this model; instead of lump sum income through SDLT you regularise it which *should* result in a more liquid housing market. From the sums I did, A-D properties you could pay (on average) less than currently, E it tips over slightly but not meaningfully, then F and G is where it starts to tip the scales. Key issue, of course, is that Band F properties in London and Sunderland (if they have any) will be worlds away in value.

I think some of what we’ve done over the course of time has moved so far away from using taxation to incentivise/disincentivise behaviour and just became a cash grab.
 

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