Do you want to discuss boring politics? (30 Viewers)

[Grendel]

What’s going on?

Major concerns raised over voting at Gorton and Denton by-election

www.independent.co.uk

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

People vote Reform partly because of these lazy slurs people like you make and offer zero alternatives to the people who will vote for them. You would just come across if you did talk to the average Reform voter as a condescending snob frankly.

If they considered us to be condescending snobs then that's on them. If loads of people thought the Earth was flat should we just pander to that? From the G&D by-election I thought you weren't a fan of pandering to people and telling them what they want to hear just to get their votes?

If people want to call me a condescending twat because they can't be arsed to engage their brain, so be it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If they considered us to be condescending snobs then that's on them. If loads of people thought the Earth was flat should we just pander to that? From the G&D by-election I thought you weren't a fan of pandering to people and telling them what they want to hear just to get their votes?

If people want to call me a condescending twat because they can't be arsed to engage their brain, so be it.

Farage dresses like a member of the landed gentry to be clear.

 

[Grendel]

I don't believe I've said there aren't any dodgy fuckers in Labour or the Greens. Sadly they are in all walks of life.

But reform just seems to be absolutely chock full of them.

As I say, crying electoral fraud is at best pathetic and at worst dangerous.

Ooops

Labour want officials to examine reports over voting in Gorton and Denton by-election

Labour chairwoman Anna Turley reacts to a report by Democracy Volunteers that claimed to observe high levels of ‘family voting’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[skybluetony176]

The meltdown on the right has been hilarious today. The best one being George Galloway handed the Greens the win by not fielding a candidate and then backing the Greens. Unfortunately the numbers don’t add up. The workers party got 3766 votes at the GE. Even on the assumption that all 3766 voters only voted Green on Galloways say so which in itself is a big assumption the fact remains that even without those votes the Greens still would have won by about 700 votes. Unless you want to believe 3766 voters who voted for the workers party last time would have voted for Reform had Galloway not told them to vote Green, which is just ridiculous.

Bunch of sore losing entitled melts.

 

[Grendel]

The meltdown on the right has been hilarious today. The best one being George Galloway handed the Greens the win by not fielding a candidate and then backing the Greens. Unfortunately the numbers don’t add up. The workers party got 3766 votes at the GE. Even on the assumption that all 3766 voters only voted Green on Galloways say so which in itself is a big assumption the fact remains that even without those votes the Greens still would have won by about 700 votes. Unless you want to believe 3766 voters who voted for the workers party last time would have voted for Reform had Galloway not told them to vote Green, which is just ridiculous.

Bunch of sore losing entitled melts.

Where you sitting tomorrow Tonester? Assume you managed to get a ticket.

 

[PVA]

Ooops

Labour want officials to examine reports over voting in Gorton and Denton by-election

Labour chairwoman Anna Turley reacts to a report by Democracy Volunteers that claimed to observe high levels of ‘family voting’

www.independent.co.uk

Oops what?

As I said, no reports from the council of this apparent electoral fraud. No reports from the police. No reports from any polling staff.

Why wait till after to raise it?

 

[Grendel]

Oops what?

As I said, no reports from the council of this apparent electoral fraud. No reports from the police. No reports from any polling staff.

Why wait till after to raise it?

Eh? The volunteer group are entirely independent and said they made a decision to only report after the event as they felt they didn’t feel comfortable confronting the people they suspected until after the election.

Why has Labour now commented?

 

[Philosoraptor]

Look's like Starmer has had all his Union flags confiscated after this by-election mayhem.

 

[PVA]

Eh? The volunteer group are entirely independent and said they made a decision to only report after the event as they felt they didn’t feel comfortable confronting the people they suspected until after the election.

Why has Labour now commented?

That's a pathetic excuse. They didn't have to confront the people they suspected - they should have called the police if they witnessed a crime, and/or report it to staff. They did neither.

 

[Nick]

That's a pathetic excuse. They didn't have to confront the people they suspected - they should have called the police if they witnessed a crime, and/or report it to staff. They did neither.

Mr Ault reportedly told Sky News that observers “did raise the issue of family voting with individual presiding officers during the day before we left or when they were not busy.”

 

[PVA]

Won't let me quote you there @Nick for some reason.

That's such a non committal statement. They 'raised the issue' - great, so did they report individual instances and offences? Or did they just say 'look out for family voting'


Electoral fraud is such a serious issue, the police should have been called immediately. It just doesn't add up whatsoever.

 

[Grendel]

Won't let me quote you there @Nick for some reason.

That's such a non committal statement. They 'raised the issue' - great, so did they report individual instances and offences? Or did they just say 'look out for family voting'


Electoral fraud is such a serious issue, the police should have been called immediately. It just doesn't add up whatsoever.

So these volunteers are lying? The guardian who are now reporting it are lying?

Wow!

 

[PVA]

So these volunteers are lying? The guardian who are now reporting it are lying?

Wow!

Missing the point as usual.

Thicker than the glass at the zoo.

 

[Grendel]

Missing the point as usual.

Thicker than the glass at the zoo.

It’s clear you are struggling on this one.

 

[Nick]

Won't let me quote you there @Nick for some reason.

That's such a non committal statement. They 'raised the issue' - great, so did they report individual instances and offences? Or did they just say 'look out for family voting'


Electoral fraud is such a serious issue, the police should have been called immediately. It just doesn't add up whatsoever.

Ay?

they should have called the police if they witnessed a crime, and/or report it to staff. They did neither.

did raise the issue of family voting with individual presiding officers during the day before we left or when they were not busy.

Thats literally reporting it to staff.

 

[Grendel]

Ay?





Thats literally reporting it to staff.

Police are now looking at the evidence, I think to fair to him it must be devastating to learn his hero Starmer is total shite and even less popular than old Boris

 

[skybluetony176]

You’d be stupid to claim “family voting” doesn’t happen, it’s always happened, I remember my gran used to have to vote for whoever my grandad told as he was the man of the house. It happens, it’s always happened and it always will happen.

The suggestion here is that it only benefitted one side, which is of course complete bollocks.

At the last general election my eldest missed out on being eligible to vote by a matter of weeks being one of the youngest in her school year. One of her friends was old enough was driven to the polling station by her parents and told in no uncertain terms to vote Reform, which she did. The only example I personally know of since my grandfather died which led to my gran voting Labour for the first time in her life as this particular grandfather was a Tory.

Who’s to say that the family voting apparently witnessed wasn’t right wing extremists making their family vote Reform? After all, reform won over 10000 votes and nearly 29% of the vote share. Surely no one is dumb enough to believe that not one single husband wasn’t telling the wife and kids to vote Reform and then either supervising their postal votes or chauffeuring them together to the polling station with instructions on how to vote.

I’d also point out that young voters really don’t need that much encouragement to vote green, most of them are already there. Take my daughters friend for instance, she left home for Uni, is now in a different environment where GB news isn’t the staple and is now a Green Party member who’s more than a little embarrassed that she allowed her parents to strong arm her into voting Reform at the general election.

We’ve also been here before with Boris’ voter ID reforms to stop people voting by claiming they’re someone else at the polling station. When the actual data came out in those circumstances (aside from the fact that it happened so little it changed absolutely fuck all in any election anywhere ever in the UK) it turned out that the biggest perpetrators were on the right.

 

[Grendel]

You’d be stupid to claim “family voting” doesn’t happen, it’s always happened, I remember my gran used to have to vote for whoever my grandad told as he was the man of the house. It happens, it’s always happened and it always will happen.

The suggestion here is that it only benefitted one side, which is of course complete bollocks.

At the last general election my eldest missed out on being eligible to vote by a matter of weeks being one of the youngest in her school year. One of her friends was old enough was driven to the polling station by her parents and told in no uncertain terms to vote Reform, which she did. The only example I personally know of since my grandfather died which led to my gran voting Labour for the first time in her life as this particular grandfather was a Tory.

Who’s to say that the family voting apparently witnessed wasn’t right wing extremists making their family vote Reform? After all, reform won over 10000 votes and nearly 29% of the vote share. Surely no one is dumb enough to believe that not one single husband wasn’t telling the wife and kids to vote Reform and then either supervising their postal votes or chauffeuring them together to the polling station with instructions on how to vote.

I’d also point out that young voters really don’t need that much encouragement to vote green, most of them are already there. Take my daughters friend for instance, she left home for Uni, is now in a different environment where GB news isn’t the staple and is now a Green Party member who’s more than a little embarrassed that she allowed her parents to strong arm her into voting Reform at the general election.

We’ve also been here before with Boris’ voter ID reforms to stop people voting by claiming they’re someone else at the polling station. When the actual data came out in those circumstances (aside from the fact that it happened so little it changed absolutely fuck all in any election anywhere ever in the UK) it turned out that the biggest perpetrators were on the right.

You do know what the actual term means as an offence?

 

[rob9872]

You’d be stupid to claim “family voting” doesn’t happen, it’s always happened, I remember my gran used to have to vote for whoever my grandad told as he was the man of the house. It happens, it’s always happened and it always will happen.

The suggestion here is that it only benefitted one side, which is of course complete bollocks.

At the last general election my eldest missed out on being eligible to vote by a matter of weeks being one of the youngest in her school year. One of her friends was old enough was driven to the polling station by her parents and told in no uncertain terms to vote Reform, which she did. The only example I personally know of since my grandfather died which led to my gran voting Labour for the first time in her life as this particular grandfather was a Tory.

Who’s to say that the family voting apparently witnessed wasn’t right wing extremists making their family vote Reform? After all, reform won over 10000 votes and nearly 29% of the vote share. Surely no one is dumb enough to believe that not one single husband wasn’t telling the wife and kids to vote Reform and then either supervising their postal votes or chauffeuring them together to the polling station with instructions on how to vote.

I’d also point out that young voters really don’t need that much encouragement to vote green, most of them are already there. Take my daughters friend for instance, she left home for Uni, is now in a different environment where GB news isn’t the staple and is now a Green Party member who’s more than a little embarrassed that she allowed her parents to strong arm her into voting Reform at the general election.

We’ve also been here before with Boris’ voter ID reforms to stop people voting by claiming they’re someone else at the polling station. When the actual data came out in those circumstances (aside from the fact that it happened so little it changed absolutely fuck all in any election anywhere ever in the UK) it turned out that the biggest perpetrators were on the right.

As I understand it, family voting is just a reference and was witnessed at the ballot box not someone telling their spouse or friends who to vote for.

 

[rob9872]

"In the other recent Westminster parliamentary by-election in Runcorn and Helsby we saw family voting in 12% of polling stations, affecting 1% of voters. In Gorton and Denton, we observed family voting in 68% of polling stations, affecting 12% of those voters observed."

The group said their observers attended several polling stations and saw family voting in 15 of the 22 polling stations observed, 32 cases in total, with nine cases in one polling station alone. The team observed a sample of 545 voters casting their vote, meaning 12% of those voters observed either caused or were affected by family voting.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

As I understand it, family voting is just a reference and was witnessed at the ballot box not someone telling their spouse or friends who to vote for.

What does it mean Rob??

 

[rob9872]

What does it mean Rob??

Just posted an example above from 'Democracy Volunteers '

 

[Grendel]

As I understand it, family voting is just a reference and was witnessed at the ballot box not someone telling their spouse or friends who to vote for.

Why bother? It’s literal drivel and fabricated scenarios as ever. I’m surprised we didn’t hear about a “relative” of his who lived there and dragged his wife by the hair to vote reform.

I don’t understand why he’s on here spouting shite. At least when he bigged up Cameron and the tories and admitted being a Farage voter he was vaguely funny

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Why bother? It’s literal drivel and fabricated scenarios as ever. I’m surprised we didn’t hear about a “relative” of his who lived there and dragged his wife by the hair to vote reform.

I don’t understand why he’s on here spouting shite. At least when he bigged up Cameron and the tories and admitted being a Farage voter he was vaguely funny

Do you know what specifically it means Grendel?

 

[rob9872]

Do you know what specifically it means Grendel?

I believe it's actually watching over a vote to ensure that they actually vote the way they've been pressured to do so rather than a gentle suggestion. Could be wrong, but but that's how I interpret it.

 

[Grendel]

Do you know what specifically it means Grendel?

its someone standing over someone in the box while they actually vote abd observing the vote

 

[chiefdave]

You’d be stupid to claim “family voting” doesn’t happen, it’s always happened, I remember my gran used to have to vote for whoever my grandad told as he was the man of the house. It happens, it’s always happened and it always will happen.

It takes you seconds on the Demoncary Now website to discover this is something they seem to find at every single election. Thing is they report it happening in such large numbers pretty much everyone on here who votes would have witnessed it happen. Has anyone?

Maybe it is a widespread issue, and if it is it needs to be addressed and taken seriously, but it seems somewhat strange that this group see it everywhere they go yet election officers and police present don't. Even when the Conservatives were desperately looking for evidence of election fraud to bring in stricter ID requirements this never got a mention.

It only seems to have become an issue when Farage picked up on it and declared, in Trump-esque manner, that the election was fixed. Yet nobody seems to have been able to point to anything from Democracy Now to indicate that this benefited the Greens.

 

[Grendel]

I only heard about it on the Matt Chorley politics show. Someone in it said it’s not actually the correct term but it’s voter intimidation.

It seems cross party consensus agreed that two volunteers would observe behaviour in polling centres. This has come about as observations were that in certain areas there were far more instances than normal of the rule breaches whereby someone is basically telling another how to vote and for who

 

[Grendel]

It takes you seconds on the Demoncary Now website to discover this is something they seem to find at every single election. Thing is they report it happening in such large numbers pretty much everyone on here who votes would have witnessed it happen. Has anyone?

Maybe it is a widespread issue, and if it is it needs to be addressed and taken seriously, but it seems somewhat strange that this group see it everywhere they go yet election officers and police present don't. Even when the Conservatives were desperately looking for evidence of election fraud to bring in stricter ID requirements this never got a mention.

It only seems to have become an issue when Farage picked up on it and declared, in Trump-esque manner, that the election was fixed. Yet nobody seems to have been able to point to anything from Democracy Now to indicate that this benefited the Greens.

Amsterdam moment 3 in 24 hours!

 

[rob9872]

It takes you seconds on the Demoncary Now website to discover this is something they seem to find at every single election. Thing is they report it happening in such large numbers pretty much everyone on here who votes would have witnessed it happen. Has anyone?

Maybe it is a widespread issue, and if it is it needs to be addressed and taken seriously, but it seems somewhat strange that this group see it everywhere they go yet election officers and police present don't. Even when the Conservatives were desperately looking for evidence of election fraud to bring in stricter ID requirements this never got a mention.

It only seems to have become an issue when Farage picked up on it and declared, in Trump-esque manner, that the election was fixed. Yet nobody seems to have been able to point to anything from Democracy Now to indicate that this benefited the Greens.

It does, but independents say they normally observe 1% and this was 12%. 1% still too high and needs stamping out, but certainly a step change here. What you cant control either way though is postal votes so they could be influenced or even fabricated and cant be controlled.

 

[PVA]

Thats literally reporting it to staff.

Again, they 'raised the issue'. Is that reporting actual incidents or generally raising the point?

There's a massive difference.

There is also this:

During their time volunteering, the person said: “I saw one example but it was a family member helping their elderly relative into the booth, so this is where the grey line is as what actually is family voting.”

“I’d be interested in their methodology of what constitutes family voting, as the example above makes me wonder what is being reported,” they added.

If there are concerns then it should be investigated, no issue with that, it's only right.

But Farage claiming the election was rigged, greens cheated etc, is just pathetic Trumpism.

 

[rob9872]

Amsterdam moment 3 in 24 hours!

What is this? Keep seeing it mentioned. Windmilling?

 

[Marty]

Anybody enlighten me on the Amsterdam moment?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

She looks like she's taken something.