Do you want to discuss boring politics? (31 Viewers)

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Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
I think he could probably turn enough people round but he seems to have no desire to do anything other than emulate the tories and reform.

He's not going to gain many votes from Reform and in the process he's losing huge chunks of the people that voted Labour last time. Think we're past the ones who just voted because they wanted the current lot out and into long term Labour voters who just don't see the current direction of the party aligned with traditional Labour values.
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I'd be interested to know from some of his more right wing critics on here what he could do. Certainly things I can think of which would turn my opinion on him.
 
rob9872

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I'd be interested to know from some of his more right wing critics on here what he could do. Certainly things I can think of which would turn my opinion on him.
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I'm probably the wrong one to ask because I'm very unlikely to vote Labour and even less so for Starmer who I don't trust and don't like - sneering sniveling little scrote and still remember how he said the word Coventry that irritated me more than it should, anyway I digress...

What he could and should do, and what all leaders should do is quite simple. There is no great science, most of us want the same things and it's about how they are achieved, so I think we simply need to see some progress. Off the top of my head a few thoughts:

Fund the NHS properly and get more nurses
Bring back some order, recruit more police and dont have them wasting their time on silly laws that don't allow common sense
Low interest rates, low taxes, plenty of jobs
Fill the pot holes on the roads,
Give us a clean, reliable on time train service where we can get a seat without taking out a mortgage
Build more houses and get people off the streets
Deal with drug dealers and get the vermin off our streets for good
Find a way of controlling immigration and despite the boats only being a small percentage, stop those and keep the noise down
Make sure we have options for people on low or disability income where they don't need to rely on foodbanks, but don't give free passes to those who are able to play the system and take take take without contributing to society
Be honest, if you can't deliver it, say why and what you propose to change rather than lying and then achieving nothing

None of that is groundbreaking, I doubt may would disagree with the sentiment of the above (although I'm sure a few will want to pick some holes in it), but the point is, we need to see some progress to a few of those type things because that's (imo) a few off the top of my head things the public want to see.

Note I've not mentioned big finance, international trade, nuclear or defence spend, education or any other big topics that are also important, but no government in my lifetime has actually tried to progress some of the basic needs of the electorate. If they get on top of those, then they can be looking at the big stuff in the background that the average Joe doesn't need to be burdened with.
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
rob9872 said:
I'm probably the wrong one to ask because I'm very unlikely to vote Labour and even less so for Starmer who I don't trust and don't like - sneering sniveling little scrote and still remember how he said the word Coventry that irritated me more than it should, anyway I digress...

What he could and should do, and what all leaders should do is quite simple. There is no great science, most of us want the same things and it's about how they are achieved, so I think we simply need to see some progress. Off the top of my head a few thoughts:

Fund the NHS properly and get more nurses
Bring back some order, recruit more police and dont have them wasting their time on silly laws that don't allow common sense
Low interest rates, low taxes, plenty of jobs
Fill the pot holes on the roads,
Give us a clean, reliable on time train service where we can get a seat without taking out a mortgage
Build more houses and get people off the streets
Deal with drug dealers and get the vermin off our streets for good
Find a way of controlling immigration and despite the boats only being a small percentage, stop those and keep the noise down
Make sure we have options for people on low or disability income where they don't need to rely on foodbanks, but don't give free passes to those who are able to play the system and take take take without contributing to society
Be honest, if you can't deliver it, say why and what you propose to change rather than lying and then achieving nothing

None of that is groundbreaking, I doubt may would disagree with the sentiment of the above (although I'm sure a few will want to pick some holes in it), but the point is, we need to see some progress to a few of those type things because that's (imo) a few off the top of my head things the public want to see.

Note I've not mentioned big finance, international trade, nuclear or defence spend, education or any other big topics that are also important, but no government in my lifetime has actually tried to progress some of the basic needs of the electorate. If they get on top of those, then they can be looking at the big stuff in the background that the average Joe doesn't need to be burdened with.
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Do you feel you could be won around if he did those things?
 
Marty

Marty

Well-Known Member
mmttww said:
Estate Agent didn't tell her that the house needs a license specific to the area if it's going to be rented out. Not sold on the idea that this is 'corruption'.
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Ignorance of the law is no defence.
 
mmttww

mmttww

Well-Known Member
Marty said:
Ignorance of the law is no defence.
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Cool, but it's not corruption is it? Incompetent estate agent, Yeah. Politician that's gonna be called on it because they've crowed for opposition folks to resign in the past or whatever. Fair cop.
 
SkyBlueDom26

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
mmttww said:
Cool, but it's not corruption is it? Incompetent estate agent, Yeah. Politician that's gonna be called on it because they've crowed for opposition folks to resign in the past or whatever. Fair cop.
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Do you ever do anything other than just waffle complete shite on here and post gifs?
 
rob9872

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Amour Waffle GIF by Persona
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
I know it's only £945, but you cannot have the appearance of one rule for them and another for us.

I think Reeves should go; if you're a government minister you have to be on top of this kind of thing, and if you're elected on precisely that promise, even more so.

Starmer has an unerring ability to take the wrong side on every argument.

Don't get me wrong, compared to the billions of corruption that the Tories allowed, the completely bent Boris, and Farage's obvious double dealings on his house and elsewhere, a genuinely clean politics would terrify the right. They're even worse.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
rob9872 said:
I'm probably the wrong one to ask because I'm very unlikely to vote Labour and even less so for Starmer who I don't trust and don't like - sneering sniveling little scrote and still remember how he said the word Coventry that irritated me more than it should, anyway I digress...

What he could and should do, and what all leaders should do is quite simple. There is no great science, most of us want the same things and it's about how they are achieved, so I think we simply need to see some progress. Off the top of my head a few thoughts:

Fund the NHS properly and get more nurses
Bring back some order, recruit more police and dont have them wasting their time on silly laws that don't allow common sense
Low interest rates, low taxes, plenty of jobs
Fill the pot holes on the roads,
Give us a clean, reliable on time train service where we can get a seat without taking out a mortgage
Build more houses and get people off the streets
Deal with drug dealers and get the vermin off our streets for good
Find a way of controlling immigration and despite the boats only being a small percentage, stop those and keep the noise down
Make sure we have options for people on low or disability income where they don't need to rely on foodbanks, but don't give free passes to those who are able to play the system and take take take without contributing to society
Be honest, if you can't deliver it, say why and what you propose to change rather than lying and then achieving nothing

None of that is groundbreaking, I doubt may would disagree with the sentiment of the above (although I'm sure a few will want to pick some holes in it), but the point is, we need to see some progress to a few of those type things because that's (imo) a few off the top of my head things the public want to see.

Note I've not mentioned big finance, international trade, nuclear or defence spend, education or any other big topics that are also important, but no government in my lifetime has actually tried to progress some of the basic needs of the electorate. If they get on top of those, then they can be looking at the big stuff in the background that the average Joe doesn't need to be burdened with.
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What is this reference to Coventry?And why does it not include the word 'City',directly afterwards?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
This strikes me more as an estate agent fuck up than corruption. tbh if the only corruption we had to worry about was not paying £3K or whatever it is for a license rather than hundreds of millions in wasted contracts handed to mates we'd be in a much better positon.

But there's a problem for Starmer in that he has taken a hard line on the likes on Raynor, no doubt in large part because it was a convenient way to get rid of her, so will need to show some consistency.
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How you can compare to Rayner is beyond me. She clearly tried to exploit a system and got found out. She could never have survived.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
mmttww said:
Cool, but it's not corruption is it? Incompetent estate agent, Yeah. Politician that's gonna be called on it because they've crowed for opposition folks to resign in the past or whatever. Fair cop.
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Odd how these Labour politicians have incompetent estate agents and solicitors.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
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Bit of crackpot video but the sentiment shows that Labour is on course to suffer the same fate as the Tories at the next election.

It’s electoral coalition has been a delicate between the blue-collar working class and metropolitan liberals in big cities, Brexit nearly broke it and now Labour is being outflanked by everyone and it’s polling shows that right now, it’s a carcass being picked at by the Greens, Reform, LD an Tory. Where does it begin to turn the tide? To your question earlier in the thread, probably start with ‘stopping the boats’. Welfare reform/spending cuts and being tough on crime is off the table… It’s looking v bad for Labour.

Labour’s decline has been in the reckoning for while. To tell a personal story… Back at uni, I had seminars with a Labour councillor who is now doing something at the Labour HQ (a career politician). She was 100% a ‘champagne socialist’ whose dislike for rich people was much stronger than their desire to help poor people.

For context, she was from Harrogate and called Coventry a ‘shithole’ and in the many times we clashed, her focus was v much of liberal pet projects rather than bread and butter issues of the working class. At this time, I was an enthusiastic Corbynista and she hated him so that was a flashpoint in our seminars.

Debating people like her and seeing the capture of the Labour Party by middle-class Oxbridge grads marked the beginning of my disillusionment with the ‘left’.
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Bit of crackpot video but the sentiment shows that Labour is on course to suffer the same fate as the Tories at the next election.

It’s electoral coalition has been a delicate between the blue-collar working class and metropolitan liberals in big cities, Brexit nearly broke it and now Labour is being outflanked by everyone and it’s polling shows that right now, it’s a carcass being picked at by the Greens, Reform, LD an Tory. Where does it begin to turn the tide? To your question earlier in the thread, probably start with ‘stopping the boats’. Welfare reform/spending cuts and being tough on crime is off the table… It’s looking v bad for Labour.

Labour’s decline has been in the reckoning for while. To tell a personal story… Back at uni, I had seminars with a Labour councillor who is now doing something at the Labour HQ (a career politician). She was 100% a ‘champagne socialist’ whose dislike for rich people was much stronger than their desire to help poor people.

For context, she was from Harrogate and called Coventry a ‘shithole’ and in the many times we clashed, her focus was v much of liberal pet projects rather than bread and butter issues of the working class. At this time, I was an enthusiastic Corbynista and she hated him so that was a flashpoint in our seminars.

Debating people like her and seeing the capture of the Labour Party by middle-class Oxbridge grads marked the beginning of my disillusionment with the ‘left’.
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Oh yes the guy in the video is a bit weird, but it's the first one I found when searching for the quote from Starmer.

I've had no real dealings with the Labour Party (aside from the relative of a personal friend aspiring to be an MP), but obviously a lot more in a trade union context. My experience of doing that personally and looking at things as a whole is that these are the organisations fighting the hardest to improve things for working people, despite all the legal handicaps successive governments have imposed upon them. The party was founded to be the political wing of the union movement. It's so far removed from that now as to be unrecognisable. Ultimately where do unions get their income from? Members' subs. Who are the members? Working people. I haven't spoken with my former union colleagues in a few years now but there was wide disillusionment with Labour even then.

I was also very much pro-Corbyn and pro-Bernie Sanders at that time, and a great 'what if' for me is what if those two had got in at the same time. I think (and I expect many to disagree) that both countries would be much better off than they are now.
 
rob9872

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I was also very much pro-Corbyn and pro-Bernie Sanders at that time, and a great 'what if' for me is what if those two had got in at the same time. I think (and I expect many to disagree) that both countries would be much better off than they are now.
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Dodged a massive bullet not being successful in Corbyn's time, he was dangerous as much as incompetent imo. The only one thing I will give him over other politicians is that he was unwavering in what he believed in and a man of (his) principles, albeit I disagreed with almost everything he stood for.
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
rob9872 said:
Dodged a massive bullet not being successful in Corbyn's time, he was dangerous as much as incompetent imo. The only one thing I will give him over other politicians is that he was unwavering in what he believed in and a man of (his) principles, albeit I disagreed with almost everything he stood for.
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His 2017 manifesto was the best Labour manifesto of my (voting) lifetime in my opinion and his vote share was a fair bit higher than Starmer's. By 2019 however, he had lost the plot mostly over his Brexit position conflicting with that of the party membership overall.

As for Bernie Sanders however, giving all people in the US access to healthcare free at the point of use would have been transformative for them. Instead, they elected a guy who's restricting that access even further and using the office to enrich himself.
 
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