Do you want to discuss boring politics? (27 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Probably and the public are seeing that many of these students are either a) being many dependents with them b) transitioning into low income work and c) overstaying/violating their visa conditions.

Most of the electorate expect students to leave or transition into highly qualified, high paying work after their studies. This isn’t happening.

I expected it for myself and it didn’t happen!

 

---

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The bullet engravings actually all appear to be references to a game and/or to quotes from the Nick Fuentes part of the bro sphere. He came from a family with a deep gun culture and that was in deep Republican territory.

A bit like Luigi Mangione and other Gen Z murderers these cases aren’t as straightforward as they appear.

The guy is living with a transgender partner. He isn’t a Nick Fuentes ‘bro’.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Net student migration is over double that isn’t it?

Student related net migration was down to 130k I think. Big drop after the Tories finally closed dependents loophole, which was being gamed…. Bravermann too busy looking at the boats !

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The guy is living with a transgender partner. He isn’t a Nick Fuentes ‘bro’.

At least wait until he gives his motive is all I’ll say.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Student related net migration was down to 130k I think. Big drop after the Tories finally closed dependents loophole, which was being gamed…. Bravermann too busy looking at the boats !

I had 250k in my mind as the most recent number?

 

[CCFCSteve]

I had 250k in my mind as the most recent number?

Yeah, think that’s gross figure (266k)

• Since 2022, decreasing study-related immigration and increasing study-related emigration resulted in lower long-term net migration of non-EU+ international migrants initially arriving in the UK on a study-related visa; this decreased to 131,000 in YE December 2024 compared with our updated YE December 2023 estimate of 309,000.

 

[SBT]

What is the utility of it?

That it’s the truth?

Again, I’m sure some people would prefer hagiographies only when people die, especially when it’s people they admire. But let’s not pretend that’s what good journalism is.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yeah, think that’s gross figure (266k)

• Since 2022, decreasing study-related immigration and increasing study-related emigration resulted in lower long-term net migration of non-EU+ international migrants initially arriving in the UK on a study-related visa; this decreased to 131,000 in YE December 2024 compared with our updated YE December 2023 estimate of 309,000.

The problem is if you even halve that you still take most of the number people apparently are ok with, which leaves little room for anything else

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

At least wait until he gives his motive is all I’ll say.

Another bullet said: ‘Hey Fascist, catch!’

We’ll both agree that Nick Fuentes presents himself further to the right than Charlie Kirk ever did. So the idea Tyler Robinson was radicalised by the far right just isn’t credible. One bullet had a reference to men who are attracted to transitioning male to female trans people (not a reference I get to be honest) but makes sense given his relationship status. It’s fairly reasonable to describe him as a trans-activist from what we know.

In fact, some corners of the US media is fundamentally dishonest when presenting the motives of shooters. Take the recent church shooting by a transgender person who was labelled ‘far right’ because they had ‘6 million not enough’ (a disgusting reference to the holocaust) on the gun alongside trans flags and slogans on the assault rifle used. This person is far more likely to belong to the post-modernist left than the post-modernist right. Right now, the ‘trans-activist’ and ‘pro-Palestine’ positions hardly point to an individual who can be described as ‘far right’.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The problem is if you even halve that you still take most of the number people apparently are ok with, which leaves little room for anything else

The issue is that there are plenty of universities out there that frankly, offer crap degrees that require v low grades.

The immigration system is being used to prop up the university sector.

In my mind, unis should have apply to use the visas and the Home Office should consider academic and economic outcomes of non-UK students. Specifically, are they leaving or transitioning into high paying jobs after their studies.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The right wing press, i.e. the Independent peddling the idea that Starmer may be replaced as Labour leader…

Why Keir Starmer cannot survive as prime minister without this man

Many people in Labour want Morgan McSweeney sacked as Downing Street chief of staff but there are doubts Keir Starmer would survive as PM without him, writes David Maddox

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The right wing press, i.e. the Independent peddling the idea that Starmer may be replaced as Labour leader…

Why Keir Starmer cannot survive as prime minister without this man

Many people in Labour want Morgan McSweeney sacked as Downing Street chief of staff but there are doubts Keir Starmer would survive as PM without him, writes David Maddox

www.independent.co.uk

The Labour MP on the Kuenssberg show this morning wasn’t exactly leaping to his defence either.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Another bullet said: ‘Hey Fascist, catch!’

We’ll both agree that Nick Fuentes presents himself further to the right than Charlie Kirk ever did. So the idea Tyler Robinson was radicalised by the far right just isn’t credible. One bullet had a reference to men who are attracted to transitioning male to female trans people (not a reference I get to be honest) but makes sense given his relationship status. It’s fairly reasonable to describe him as a trans-activist from what we know.

In fact, some corners of the US media is fundamentally dishonest when presenting the motives of shooters. Take the recent church shooting by a transgender person who was labelled ‘far right’ because they had ‘6 million not enough’ (a disgusting reference to the holocaust) on the gun alongside trans flags and slogans on the assault rifle used. This person is far more likely to belong to the post-modernist left than the post-modernist right. Right now, the ‘trans-activist’ and ‘pro-Palestine’ positions hardly point to an individual who can be described as ‘far right’.

Yeah they do appear to be leftist engravings at face value, but investigators / experts have cautioned that the antifascist slogans and internet meme references might not actually necessarily point to any kind of partisan political ideology per say, which is fair.

He clearly lived online so it could be one of those where he was so immersed in internet meme culture that he just saw this as a way to gain notoriety.

I do think more info needs to come out before we take initial findings as gospel.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

The Labour MP on the Kuenssberg show this morning wasn’t exactly leaping to his defence either.

"You were supposed to protect me"

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

"You were supposed to protect me"

The writing’s on the wall when MPs sent on to defend you can’t be arsed

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Yeah they do appear to be leftist engravings at face value, but investigators / experts have cautioned that the antifascist slogans and internet meme references might not actually necessarily point to any kind of partisan political ideology per say, which is fair.

He clearly lived online so it could be one of those where he was so immersed in internet meme culture that he just saw this as a way to gain notoriety.

I do think more info needs to come out before we take initial findings as gospel.

Axios has confirmed Fox’s reports that the assailant was a ‘radical leftist’.

It’s clear that the guy whose partner was trans, with pretty explicit carvings on the bullets was not ‘far right’.

All you have to do is look at the responses to any JK Rowling ‘gender critical’ tweets to see just how violent trans activists can be.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The writing’s on the wall when MPs sent on to defend you can’t be arsed

@shmmeee please chastise BSB for spreading RW propaganda.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

@shmmeee please chastise BSB for spreading RW propaganda.

He thinks I’m still on Team Jezza when I dropped my support for him 6 years ago and think his ego trip project with Sultana is a counter productive vanity exercise.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Axios has confirmed Fox’s reports that the assailant was a ‘radical leftist’.

It’s clear that the guy whose partner was trans, with pretty explicit carvings on the bullets was not ‘far right’.

All you have to do is look at the responses to any JK Rowling ‘gender critical’ tweets to see just how violent trans activists can be.

Anyone can be murderously violent, it transcends ideology. Again we’re entering the territory of ascribing traits to people based on their politics.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Anyone can be murderously violent, it transcends ideology. Again we’re entering the territory of ascribing traits to people based on their politics.

This is true to a extent.

Yet, we have no issues stating that people who are genuinely ‘far right’ tend to be more violent than ‘centrists dads’ because it’s true. The ANTIFA sorts and trans-activists (emphasis on the activists) are undeniably the violent wing of ‘far left’. In the USA, there’s a disproportionate increase in the number of mass shootings committed by trans people, unfortunately.

There were 38 arrests at yesterday’s rally so why were people not surprised? They associate Tommy Robinson with the ‘far right’ and we associate hooliganism with the ‘far right’.

Touching on something @KenilworthSkyBlue said about motives being blurry… No one ‘deconstructed’ what Jo Cox’s killer meant when the killed her, shouting ‘Britain First’. It was a clear nod to the fascist organisation Britain First. His motivations were not the subject of inquiry, it was v clear from the outset.

He thinks I’m still on Team Jezza when I dropped my support for him 6 years ago and think his ego trip project with Sultana is a counter productive vanity exercise.

I don’t blame Corbyn to be honest because he was kicked out the Labour Party. His seat is as safe as the Bank of England so why not cobble together a new party? His ‘coalition’ of metropolitan middle class voters and socially conservative Muslims is inevitably going to come into conflict, in fact, it already has. Zarah Sultana as a co-leader is hilarious because she’ll lose her seat and is so outspoken, she’ll inevitably turn off many ‘would be’ members/allies. Look at how Adnan Hussain has reacted to her comments on the trans issue.

In a past life, I was a Labour member and enthusiastic Corbyn supporter but was quite socially conservative compared to the average ‘lefty’. All that’s changed in my politics is the economics where it is undeniably centre-right now.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Axios has confirmed Fox’s reports that the assailant was a ‘radical leftist’.

It’s clear that the guy whose partner was trans, with pretty explicit carvings on the bullets was not ‘far right’.

All you have to do is look at the responses to any JK Rowling ‘gender critical’ tweets to see just how violent trans activists can be.

Yeah I know they're following the trans activist line of enquiry as a possible motive but again nothing has really been confirmed as it seems Robinson isn't saying anything and everything in terms of shared information is coming from those around him.

There's obviously reports coming out now that he was in a relationship with the trans individual he was living with so naturally that's going to be a suspected motive given Kirk's stance and rhetoric on the trans community.

But there's a lot of 'might's' and 'may's' being pushed in the media currently. The online and gaming stuff was clearly a significant catalyst to his radicalisation given his digital footprint.

Again, not refuting anything you've said but I'm saying it might not be necessarily has binary as "he was a lefty".

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The issue is that there are plenty of universities out there that frankly, offer crap degrees that require v low grades.

The immigration system is being used to prop up the university sector.

In my mind, unis should have apply to use the visas and the Home Office should consider academic and economic outcomes of non-UK students. Specifically, are they leaving or transitioning into high paying jobs after their studies.

It’s a group that make a hugely financially positive contrbution

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

This is true to a extent.

Yet, we have no issues stating that people who are genuinely ‘far right’ tend to be more violent than ‘centrists dads’ because it’s true. The ANTIFA sorts and trans-activists (emphasis on the activists) are undeniably the violent wing of ‘far left’. In the USA, there’s a disproportionate increase in the number of mass shootings committed by trans people, unfortunately.

There were 38 arrests at yesterday’s rally so why were people not surprised? They associate Tommy Robinson with the ‘far right’ and we associate hooliganism with the ‘far right’.

Touching on something @KenilworthSkyBlue said about motives being blurry… No one ‘deconstructed’ what Jo Cox’s killer meant when the killed her, shouting ‘Britain First’. It was a clear nod to the fascist organisation Britain First. His motivations were not the subject of inquiry, it was v clear from the outset.



I don’t blame Corbyn to be honest because he was kicked out the Labour Party. His seat is as safe as the Bank of England so why not cobble together a new party? His ‘coalition’ of metropolitan middle class voters and socially conservative Muslims is inevitably going to come into conflict, in fact, it already has. Zarah Sultana as a co-leader is hilarious because she’ll lose her seat and is so outspoken, she’ll inevitably turn off many ‘would be’ members/allies. Look at how Adnan Hussain has reacted to her comments on the trans issue.

In a past life, I was a Labour member and enthusiastic Corbyn supporter but was quite socially conservative compared to the average ‘lefty’. All that’s changed in my politics is the economics where it is undeniably centre-right now.

Yeah I've stated before there's clearly a significant bias in the rhetoric used in the media and on socials when a far left radicalist commits a crime compared to someone on the far right which needs addressing, but the point I'm trying to make is it's literally all conjecture in regards to a direct motive at this point.

Said motive is perhaps looking clearer as more information is revealed but the trans partner is claiming they didn't have a clue about why he did this, nor his family or his friends and he's not cooperating at all.

So there's nothing really definitive yet.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It’s a group that make a hugely financially positive contrbution

Well, not the students who then claim asylum or transition into the health and social care visa route. Any migrant on an income less than £35,000k will be economically a net drain on the treasury.

The PhD route is often used by universities to recruit cheap labour abroad and this is also true in the USA.

 

[stupot07]

They’re public figures - why should their opinions and actions be omitted when reporting on their deaths? Or is it a strict hagiographies-only policy if someone dies suddenly?

Haha going Godwins law here:

"Adolf was found dead this morning having taken his own life, he contributed many great things, like the Volkswagen Beatle and the upturn of the German Economy after the Great Depression. RIP"

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This is true to a extent.

Yet, we have no issues stating that people who are genuinely ‘far right’ tend to be more violent than ‘centrists dads’ because it’s true. The ANTIFA sorts and trans-activists (emphasis on the activists) are undeniably the violent wing of ‘far left’. In the USA, there’s a disproportionate increase in the number of mass shootings committed by trans people, unfortunately.

There were 38 arrests at yesterday’s rally so why were people not surprised? They associate Tommy Robinson with the ‘far right’ and we associate hooliganism with the ‘far right’.

Touching on something @KenilworthSkyBlue said about motives being blurry… No one ‘deconstructed’ what Jo Cox’s killer meant when the killed her, shouting ‘Britain First’. It was a clear nod to the fascist organisation Britain First. His motivations were not the subject of inquiry, it was v clear from the outset.



I don’t blame Corbyn to be honest because he was kicked out the Labour Party. His seat is as safe as the Bank of England so why not cobble together a new party? His ‘coalition’ of metropolitan middle class voters and socially conservative Muslims is inevitably going to come into conflict, in fact, it already has. Zarah Sultana as a co-leader is hilarious because she’ll lose her seat and is so outspoken, she’ll inevitably turn off many ‘would be’ members/allies. Look at how Adnan Hussain has reacted to her comments on the trans issue.

In a past life, I was a Labour member and enthusiastic Corbyn supporter but was quite socially conservative compared to the average ‘lefty’. All that’s changed in my politics is the economics where it is undeniably centre-right now.

I do blame Corbyn now as he’s just waging a vendetta against the party when we don’t need more disharmony. It will just damage the causes he’s meant to care about.

I’ve been centre left for most of my adult life in both respects. The out and out ‘hard left’ who I have mixed with through my past life as a union rep didn’t necessarily see eye to eye with me.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Haha going Godwins law here:

"Adolf was found dead this morning, he contributed many positives things, like the Volkswagen Beatle and the upturn of the German Economy after the Great Depression. RIP"

If memory serves the de Valera government in Dublin sent its condolences to the Nazi government upon hearing of Hitler’s demise.

Edit: My memory does serve me.

Why did de Valera offer condolences after Hitler died?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I do blame Corbyn now as he’s just waging a vendetta against the party when we don’t need more disharmony. It will just damage the causes he’s meant to care about.

I’ve been centre left for most of my adult life in both respects. The out and out ‘hard left’ who I have mixed with through my past life as a union rep didn’t necessarily see eye to eye with me.

Can I offer an alternative view?

The ‘old order’ is clearly crumbling and there will definitely be space for a credible left wing party to take Labour’s place. Just as Reform has mopped up the Brexit vote from the Tories.

The traditional working class is abandoning Labour in its droves and this will only become more pronounced as the old ‘tribalism’ is disappearing.

If Labour gets annihilated at the next election, the future of the British left possibly looks like something of a coalition of the Left-Greens as they do in France. It goes without saying that the French electoral system is a lot more volatile than ours.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Can I offer an alternative view?

The ‘old order’ is clearly crumbling and there will definitely be space for a credible left wing party to take Labour’s place. Just as Reform has mopped up the Brexit vote from the Tories.

The traditional working class is abandoning Labour in its droves and this will only become more pronounced as the old ‘tribalism’ is disappearing.

If Labour gets annihilated at the next election, the future of the British left possibly looks like something of a coalition of the Left-Greens as they do in France. It goes without saying that the French electoral system is a lot more volatile than ours.

I would welcome that, but Corbyn is really not the person to lead it

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Look at what was written after the Democrats in Minnesota were killed if you wish to go down that road.

Also just to build on this, what was pushed out by Conservatives, including Kirk, after Nancy Pelosi's husband was attacked.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I would welcome that, but Corbyn is really not the person to lead it

If John McDonnell were to leave the Labour Party, that’d probably be the best candidate to lead a left coalition. He’s said he’ll never leave the Labour Party.

Corbyn has too much baggage, Sultana and Polanski you can’t take seriously at all imo.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Also just to build on this, what was pushed out by Conservatives, including Kirk, after Nancy Pelosi's husband was attacked.

Or indeed after Trump got policemen killed at the Capitol because he couldn’t accept losing an election

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Fair play to Clive Lewis for this, a few people on this thread could take note.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

was he actually living with his transgender partner? i’ve seen reports he was living at home still

 

[Marty]

was he actually living with his transgender partner? i’ve seen reports he was living at home still

He's killed Charlie Kirk as he couldn't handle being gay?