Do you want to discuss boring politics? (93 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Let’s flip the script, if a left leaning council requesting the flying of the pride flag and this request was rejected by an unelected bureaucrat, would you be ok with that?

After all, who gives a shit about flags?

I would take this argument a bit more seriously if this party weren't trying to ape that famous unelected bureaucrat Elon Musk's attack on government workers. We don't elect every government employee FFS

 

---

[skybluetony176]

So nothing to do with marrying a member of said union. Of course not Tony.

So what unfair advantage would the fire service receive from the connection of a senior FBU member’s relationship with an MP? What financial gain did the MP, family members or friends receive?

You do understand that lobbying is not only legal in the UK it is also seen as healthy to our democracy unless those two lines are crossed?

Their personal arrangement is irrelevant. Lobbying laws were clearly not broken.

Like I said. Dodgy lobbying my arse.

 

[chiefdave]

all because Corbyn was like "yeah, not what is actually happening"

 

[PVA]

Fucking flags

They're having a similar argument at Leicestershire County Council.

This is the kind of crap Reform councillors will be focusing on all over the country. They are not serious people.

 

[shmmeee]

Something something Laffer curve.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

View attachment 44158

Something something Laffer curve.

The curve that was literally sketched on tissue

 

[Nick]

Wasn't she suspended by them and touting as an independent? it's like somebody getting sacked and claiming it was their choice.

 

[SkyBluePower]

She wasnt "sacked"- she refused to back down and vote for policies that she didnt believe the Govt was voted in on. A few other rebels caved in and got the Whip restored.

Wasn't she suspended by them and touting as an independent? it's like somebody getting sacked and claiming it was their choice.

 

[fatso]

Fucking flags

They're having a similar argument at Leicestershire County Council.

This is the kind of crap Reform councillors will be focusing on all over the country. They are not serious people.

Well the previous knob heads did such a good job that most lost their seats!

Maybe, just maybe (and time will tell) Reform want to deal with the real problems rather than pointless gesture politics like sticking a fucking rainbow flag up on the council house, wtf is that all about?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

because answering questions ain't your thing?

If a request to put a flag like that up was knocked back, I'd wonder why, given it takes a few mins and is a harmless gesture of support. Defending this dog whistle sh*te from Reform which they're all over because it's easier than, you know, doing something, is a bit weird.

Flying the Union Jack, the flags of the home nations and the county flags standard practice. That’s the simple why.

If business or individuals wish to fly ‘x, y and z’ flags outside, go for it.

Go anywhere in Europe and government buildings will have the EU, national and state flags flying above them.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Imagine saying the state of the local service provision, the public realm, social care and deciding the most important issue is whether or not the council house is flying a flag. Stupid fucking cunts.

They haven’t said that’s the most important thing. They made a request, it was denied so of course they’re going to cry foul over it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Flying the Union Jack, the flags of the home nations and the county flags standard practice. That’s the simple why.

If business or individuals wish to fly ‘x, y and z’ flags outside, go for it.

Go anywhere in Europe and government buildings will have the EU, national and state flags flying above them.

Dude, it just isn't that important.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Here he is attending the cabinet meeting:

https://democracy.warwickshire.gov.uk/documents/g4091/Printed%20minutes%20Thursday%2012-Jun-2025%2013.45%20Cabinet.pdf?T=1

Not a single recorded contribution in the minutes.

I've had a look through his X account too, not a single local issue referred to. Everything is just culture war talking points and dog whistles.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I mean, yes, if they just randomly went and demanded it without using the proper process I'm sure most people would be perfectly OK with it being refused.

I don't, and I'm sure many other are the same, have the first clue what flag Coventry Council is flying today. It really doesn't impact my life in the slightest and unless they suddenly decided to throw up a swastika or something similar I really couldn't give a shit.

What is the ‘proper process?’

I’m not sure a council would convene a session to vote on what flags fly on civic buildings.

Ironically, to you and all the respondents below, the ‘progress flag’ was flown without the correct ‘consent’…

Yet, in the face of this, an unelected CEO of the council refused to listen to the council. That is the issue here rather than the party politics behind it.

Warwickshire County Council flew Pride Flag 'without proper consent' - BBC News

The flag is at the centre of a row between a council's chief executive and Reform UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

I would take this argument a bit more seriously if this party weren't trying to ape that famous unelected bureaucrat Elon Musk's attack on government workers. We don't elect every government employee FFS

Elon Musk was appointed by an elected president. What a stupid comparison.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What is the ‘proper process?’

I’m not sure a council would convene a session to vote on what flags fly on civic buildings.

Ironically, to you and all the respondents below, the ‘progress flag’ was flown without the correct ‘consent’…

Yet, in the face of this, an unelected CEO of the council refused to listen to the council. That is the issue here rather than the party politics behind it.

Warwickshire County Council flew Pride Flag 'without proper consent' - BBC News

The flag is at the centre of a row between a council's chief executive and Reform UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

Elon Musk was appointed by an elected president. What a stupid comparison.

Who ultimately appoints council executives?

 

[fernandopartridge]

What is the ‘proper process?’

I’m not sure a council would convene a session to vote on what flags fly on civic buildings.

Ironically, to you and all the respondents below, the ‘progress flag’ was flown without the correct ‘consent’…

Yet, in the face of this, an unelected CEO of the council refused to listen to the council. That is the issue here rather than the party politics behind it.

Warwickshire County Council flew Pride Flag 'without proper consent' - BBC News

The flag is at the centre of a row between a council's chief executive and Reform UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

Elon Musk was appointed by an elected president. What a stupid comparison.

Ms Fogerty’s response said decisions on which flags should be flown were a matter for her and not for the leader.

She said: “Hitherto the decisions around which flags to fly at Shire Hall have been left to me as CEO. This has been the custom and practice for the duration of my tenure as CEO and I have never received a request or instruction from an elected member or the leader on such a matter.”

Ms Fogerty said the Pride flag had been flown during Pride month for many years and Cllr Howard had agreed to it while he was in office.

It would be up to Cllr Finch to propose a policy on flags as an executive decision if he wished to, she added.

 

[SBT]

Flying the Union Jack, the flags of the home nations and the county flags standard practice. That’s the simple why.

If business or individuals wish to fly ‘x, y and z’ flags outside, go for it.

Go anywhere in Europe and government buildings will have the EU, national and state flags flying above them.

Do you honestly care?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

People said the same about Farage and Reform after Brexit went through.
New group provides a rallying point for those further to the Left. Starmer & Reeve could find themselves facing similar issues to the Welfare Bill where they struggle to get their programmes through.

Brexit were a one issue party. Arguably Reform is as well as they focus heavily on immigration.

The left is very nuanced and has many aspects to it with a huge range of opinions on them all. Hence the left is far more fragmented. And if people want to go further left you've got the Greens.

But as I said the huge range of issues, from economic to immigration to welfare to identity/gender and the environment/energy you're going to struggle to please enough people.

With the right you can dog whistle 'Europe' or 'immigrants' and that's enough to secure a decent number of voters.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I dont have time for Netflix, I work far too many hours

And Income as a measure of wealth is only relevant when compared with financial liabilities. (No of kids for 1 example)

Well kids is a choice. As are a number of liabilities such as if you have a huge mortgage or an expensive car.

 

[chiefdave]

What is the ‘proper process?’

I’m not sure a council would convene a session to vote on what flags fly on civic buildings.

Ironically, to you and all the respondents below, the ‘progress flag’ was flown without the correct ‘consent’…

Yet, in the face of this, an unelected CEO of the council refused to listen to the council. That is the issue here rather than the party politics behind it.

Warwickshire County Council flew Pride Flag 'without proper consent' - BBC News

The flag is at the centre of a row between a council's chief executive and Reform UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

Elon Musk was appointed by an elected president. What a stupid comparison.

Come on, surely even you can see a big difference between someone putting up the 'wrong' version of the pride flag and this kid rocking up and demanding it be taken down.

Or are you suggesting he is an expert on the minutia of pride flags and was merely concerned that the incorrect flag was being flown?

If you feel following the process would be a waste of time that kind of proves the point. The issue here is not that someone refused to comply with a random request made by a person without the authority to do so to the wrong person

Seeing as you believe this to be an incredibly important topic everyone should be on top of can you enlighten us as to what flags Warwick, or Coventry, council's are flying today?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I've read a little about the tax affairs of the mega rich, (I'm skint myself, as the Mrs and kids have bled my dry)
But if you read up on how billionairs trade NFA's and NFT's (non fungable assets/tokens) you'd see they live in a different world to the rest of us.

Also billionairs dont move cash around as you'd expect, they purely transfer ownership of shares, or ownership of commodities such as gold or diamonds, those gold bars and diamonds never leave the deposit boxes of the bank vaults in south Africa, it's just the percentage of ownership that changes.
And as they are off shore, and the asset is never liquidated, there's no tax to pay.

On top of that, the asset can be put into a trust, so it becomes the property of the trust, not the individual, and they can use the value of the trust to secure a personal loan, and that loan is then shown as a debt on their tax return, which is tax deductable!

That's explained very simplistically, but it's basically how the mega rich operate.

All governments know this, so when they say they are going to tax the rich more, they know it's not going to happen, but it's purely a way of satisfying the voters who will then vote for them, because they have no idea of what's really going on and continue to pay their 40% tax quietly like good boys and girls without rioting on the streets.

Look at it this way, I (like a lot of people now) pay 40% tax. Do you honestly think Elon Musk or Richard Branson or Alan Sugar, any other multi millionaire is paying 40% tax?
Of course they arnt, that's because they pay very clever financial experts to look after their wealth. And the more the tax rate increases, the more asset they move abroad.

And while it's true that the top 1% of earners pay 30% of the entire tax yield, they are only actually paying around 10% (for eg) of their income as tax.

Unfortunately the tax "loopholes" for the rich will never change, as it's the rich who fund the political parties and own our politicians.

And you answer is 'that's how they operate so that's it."

There are also benefit fraudsters out there who do it all the time so I guess we should just leave it as there's nothing we can do. And that is a piss in the ocean compared to the mega rich.

The answer is to carry on looking at preventing them doing it, not giving in. Because if you do that they just push further. That's the thing with greed people, whatever they have is never enough.

 

[fatso]

And you answer is 'that's how they operate so that's it."

There are also benefit fraudsters out there who do it all the time so I guess we should just leave it as there's nothing we can do. And that is a piss in the ocean compared to the mega rich.

The answer is to carry on looking at preventing them doing it, not giving in. Because if you do that they just push further. That's the thing with greed people, whatever they have is never enough.

Well if you have an answer, let's hear it?
I've no doubt every avenue has been explored many times before.

As for benefit cheats, this is rife, I know many who play the system, I actually know two people in their 50's who've never worked a day in their lives, there's fuck all wrong with them, yet they still drive brand new cars.
They openly admit there's no point in them finding work.

but as we've seen this week, when a PM even attempts to tackle the issue, his own back benches revolt.

Many if the immigrants comming into the country will be given housing and benefits to help them settle, and unfortunately that will result in large numbers being caught in the benefits trap, where getting a job will mean losing more money than they could earn.
Once an asylum seeker gets their asylum granted, they become the responsibility of the council to house, and once in a house with everything paid for, why would they work?

When you add in the fact that many trades people who do work hard are constantly working for cash in hand and fiddling their books, you can see why the country is financially fucked.

Which is worse?
The rich paying very little tax
Workers fiddling their tax
Or benefit cheats refusing to work

 

[David O'Day]

he doesn't to lead it though

Jeremy Corbyn confirms talks about forming new party with Zarah Sultana

Corbyn says ‘discussions are ongoing’ after MP’s surprise announcement, and is understood to be reluctant to take title of party leader

www.theguardian.com

MP Zarah Sultana says she will ‘co-lead’ new party as she quits Labour for Corbyn group

Coventry South MP, who lost whip last year, surprises some in Corbyn’s Independent Alliance with news of formal plans

www.theguardian.com

so yeah

 

[David O'Day]

She wasnt "sacked"- she refused to back down and vote for policies that she didnt believe the Govt was voted in on. A few other rebels caved in and got the Whip restored.

that's being sacked mate

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Well if you have an answer, let's hear it?
I've no doubt every avenue has been explored many times before.

As for benefit cheats, this is rife, I know many who play the system, I actually know two people in their 50's who've never worked a day in their lives, there's fuck all wrong with them, yet they still drive brand new cars.
They openly admit there's no point in them finding work.

but as we've seen this week, when a PM even attempts to tackle the issue, his own back benches revolt.

Many if the immigrants comming into the country will be given housing and benefits to help them settle, and unfortunately that will result in large numbers being caught in the benefits trap, where getting a job will mean losing more money than they could earn.
Once an asylum seeker gets their asylum granted, they become the responsibility of the council to house, and once in a house with everything paid for, why would they work?

When you add in the fact that many trades people who do work hard are constantly working for cash in hand and fiddling their books, you can see why the country is financially fucked.

Which is worse?
The rich paying very little tax
Workers fiddling their tax
Or benefit cheats refusing to work

All are not great but worst is rich paying little tax. It's the biggest figure by a long long way.

 

[fatso]

All are not great but worst is rich paying little tax. It's the biggest figure by a long long way.

But the rich can move their assets abroad, out of the jurisdiction of the tax man
They do this quite legally, where as the other examples I gave are clearly fraudulent.

 

[chiefdave]

he doesn't to lead it though

Jeremy Corbyn confirms talks about forming new party with Zarah Sultana

Corbyn says ‘discussions are ongoing’ after MP’s surprise announcement, and is understood to be reluctant to take title of party leader

www.theguardian.com

MP Zarah Sultana says she will ‘co-lead’ new party as she quits Labour for Corbyn group

Coventry South MP, who lost whip last year, surprises some in Corbyn’s Independent Alliance with news of formal plans

www.theguardian.com

so yeah

I mean its gone from its not happening, no doubt off Pogrund's unfounded claim that Corbyn was furious and bewildered despite pretty much soft launching the party himself on Peston the previous night, to him having not formally declared himself leader of an entity that does not yet formally exist as far as I can tell to fight an election where he will be 80 years old.

If you want to take that as a big win knock yourself out

 

[PVA]

Not now Jeremy.

 

[David O'Day]

I mean its gone from its not happening, no doubt off Pogrund's unfounded claim that Corbyn was furious and bewildered despite pretty much soft launching the party himself on Peston the previous night, to him having not formally declared himself leader of an entity that does not yet formally exist as far as I can tell to fight an election where he will be 80 years old.

If you want to take that as a big win knock yourself out

no, it's the same it was

there's currently no party and it's not unfounded as other sources have told told journalists he was annoyed she announced it

this isn't about winning? it's about an MP who would of happily retaken the whip if offer seeing a chance to maybe raise her profile and stand a chance in 2029. If you want to take that as a big win then knock yourself out.

 

[StrettoBoy]

As a rule of thumb, whatever new taxes are introduced rarely raise the sums they claim.

Absolutely.

This has been a problem with every Labour government that I can remember, going back to Harold Wilson in the 1960s. They calculate the likely revenue from new or increased taxes on the assumption that there is no change in the behaviour of the affected taxpayers.

What usually happens is that behaviour changes, to minimise the additional tax burden. We are now seeing the rich fleeing the country and taking their tax pounds with them. The take from CGT is forecast to fall in future years as those with eligible assets hold on to them, rather than selling and triggering a tax charge, in the hope that a future government will reduce the tax rate.

 

[David O'Day]

Absolutely.

This has been a problem with every Labour government that I can remember, going back to Harold Wilson in the 1960s. They calculate the likely revenue from new or increased taxes on the assumption that there is no change in the behaviour of the affected taxpayers.

What usually happens is that behaviour changes, to minimise the additional tax burden. We are now seeing the rich fleeing the country and taking their tax pounds with them. The take from CGT is forecast to fall in future years as those with eligible assets hold on to them, rather than selling and triggering a tax charge, in the hope that a future government will reduce the tax rate.

that isn't true

the calculation was done by the OBR and factors in a 20% "capital flight"

 

[StrettoBoy]

that isn't true

the calculation was done by the OBR and factors in a 20% "capital flight"

Figures revised downwards by the OBR in March and other forecasters are even more pessimistic.

 

[David O'Day]

Figures revised downwards by the OBR in March and other forecasters are even more pessimistic.

View attachment 44163

And?

That has absolutely nothing to do what I said.

I said the forecast was the OBR's and they factored in a 20% non dom departure rate (which is likely only at 10%).

You also have to give self declared taxes which are the only effected by this if at all time as people tend to pay early to avoid the increase then hope that the policy is changed back by the next time they have to pay.

You will need to wait a few years before anyone has a real picture of what actually happened but at the moment half as many people have left as the OBR built into the forecast.

 

[chiefdave]

with much of the shortfall in self-assessed income tax

 

[StrettoBoy]

The incomes of the self-employed and small businesses are expected to rise less than previously expected because of the changes - principally National Insurance and minimum wage - made in the Budget. The shortfall is against the previous forecast.