Do you want to discuss boring politics? (21 Viewers)

[The Philosopher]

I get it's not good form to come out and say "I've got money and assets which is because I'm amazing and deserve it so no one's having any of it!"

but that doesn't mean the idea of collecting more direct taxes in a reasoned way to fund public services that people depend on is all that mad.

Here’s a suggestion:

My kids go to private school and have private medical insurance.

This saves the treasury a chunk of money.

Give tax breaks to those that do, be amazed at how many more do, how much treasury revenue is saved and NHS pressure is reduced v how much tax income.

We are governed by fools.

 

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[SBT]

Tax evasion needs to be clamped down on. Legal tax avoidance is another matter. Fix the tax system to create a level playing field and maximise revenue and create investment. That’s the magic formula - what that is exactly is a big question.

Yes and ho!

 

[SBT]

Here’s a suggestion:

My kids go to private school and have private medical insurance.

This saves the treasury a chunk of money.

Give tax breaks to those that do, be amazed at how many more do, how much treasury revenue is saved and NHS pressure is reduced v how much tax income.

We are governed by fools.

It really is a wonder you’ve never been elected.

 

[The Philosopher]

It really is a wonder you’ve never been elected.

I’ve been offered winnable Westminster seats.

The pay cut and not seeing my kids wasn’t attractive.

Sorry.

 

[SBT]

I’ve been offered winnable Westminster seats.

The pay cut and not seeing my kids wasn’t attractive.

Sorry.

Are the winnable seats in the NHS waiting room with us now?

 

[The Philosopher]

Are the winnable seats in the NHS waiting room with us now?

Nonsense reply. In the field.

 

[SBT]

Nonsense reply. In the field.

Hard to believe that your dual platform of “Tax breaks for the wealthy” and “Let Donald Trump crush the UK economy” didn’t resonate with voters during a cost of living crisis.

 

[The Philosopher]

Hard to believe that your dual platform of “Tax breaks for the wealthy” and “Let Donald Trump crush the UK economy” didn’t resonate with voters during a cost of living crisis.

Boring. Predictable.

Anything intelligent or interesting to contribute?

 

[SBT]

Boring. Predictable.

Anything intelligent or interesting to contribute?

My intelligent and interesting contributions are above, people seem to like them!

 

[mmttww]

We are governed by fools.

Your "leave my money alone, I'm doing you a favour!" position is one of the most tired, overused, overly simplistic and most transparently selfish memes in politics.

Kudos to Trump, Farage and the rest for being backed by people like you and convincing relatively comfortable majorities that they're a persecuted minority.

all of which probably makes the people voting for them fools, and the leaders useful idiots to the vested interests backing them who just want to pay less tax etc.

Economic consensus for decades was 'leave business alone' and that's led to the dire state you've said we're in (debt etc.) so making the case for more of that is a LOL.

How's 'small government' going to implement and oversee the tax breaks you want for a small number of the population, btw? Sounds like inefficient big government.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Here’s a suggestion:

My kids go to private school and have private medical insurance.

This saves the treasury a chunk of money.

Give tax breaks to those that do, be amazed at how many more do, how much treasury revenue is saved and NHS pressure is reduced v how much tax income.

We are governed by fools.

You're obviously a clever bloke so apologies if this is a bit thick but if you had a tax break for private health care, where does the gov get that money from to subsidise the costs? Is it taken from another pot?

I get there would be a reduction in NHS demand, but if the answer is the NHS wouldn't need as much money, then surely that's self-defeating. Having 100 people waiting to see 2 doctors isn't much different from 50 waiting for 1. Again, sorry if I'm missing the point.

 

[Grendel]

You're obviously a clever bloke so apologies if this is a bit thick but if you had a tax break for private health care, where does the gov get that money from to subsidise the costs? Is it taken from another pot?

I get there would be a reduction in NHS demand, but if the answer is the NHS wouldn't need as much money, then surely that's self-defeating. Having 100 people waiting to see 2 doctors isn't much different from 50 waiting for 1. Again, sorry if I'm missing the point.

I think Australia offer tax rebates for those who take private health insurance

 

[Sick Boy]

I’ve been offered winnable Westminster seats.

The pay cut and not seeing my kids wasn’t attractive.

Sorry.

Which of the three parties were these for?

 

[MalcSB]

What the fuck are you on about? My “plan” is to raise taxes across a broad base and spend them now on improved social care. Sorry to say you didn’t come into my thinking once.

I wouldn’t have expected me to come into your thinking, you are concerned about a fairly narrow range of people and fuck the rest. Free social care has been promised before, and reneged on. Why should anyone believe another proposal? Especially from someone on a football forum whom I doubt has any influence at all national level.

 

[MalcSB]

You’ve not paid enough tax to cover your retirement I’m afraid. And more to the point as that’s how it actually works I’m currently not paying enough tax to cover your retirement. And the next generation won’t pay enough to cover mine.

Firstly, depends on how long my retirement lasts (current prediction not all that long).
Secondly, I reckon my total current tax spend entirely covers my state pension.

 

[Grendel]

Firstly, depends on how long my retirement lasts. Secondly, I reckon my total current tax spend entirely covers my state pension.

It would for most and many will die before they receive it. Based on average age of death it’s clearly covering the base pension.

We’ve got the lowest pension in Europe. He’s got some deep rooted problem will aging and old people. It’s pretty disturbing in truth

 

[The Philosopher]

You're obviously a clever bloke so apologies if this is a bit thick but if you had a tax break for private health care, where does the gov get that money from to subsidise the costs? Is it taken from another pot?

I get there would be a reduction in NHS demand, but if the answer is the NHS wouldn't need as much money, then surely that's self-defeating. Having 100 people waiting to see 2 doctors isn't much different from 50 waiting for 1. Again, sorry if I'm missing the point.

Each person costs the NHS about £3500 per year. So that money comes out of the tax income pot.

If people pay into an insurance fund that means they don’t get NHS treatment (or the insurance fund refunds the NHS for any cost, eg emergency room treatment) then give them a, say, £1000 per year tax break.

Proportionally, there might be less income but much less expenditure. That’s the theory.

People would be less inclined to use medical services in fear of increased premiums, granted. The morality and reality of the impact of that can be seen elsewhere around the world.

In simple terms, a tax break will encourage more people to go private.

 

[The Philosopher]

Firstly, depends on how long my retirement lasts. Secondly, I reckon my total current tax spend entirely covers my state pension.

Yes,

It’s also notable that over recent years companies and individuals have been required to have private pensions. Companies now have to contribute on top of Employer NI.

It’s another stealth tax for what was once a given.

 

[The Philosopher]

Your "leave my money alone, I'm doing you a favour!" position is one of the most tired, overused, overly simplistic and most transparently selfish memes in politics.

Kudos to Trump, Farage and the rest for being backed by people like you and convincing relatively comfortable majorities that they're a persecuted minority.

all of which probably makes the people voting for them fools, and the leaders useful idiots to the vested interests backing them who just want to pay less tax etc.

Economic consensus for decades was 'leave business alone' and that's led to the dire state you've said we're in (debt etc.) so making the case for more of that is a LOL.

How's 'small government' going to implement and oversee the tax breaks you want for a small number of the population, btw? Sounds like inefficient big government.

We can look across the pond to see how developed economies can be exposed for excess and wasted spending.

Waste less, the need to tax is less.

The best example I can give is Twitter. Musk went in and slashed the overheads and wasted spending. People says it would fall over. He’s now going in and trying to expose waste in government.

People want value for money in their personal lives yet don’t seem to see tax revenue to the government as “real money”. It’s just “government money. Print more. Give us more free stuff”.

 

[MalcSB]

Here’s a suggestion:

My kids go to private school and have private medical insurance.

This saves the treasury a chunk of money.

Give tax breaks to those that do, be amazed at how many more do, how much treasury revenue is saved and NHS pressure is reduced v how much tax income.

We are governed by fools.

Even more foolishly, they re going to charge you even more tax.

 

[mmttww]

Waste less, the need to tax is less.

Musk tanked it's share price by about 80% before it rebounded when he got the DOGE job... which has gone silent after a few weeks of him sending emails and posting made up savings.

I've heard 'red tape' and 'waste' from conservatives for my whole life and it's b*ll*cks. Private sector largesse is off the scale (CEO pay is disgusting). It's just deflection and divide / conquer.

 

[shmmeee]

Firstly, depends on how long my retirement lasts (current prediction not all that long).
Secondly, I reckon my total current tax spend entirely covers my state pension.

Your pension isn’t the bit that costs. It’s health and social care. The vast majority of NHS spend is on the elderly and social care now eats all of council budgets and then some. And as mentioned doubles those costs and passes them to the NHS when below capacity.

It’s really nice to pretend we can just carry on or even (lmao) spend even less with tax cuts (rofl), but we are heading to a situation in the not too distant future where older millennials who didn’t get on the housing ladder start needing retirement living, while the larger boomer cohort is still sticking around needing care. Then the shit really hits the fan.

 

[chiefdave]

It’s also notable that over recent years companies and individuals have been required to have private pensions. Companies now have to contribute on top of Employer NI.

Doesn't that depend what you were getting before that was implemented? Prior to it being made compulsory most companies were giving more in pension contributions, at least in the sector I work in. Now its rare to find anyone offering more than the minimum legally required.

 

[chiefdave]

The best example I can give is Twitter. Musk went in and slashed the overheads and wasted spending. People says it would fall over. He’s now going in and trying to expose waste in government.

If twitter is the best example of this then we definitely don't want to follow that process for running the country

 

[shmmeee]

If twitter is the best example of this then we definitely don't want to follow that process for running the country

I mean if overpopulation is your concern he’s certainly managed that on Twitter.

 

[MalcSB]

Your "leave my money alone, I'm doing you a favour!" position is one of the most tired, overused, overly simplistic and most transparently selfish memes in politics.

Kudos to Trump, Farage and the rest for being backed by people like you and convincing relatively comfortable majorities that they're a persecuted minority.

all of which probably makes the people voting for them fools, and the leaders useful idiots to the vested interests backing them who just want to pay less tax etc.

Economic consensus for decades was 'leave business alone' and that's led to the dire state you've said we're in (debt etc.) so making the case for more of that is a LOL.

How's 'small government' going to implement and oversee the tax breaks you want for a small number of the population, btw? Sounds like inefficient big government.

Your “ I want to take your money so I can do other people a favour”is the most tired, overused, overly simplistic and most transparently envious memes in left wing politics and on this forum.

Doesn't that depend what you were getting before that was implemented? Prior to it being made compulsory most companies were giving more in pension contributions, at least in the sector I work in. Now its rare to find anyone offering more than the minimum legally required.

law of unintended consequences. If only they did robust impact assessments.

 

[MalcSB]

Your pension isn’t the bit that costs. It’s health and social care. The vast majority of NHS spend is on the elderly and social care now eats all of council budgets and then some. And as mentioned doubles those costs and passes them to the NHS when below capacity.

It’s really nice to pretend we can just carry on or even (lmao) spend even less with tax cuts (rofl), but we are heading to a situation in the not too distant future where older millennials who didn’t get on the housing ladder start needing retirement living, while the larger boomer cohort is still sticking around needing care. Then the shit really hits the fan.

Did you not notice that I said I will be paying for my own social care as things stand? Not the state - o.otherwise known as other tax payers.

 

[mmttww]

Your “ I want to take your money so I can do other people a favour” is the most tired, overused, overly simplistic and most transparently envious memes in left wing politics and on this forum..

If you see raising taxes to run schools and hospitals properly as left wing or envious, that's a bit weird. Stuff costs money. Where else is it gonna come from if not taxes? Are lefties the only users of schools and hospitals? Are services like that "doing people a favour" or meeting human rights that governments are duty bound to meet? Use your own words next time as well, you tea leaf!

 

[chiefdave]

Did you not notice that I said I will be paying for my own social care as things stand? Not the state - o.otherwise known as other tax payers.

That might be possible for you but its not possible for everyone.

My Dad has to pay for his own care, he really shouldn't have to as he more than qualifies under NHS continuing healthcare but that funding was withdrawn when the last government made changes and introduced integrated care boards. They came in and made huge cuts and thus declared that my Dad's dementia and health had improved massively. As if that wasn't miraculous enough they did so without anyone from the ICB ever visiting him and despite every healthcare professional who deals with my Dad saying he was deteriorating.

Anyway, as a result of that he now has to pay himself. They decided it was perfectly reasonable to take his pension. Now my parents are of a generation where it was common for the wife to stay at home. This means my Mum gets a minimal state pension and relies on my Dad's pension. When he eventually dies her state pension will increase and she will inherit his works pension which will continue to pay out until she dies.

Now obviously you can't spend that money twice so she can't use it to pay the care bills. So guess who is paying them, and running up debt doing so.

The rough plan is that one day I might be able to sell their house and repay it but of course if at any point my Mum needs care the house will be taken to pay for that.

So there's a good chance when they both die I will not only be left with no inheritance but also a large bill. I would suggest that's not an ideal situation given that I'm not that far off retirement age myself. Sure there's plenty of people looking at reaching retirement in the next 10 - 15 years who just won't be able to afford it and will be absolutely fucked if they end up needing any care.

 

[fernandopartridge]

If Kyiv responds with a steak bake then this could quickly spiral out of control

Cornish separatist group behind it I've heard

 

[MalcSB]

You're obviously a clever bloke so apologies if this is a bit thick but if you had a tax break for private health care, where does the gov get that money from to subsidise the costs? Is it taken from another pot?

I get there would be a reduction in NHS demand, but if the answer is the NHS wouldn't need as much money, then surely that's self-defeating. Having 100 people waiting to see 2 doctors isn't much different from 50 waiting for 1. Again, sorry if I'm missing the point.

The mistake is to assume that the government / NHS is actually funding the two doctors you referred to.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Why do people who don’t live in London get so wound up by Sadiq Khan?

Don't you remember all the posts criticising Boris Johnson's every action as London mayor?

 

[shmmeee]

Did you not notice that I said I will be paying for my own social care as things stand? Not the state - o.otherwise known as other tax payers.

Ans you’re lucky that you can. But you shouldn’t have to and neither should anyone else (within reason) for the same reason we have the NHS: it’s mostly a lottery as to who needs what that everyone has to go through so best to nationalise the risk.

 

[MalcSB]

That might be possible for you but its not possible for everyone.

My Dad has to pay for his own care, he really shouldn't have to as he more than qualifies under NHS continuing healthcare but that funding was withdrawn when the last government made changes and introduced integrated care boards. They came in and made huge cuts and thus declared that my Dad's dementia and health had improved massively. As if that wasn't miraculous enough they did so without anyone from the ICB ever visiting him and despite every healthcare professional who deals with my Dad saying he was deteriorating.

Anyway, as a result of that he now has to pay himself. They decided it was perfectly reasonable to take his pension. Now my parents are of a generation where it was common for the wife to stay at home. This means my Mum gets a minimal state pension and relies on my Dad's pension. When he eventually dies her state pension will increase and she will inherit his works pension which will continue to pay out until she dies.

Now obviously you can't spend that money twice so she can't use it to pay the care bills. So guess who is paying them, and running up debt doing so.

The rough plan is that one day I might be able to sell their house and repay it but of course if at any point my Mum needs care the house will be taken to pay for that.

So there's a good chance when they both die I will not only be left with no inheritance but also a large bill. I would suggest that's not an ideal situation given that I'm not that far off retirement age myself. Sure there's plenty of people looking at reaching retirement in the next 10 - 15 years who just won't be able to afford it and will be absolutely fucked if they end up needing any care.

Your use of the term possible in relation to my position is interesting, For me, it won’t be a matter of choice just because it is something which is possible. It will be an imposition because they are the regulations.I can see my wife being in a very similar position to your mum My state pension will have gone, my occupational pension will be halved. Half the value of the house will have gone and she will be restricted with what she can do with the balance.

I genuinely do wonder why I bothered with a career - intended to enable a comfortable relatively worry free retirement.

Those reaching retirement in 10-15 years needing care but with insufficient funds will have it paid for as things stand. Isn’t that less to worry about?

 

[MalcSB]

Ans you’re lucky that you can. But you shouldn’t have to and neither should anyone else (within reason) for the same reason we have the NHS: it’s mostly a lottery as to who needs what that everyone has to go through so best to nationalise the risk.

I don’t disagree with the principle. Been promised to no avail several times. Application of Continuing Health Care is a disgrace. It’s not that I’m lucky that I can - there is no option about it. The state is lucky that I can. Hopefully it won’t be for too long.