Do you want to discuss boring politics? (13 Viewers)

[JAM See]

@JAM See You're clearly very passionate about this. what is your opinion on officially spoiling your vote?

I did ask you earlier in this thread (which prompted brief debate...see below) but you may have been on your hols....

Do you want to discuss boring politics?

Grendel: 'you're so binary, you just think Labour is good, everyone else is bad' Also Grendel: 'haha look at you, you've voted for some different parties' You admitted at an age when most are at their most politically active you needed parent guidance. I was chairman of my course at that age...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

Thanks for tracking back @jimmyhillsfanclub

I was en route to NYC for a lash for Paddy's day on the 14th March so didn't catch up on the chat for a bit.

I'm very much in favour of compulsory voting, if that includes "None of the above" or going nuclear and spoiling your ballot paper, then that's fine, at least you are honouring the men and women who fought for your right to spoil the ballot.

You're right, I do passionately believe in the franchise that our forebears fought for.

It breaks my heart that some of the intelligent, erudite posters on here choose to turn their back on the only method we, the proletariat, have of effecting change.

Let's be honest, revolution is not going to happen. Voting is our only voice.

Yet some choose not to participate. Baffles me.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yawn.

("I'm too lazy to vote, but find time for the socials").

Quote Reply

You can postal vote these days

 

[fernandopartridge]

Thanks for tracking back @jimmyhillsfanclub

I was en route to NYC for a lash for Paddy's day on the 14th March so didn't catch up on the chat for a bit.

I'm very much in favour of compulsory voting, if that includes "None of the above" or going nuclear and spoiling your ballot paper, then that's fine, at least you are honouring the men and women who fought for your right to spoil the ballot.

You're right, I do passionately believe in the franchise that our forebears fought for.

It breaks my heart that some of the intelligent, erudite posters on here choose to turn their back on the only method we, the proletariat, have of effecting change.

Let's be honest, revolution is not going to happen. Voting is our only voice.

Yet some choose not to participate. Baffles me.

Perhaps you're misunderstanding what I meant by not voting

 

[JAM See]

Perhaps you're misunderstanding what I meant by not voting

Nope.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Nope.

Not putting an X in the box on the ballot paper doesn't necessarily mean one doesn't attend a polling station or post a ballot, does it?

I think your romanticism for the extent to which voting affects change is nice but surely must collide with reality at some point. It has been completely exploited.

 

[JAM See]

Not putting an X in the box on the ballot paper doesn't necessarily mean one doesn't attend a polling station or post a ballot, does it?

I think your romanticism for the extent to which voting affects change is nice but surely must collide with reality at some point. It has been completely exploited.

Yawn.

"Look at me, I'm a cool nihilist"

Boring, and negative.

Moan moan moan.

 

[Ian1779]

Yawn.

"Look at me, I'm a cool nihilist"

Boring, and negative.

Moan moan moan.

So you’re gonna put a tick in the box next to Starmer’s approved candidates? Seeing as he’s abandoned the guise of a broad church unless you are a right wing xenophobe.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yawn.

"Look at me, I'm a cool nihilist"

Boring, and negative.

Moan moan moan.

Cool, I'll go and vote for one of the candidates now you've convinced me

 

[skybluetony176]

My faith in the elderly has been restored

 

[SIR ERNIE]

My faith in the elderly has been restored

Barking mad old duffers.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So you’re gonna put a tick in the box next to Starmer’s approved candidates? Seeing as he’s abandoned the guise of a broad church unless you are a right wing xenophobe.

In a speech today he's on about the small boats and conflating them with the 100k asylum backlog. Rattling on about hotel accommodation.

 

[JAM See]

My faith in the elderly has been restored

I hope I'm that politically involved in my dotage.

Unlike some on here who can't even be bothered to exercise their franchise, because voting is bad apparently.

 

[SkyblueCookie]

I hope I'm that politically involved in my dotage.

Unlike some on here who can't even be bothered to exercise their franchise, because voting is bad apparently.

Do you believe the politicians elected, are the ones that are actually in power?

 

[JAM See]

Do you believe the politicians elected, are the ones that are actually in power?

Yes I do.

From Churchill, through Atlee, Wilson, Heath, Thatcher, Blair and the awful last 14 years, the elected governments, for better or worse are the people setting the agenda.

You may not agree with the decisions they make, but they are ultimately responsible for the success or failure of the policies they implemented.

To believe otherwise is proper tinfoil hat territory.

 

[SkyblueCookie]

Yes I do.

From Churchill, through Atlee, Wilson, Heath, Thatcher, Blair and the awful last 14 years, the elected governments, for better or worse are the people setting the agenda.

You may not agree with the decisions they make, but they are ultimately responsible for the success or failure of the policies they implemented.

To believe otherwise is proper tin hat territory.

So firstly on power, you don't find companies with GDPs larger than most countries directly investing in, on one side mainstream political campaigns and lobbying, and the other side funding political activist groups weird? This doesn't raise any eyebrows to you? Every major Western leader across five eyes coming out with the slogan "build back better" during covid didn't look suspicious to you? The political parties in this world can't get complete alignment on party level matters yet every major party comes out completely aligned and spouting the same slogan, and that is just normal?

Back to one of the earlier points, the 2019 general election had a 67.3% turnout. Things have only got exponentially worse since then across the board in all democracies under all varieties of usual right/left parties. Do you not think the better approach would be to understand why people may be becoming jaded, rather than brow beating them about their justified observations the leadership in all forms is nose diving our civilization? I am expecting even less this time around personally.

Lastly, just a personal observation, what I don't understand from older heads like you, is you have more than likely lived through the winter of discontent, which was labour, we saw labours reaction to the 2008 crash and the wars in the middle east. We've seen the conservatives make a whole host of catastrophic decisions flanking these periods of power, and we've seen the lib dems do meekly, very little. You have witnessed with your own eyes how "changing the team" doesn't actually course correct anything. You've seen leader after leader promise and lie and promise and lie, and yet you still wave your little flag and viscerally attack anyone who looks sideways at this whole mess, when you should have learned more lessons than anyone else. It strikes as nothing more than tribalism, ironically the same as supporting a football team.

I'm not here to lecture or convince you of anything. I was just curious of your perspective. Thank you for your reply.

 

[SBT]

Kind of surprised that Just Stop Oil would assign the one job that required a modicum of physical strength to a couple of elderly guys….they didn’t even manage to break the glass!

 

[Ian1779]

In a speech today he's on about the small boats and conflating them with the 100k asylum backlog. Rattling on about hotel accommodation.

I’m quite certain he’d continue with the Rwanda policy but simply argue he could be either more efficient or effective implementing it.

 

[wingy]

Kind of surprised that Just Stop Oil would assign the one job that required a modicum of physical strength to a couple of elderly guys….they didn’t even manage to break the glass!

Blame the tool's!

 

[shmmeee]

I’m quite certain he’d continue with the Rwanda policy but simply argue he could be either more efficient or effective implementing it.

I hear as soon as he gets into number 10 he’s going to remove his mask to reveal mecha thatcher.

 

[clint van damme]

Kind of surprised that Just Stop Oil would assign the one job that required a modicum of physical strength to a couple of elderly guys….they didn’t even manage to break the glass!

Ageist!

 

[skybluetony176]

Do you believe the politicians elected, are the ones that are actually in power?

Depends what you mean by in power. Are they the ones that have the power to change laws and implement policy then yes. The real question is who’s driving the agenda and shaping the narrative. We know Truss’ budget that crashed the economy for instance was the idea of several Tufton St think tanks but most notably the IEA. Truss was cheerleaded into power by a right wing press to implement a Tufton St budget that heavily favoured an elite minority, no doubt who fund “think” tanks like the IEA. The biggest problem in politics is that there’s too many useful idiots easily convinced by secretively funded think tanks and cheerleaded by a right wing press into positions of power and responsibility.

The electorate (myself included) has been asleep at the wheel for too long. I think that tide is turning and society is starting to do things like not have enough of experts. Time will tell.

 

[duffer]

Thanks for tracking back @jimmyhillsfanclub

I was en route to NYC for a lash for Paddy's day on the 14th March so didn't catch up on the chat for a bit.

I'm very much in favour of compulsory voting, if that includes "None of the above" or going nuclear and spoiling your ballot paper, then that's fine, at least you are honouring the men and women who fought for your right to spoil the ballot.

You're right, I do passionately believe in the franchise that our forebears fought for.

It breaks my heart that some of the intelligent, erudite posters on here choose to turn their back on the only method we, the proletariat, have of effecting change.

Let's be honest, revolution is not going to happen. Voting is our only voice.

Yet some choose not to participate. Baffles me.

And politely, I disagree.

It's not for the state to demand my participation in an election.

My choosing not to vote, should I choose that path, hurts no one. Why should anyone be compelled to vote by law?

 

[duffer]

Kind of surprised that Just Stop Oil would assign the one job that required a modicum of physical strength to a couple of elderly guys….they didn’t even manage to break the glass!

I think it's entirely possible that they didn't actually want to damage the Magna Carta, but just draw attention to their cause. I guess they've done that.

I'm not sure that attacking cultural or artistic touchstones brings any great deal of support for any cause, mind.

 

[SBT]

I think it's entirely possible that they didn't actually want to damage the Magna Carta, but just draw attention to their cause. I guess they've done that.

I'm not sure that attacking cultural or artistic touchstones brings any great deal of support for any cause, mind.

Oh of course they didn’t, none of these protests ever do, and they’re pretty effective at getting publicity. I just think if you’re not strong enough to actually break the protective glass, just do the tomato soup thing again!

 

[duffer]

Oh of course they didn’t, none of these protests ever do, and they’re pretty effective at getting publicity. I just think if you’re not strong enough to actually break the protective glass, just do the tomato soup thing again!

I think the problem with soup is you'd have to clear it all off again to glue yourself to the glass.

 

[JAM See]

And politely, I disagree.

It's not for the state to demand my participation in an election.

My choosing not to vote, should I choose that path, hurts no one. Why should anyone be compelled to vote by law?

I admire your politeness @duffer.

But deep down I know you know you're wrong.

The franchise was hard fought for. It MUST be protected.

Compulsory voting is coming.

 

[Grendel]

I admire your politeness @duffer.

But deep down I know you know you're wrong.

The franchise was hard fought for. It MUST be protected.

Compulsory voting is coming.

It isn’t coming and why should it? I am not voting and I see that as a statement, there is not a No Suitable Candidate so why should I go and spoil my ballot paper - or, as I have done before - vote for the most stupid non entity I can find on there.

I have no interest - there is no Conservative Party anymore - Labour are a zombie government in waiting and anyone voting for Ed Davy needs sectioning

 

[SkyblueCookie]

I admire your politeness @duffer.

But deep down I know you know you're wrong.

The franchise was hard fought for. It MUST be protected.

Compulsory voting is coming.

"We must protect democracy via authoritarianism!" Interesting perspective

 

[wingy]

#Fascists!

 

[Grendel]

I suppose the only amusing bit about Labour recruiting far right MPs is its upset the political version of @covcity4life

Natalie Elphicke is a hard-right Tory. Her defection sums up Labour’s contempt for progressive voters | Labour | The Guardian

It was hailed as a triumph: it is anything but. It reveals a party that’s lost its moral compass

amp.theguardian.com

 

[JAM See]

"We must protect democracy via authoritarianism!" Interesting perspective

"We must protect the children via taxation and the welfare state"

What's your point? No laws are the best laws?

We, the proletariat, are being excisied, and you in the name of freedom are participating in the great robbery.

Don't vote, feel superior.

Yes, compulsory voting is the right thing.

Crack on with your soundbites whilst the world goes to shit around you.

 

[duffer]

I admire your politeness @duffer.

But deep down I know you know you're wrong.

The franchise was hard fought for. It MUST be protected.

Compulsory voting is coming.

Whether it was fought for or not is irrelevant.

Again, what business do you or anyone else have to *demand* that everyone votes?

It's sufficient that we have the right to vote, that's what was fought for, not the compulsion to do so.

We have lots of other rights that were hard won too.

Take the right to protest peacefully, for example. That was hard fought too, and is more genuinely at risk perhaps.

What if I demanded your attendance on a bi-annual basis at a protest march of your choosing as a mark of respect to those who fought for it?

Or gay marriage. That right took literally centuries to come into place. Are you obliged to do that too, out of respect for the thousands of gay men and women who were persecuted over the years?

It's a fallacy that your right to vote is in any way diminished by another's choice not to do so. Or that not voting is an act of disrespect.

What you're proposing is authoritarianism; the state's unnecessary intervention in the freedom of action of an individual to act according to his own choice, when that choice obviously in no way harms himself or others.

Luckily, I see no evidence that compulsory voting is coming - has anything been proposed by any UK political party that backs your assertion in this regard?

I'm afraid you're making the mistake that deep down everyone believes what you believe. Sorry, but you're wrong.

 

[Grendel]

Very few countries outside South America take this view so I do not really see why its inevitable

Countries with Mandatory Voting 2024

 

[clint van damme]

Just listening to the rest is politics, Campbell in favour of compulsory voting and assisted dying, haha!

You want to end it all, crack on its your life mate, but you will put a fucking cross in a box on your way out! What a c**t.

 

[fernandopartridge]