Do you want to discuss boring politics? (22 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

We've discussed this before. Growth is, by its very nature, unsustainable and a fools errand.. All the time needing ever higher populations, land and resources that are finite being used faster and faster. Just a recipe for war over territory and resources until it implodes spectacularly.

It's not that there isn't enough money, it's that those with it all refuse to let anyone else have any. If we have growth it still all just goes to those that have loads and the poor are still in need. Look at big cities that have massive growth in populations and economy. A handful live in fabulous luxury due to it but far more suffer abject poverty and social problems. So what's the suggestion - more growth - which just entrenches the problems! What's that adage about doing the same thing and expecting different results?

Where economic policy needs to focus is distribution, not growth. I'm not naive enough to think that it'd appeal to voters - I know it wouldn't - but is more likely to get results.

Good luck telling people their living standards are going to fall. Growth is not at all unsustainable by its nature. That’s a completely ahistorical take. You also don’t need more people for growth, because it’s per capita that matters.

Overall though, I don’t really want to live in a country preserved in aspic for older generations because we refuse to build anything. I like innovation. I like new stuff. It leads to better lives than the old stuff.

 

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[SBT]

Doesn’t matter what we do for growth at this point. We just desperately need it.

Alright, Kwasi.

 

[shmmeee]

Alright, Kwasi.

Point is the problem with the country is constant talking shops and fuck all ever happening. Like house building. Like infrastructure. Like climate change. I’m done listening to constant hypotheticals about how we shouldn’t do anything. Move fast and break things.

Kwarteng confused growth with giving his mates a tax break of course.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Point is the problem with the country is constant talking shops and fuck all ever happening. Like house building. Like infrastructure. Like climate change. I’m done listening to constant hypotheticals about how we shouldn’t do anything. Move fast and break things.

Kwarteng confused growth with giving his mates a tax break of course.

I was going to say something similar. We’ve turned into a country of talkers/delayers/moaners not do’ers, someones always got an issue with everything so fuck all gets done. Usually people looking for the ideological perfect rather than just ‘the better’ whether that’s to do with energy, transport, house building, infrastructure etc etc….endless hurdles. Chuck an ineffective government in the mix and we are where we are

 

[Sick Boy]

I was going to say something similar. We’ve turned into a country of talkers/delayers/moaners not do’ers, someones always got an issue with everything so fuck all gets done. Usually people looking for the ideological perfect rather than just ‘the better’ whether that’s to do with energy, transport, house building, infrastructure etc etc….endless hurdles. Chuck an ineffective government in the mix and we are where we are

Aka Italy.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Aka Italy.

They had a much more prolific shagger than even Boris Johnson to be fair

 

[shmmeee]

Aka Italy.

At least tourists want to pay to see your old shit

 

[wingy]

Who's going to get own pension scheme upped then?
Sounds like there'll be little provision for state side of things, should be enough for a few tax cuts

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Good luck telling people their living standards are going to fall. Growth is not at all unsustainable by its nature. That’s a completely ahistorical take. You also don’t need more people for growth, because it’s per capita that matters.

Overall though, I don’t really want to live in a country preserved in aspic for older generations because we refuse to build anything. I like innovation. I like new stuff. It leads to better lives than the old stuff.

It's not about telling them their living standards are about to fall, it's about highlighting that a select few are seeing huge increases to their living standards whilst the vast majority are not.

I don't want a country preserved in aspic either. There's a load of stuff I want to change to make living conditions better. I get pissed off with listed buildings and their stupid list of things people can't do in order to preserve them. Often those buildings at the time were at the forefront of innovation and new technology. Those owners nowadays they'd have solar panels, super efficient windows and lighting, top grade internet etc. fitted as a way of showing of their wealth and showing off.

I know we need lots and lots of houses. I just also know we can't just build them anywhere without huge potential problems with drainage etc. I also value the need for green and blue space within housing for both physical and mental health. I'd happily see brownfield built on and convert numerous old industrial areas and retail/ business parks to residential.

But this has got away from the original point about pre-crash growth forecasts and post. Pre-crash growth was build on a bed of sand. Unrealistic credit such as sub-prime mortgages and the financial instruments based on them, allowed by lax regulation of the finance industry creating what were in effect ponzi schemes.

 

[shmmeee]

It's not about telling them their living standards are about to fall, it's about highlighting that a select few are seeing huge increases to their living standards whilst the vast majority are not.

I don't want a country preserved in aspic either. There's a load of stuff I want to change to make living conditions better. I get pissed off with listed buildings and their stupid list of things people can't do in order to preserve them. Often those buildings at the time were at the forefront of innovation and new technology. Those owners nowadays they'd have solar panels, super efficient windows and lighting, top grade internet etc. fitted as a way of showing of their wealth and showing off.

I know we need lots and lots of houses. I just also know we can't just build them anywhere without huge potential problems with drainage etc. I also value the need for green and blue space within housing for both physical and mental health. I'd happily see brownfield built on and convert numerous old industrial areas and retail/ business parks to residential.

But this has got away from the original point about pre-crash growth forecasts and post. Pre-crash growth was build on a bed of sand. Unrealistic credit such as sub-prime mortgages and the financial instruments based on them, allowed by lax regulation of the finance industry creating what were in effect ponzi schemes.

Just because we’ve had shit short termist growth policies in the past doesn’t mean we have to again. As I said climate change, house building, making the most of the Oxford Cambridge arc, these aren’t aimed at making a few people shorter orang-oetan term gains for long term pain.

Most of our “stuff” was built before 1970. There’s so much low hanging fruit.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Notting Hill residents’ capital gains exceed people of ‘three cities combined’

Study shows people in London district made more in 2015-19 than combined populations of Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle

www.theguardian.com

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[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Notting Hill residents’ capital gains exceed people of ‘three cities combined’

Study shows people in London district made more in 2015-19 than combined populations of Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle

www.theguardian.com

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Levelling up going well......

...and the new torys, Reeves & Starmer have no plans to increase CGT. Cunts the lot of 'em.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I remember when Notting Hill was a shit hole!

 

[shmmeee]

Dont understand CGT blanket getting a discount. Why do we want to hand a tax break to someone investing in Tesla or whatever? Surely just tax it like any other income and offer breaks for investment into things we want to encourage? What’s the reason for it? Just standard rich twats writing the tax code or something more justifiable?

 

[PVA]

 

[wingy]

Oh just remembered USA $80k in support cheques, Britain £16K , seems like we've been short-changed?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Dont understand CGT blanket getting a discount. Why do we want to hand a tax break to someone investing in Tesla or whatever? Surely just tax it like any other income and offer breaks for investment into things we want to encourage? What’s the reason for it? Just standard rich twats writing the tax code or something more justifiable?

People paying income tax invest something significant which is time. People playing the stock market or property developing do not necessarily. It's a completely unfair system that taxes income from salary higher.

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[wingy]

The propanda machine keeps turning, as if by clockwork!

Government finances show big surplus in January - BBC News.
Lovely to go along with the gas, car insurance scam!

Should have just knocked a couple of points off the interest payments!

 

[wingy]

HSBC profits soar due to high interest rates - BBC News

Europe's biggest bank, HSBC, has reported a jump of almost 80% in its annual profits in 2023.

www.bbc.co.uk

Inflation is a scam.

 

[wingy]

Pioneering European ERS-2 satellite burns up over Pacific

The veteran ERS-2 Earth observation spacecraft dives to destruction 2,000km west of California.

www.bbc.co.uk

Bloody Europeans, only 15-30 % of its lifespan!

Change of emphasis?

 

[skybluetony176]

The propanda machine keeps turning, as if by clockwork!

Government finances show big surplus in January - BBC News.
Lovely to go along with the gas, car insurance scam!

Should have just knocked a couple of points off the interest payments!

And they’re going to use it to give tax cuts that will disproportionately benefit the wealthiest. It’s been pointed out this morning that there’s a £12B black hole in the NHS maintenance budget meaning hospitals are in an awful state of repair, let’s spend it on the NHS instead. It will still leave £4.6B to fix schools too.

 

[shmmeee]

And they’re going to use it to give tax cuts that will disproportionately benefit the wealthiest. It’s been pointed out this morning that there’s a £12B black hole in the NHS maintenance budget meaning hospitals are in an awful state of repair, let’s spend it on the NHS instead. It will still leave £4.6B to fix schools too.

Also you only build a school once (RAAC aside lol), tax cuts you pay for every single year in perpetuity.

 

[skybluetony176]

Got a feeling this Kemi Badenoch/post office argument has a few twists and turns yet. The ex PO chief seems to be playing a blinder, put some info out, let Kemi respond and then put some more info out that reinforces his position and unties what she’s said. The irony is she had a free pass on this, she wasn’t an MP for the most part of the scandal and has only been the minister responsible for it of late. None of the things the ex PO chief has said happened on her shift yet she seems to be taking it personally and attempting to shift the blame.

Starmer clearly knows more too given his line of attack at PMQ’s and Sunak clearly knows it too given his response. I don’t understand why Kemi has put herself and Sunak in this position when surely the easiest way to shut down the ex PO chair would have to been open and honest about what previous ministers and PM’s (including the last labour government) did, they’ve already demonstrated that their administration is now treating seriously (thanks to a dramatisation of the scandal but better late than never) but they seem intent on undoing that goodwill by reverting to the type that got them here in the first place.

Maybe it’s a play by Kemi to undermine Sunak, who knows. It’s not good optics for sure.

 

[CCFCSteve]

And they’re going to use it to give tax cuts that will disproportionately benefit the wealthiest. It’s been pointed out this morning that there’s a £12B black hole in the NHS maintenance budget meaning hospitals are in an awful state of repair, let’s spend it on the NHS instead. It will still leave £4.6B to fix schools too.

January is always a surplus month and from what I’ve read the figure generated, whilst substantially more than last year, is less than forecast so it isn’t additional spare cash (no need for any comments FP !).

Agree though that any available cash is far better invested in sorting out some public service issues (infrastructure/capital spend) than a relatively small tax cut. Only tax I’d be tempted to change is move personal allowance to 15k+ to help the lowest paid

 

[wingy]

January is always a surplus month and from what I’ve read the figure generated, whilst substantially more than last year, is less than forecast so it isn’t additional spare cash (no need for any comments FP !).

Agree though that any available cash is far better invested in sorting out some public service issues (infrastructure/capital spend) than a relatively small tax cut. Only tax I’d be tempted to change is move personal allowance to 15k+ to help the lowest paid

Still got 3 year's of static on that front isn't it, take a few out of benifits
as well?

 

[CCFCSteve]

Has there been some kind of job swap with the Guardian and Times editors ?!

 

[shmmeee]

Can I once again highlight how insane it is that we run the countries finances like this?

“Oh our guesses were off so we can permanently change revenue/expenditure” until the guesses are off the other way. It’s just all a bit silly isn’t it?

 

[wingy]

Can I once again highlight how insane it is that we run the countries finances like this?

“Oh our guesses were off so we can permanently change revenue/expenditure” until the guesses are off the other way. It’s just all a bit silly isn’t it?

Not when there is an election to win, that won't materialise bar taking us into a major conflict?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Can I once again highlight how insane it is that we run the countries finances like this?

“Oh our guesses were off so we can permanently change revenue/expenditure” until the guesses are off the other way. It’s just all a bit silly isn’t it?

Yes but it indirectly exposes the utter myth of taxpayer money. How does the government spend xbn every month without having secured the tax income or 'borrowing' at the point of spending?

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[wingy]

Got a question?
Isn't it about time the level of Degree repayment gets lifted IE the ceiling at which that they are required to pay the full amount, that has been raised and sold on by the government?

 

[wingy]

Getting lively in the debating chamber!

 

[skybluetony176]

Getting lively in the debating chamber!

 

[duffer]

Anyone who watched the House of Commons in action tonight, would be utterly mystified.

A critical debate on a vital foreign policy issue (calling for a ceasefire in Gaza) and all they really care about is scoring points off each other.

Labour trying to dodge voting on the SNP amendment to avoid showing the splits in their party, and the Tories and SNP doing their best to force them into it for solely that reason (and actually walking out of the HOC in a huff in some cases).

All about political point scoring. In the meantime, Gaza burns.

A pox on the feckin lot of 'em, politics in this country is not fit for purpose.

 

[stupot07]

Anyone who watched the House of Commons in action tonight, would be utterly mystified.

A critical debate on a vital foreign policy issue (calling for a ceasefire in Gaza) and all they really care about is scoring points off each other.

Labour trying to dodge voting on the SNP amendment to avoid showing the splits in their party, and the Tories and SNP doing their best to force them into it for solely that reason (and actually walking out of the HOC in a huff in some cases).

All about political point scoring. In the meantime, Gaza burns.

A pox on the feckin lot of 'em, politics in this country is not fit for purpose.

It just shows the SNP only tabled it to embarrass and cause splits in Labour and they give no shits about Gaza. Otherwise they'd have been pissed off but carried on with the amendment. And the labour amendment is actually better as it places conditions, including handover of hostages in it, and the end goal of a two state solution.

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[BodicoteSkyBlue]

Getting lively in the debating chamber!

Was listening to some of it whilst stuck on the M25 earlier. Full on ranting & yelling at each other. Calls itself the Mother of Parliaments? What an embarrassment.