Do you want to discuss boring politics? (13 Viewers)

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
There’s plenty of headlines like this
None of them seem to mention that leaving the EU IEM has handed them the ability to do this.

Give it a rest Tony. We all know you think everything is brexits fault. It’s a minor part in a far bigger problem.



Shmmeee is right, we should never be reliant on countries like Russia. For example on energy, there’s been a naivety in those that have argued against various alternative short term energy alternatives, in particular nuclear. We all want to move to clean, renewable energy but it can’t happen overnight and in the meantime it’s picking the least worst option(s) to be as self sufficient as possible

Tried to attach FT article but won’t let me. Worth googling. A couple of extracts

‘But storage filling has not happened at the pace traders would have liked in 2021. Russia has been sending less gas to Europe, for reasons fiercely debated in the industry. These range from Russia’s need to refill its own storage to suspicions that it is trying to pressure European governments, including Germany, to approve the start-up of the highly controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.
Europe has also been phasing out coal plants in recent years, limiting the opportunity to switch fuels when prices rise. Record carbon prices have also made fuel swaps less attractive because coal emits more carbon dioxide when burnt. The UK and parts of continental Europe are more reliant on wind turbines for electricity generation, but remarkably still weather in recent weeks has slashed wind’s contribution to the grid. That has largely been backfilled by natural gas, boosting demand for the fuel.’
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Give it a rest Tony. We all know you think everything is brexits fault. It’s a minor part in a far bigger problem.



Shmmeee is right, we should never be reliant on countries like Russia. For example on energy, there’s been a naivety in those that have argued against various alternative short term energy alternatives, in particular nuclear. We all want to move to clean, renewable energy but it can’t happen overnight and in the meantime it’s picking the least worst option(s) to be as self sufficient as possible

I’ve never seen what’s wrong with nuclear power as a means to solve the energy problem to allow enough time for a longer term replacement to be found. Long term I think harvesting the sunlight hitting the Sahara is the answer for Europe and Africa at least but that requires the wealthier nations to really step up
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Give it a rest Tony. We all know you think everything is brexits fault. It’s a minor part in a far bigger problem.



Shmmeee is right, we should never be reliant on countries like Russia. For example on energy, there’s been a naivety in those that have argued against various alternative short term energy alternatives, in particular nuclear. We all want to move to clean, renewable energy but it can’t happen overnight and in the meantime it’s picking the least worst option(s) to be as self sufficient as possible

Tried to attach FT article but won’t let me. Worth googling
It's been at least 30 years in the making.
So much political prevarication and delay.
Think I argued on here a couple of years ago energy should have been handled through a body independent of government, especially as delays have occurred through strange funding procurement not to mention state security regards who's handling these provisions.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member

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Which is strange because the PM has no problem having multiple women on the go.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
View attachment 21867
Fucking hell, is this accurate?

I mean, I would expect ours to be a bit more expensive, what with the sea in between us and Europe, but that's extortionate.

It's unbelievable that we (and indeed any developed nation) aren't able to create enough renewable energy to service our own needs.

We're surrounded by coast. It's windy and rainy. I'm sure we can invest enough in tidal, wind and hydroelectric to service our needs, topped up with a bit of solar energy.

But of course I know why we haven't done that yet. It's not in the interests of those who have a lot invested in stuff like gas and have a very loud voice in the ear of politicians.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
We’re getting better at ‘recycling’ spent nuclear waste for starts. Can always fire it into the Sun, in all seriousness

Not exactly cheap firing it in a rocket. What if the rocket carrying it exploded in the atmosphere? Not sure how much nuclear waste I want us to be firing into a massive nuclear fireball and upsetting the chemistry anyway.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
I mean, I would expect ours to be a bit more expensive, what with the sea in between us and Europe, but that's extortionate.

It's unbelievable that we (and indeed any developed nation) aren't able to create enough renewable energy to service our own needs.

We're surrounded by coast. It's windy and rainy. I'm sure we can invest enough in tidal, wind and hydroelectric to service our needs, topped up with a bit of solar energy.

But of course I know why we haven't done that yet. It's not in the interests of those who have a lot invested in stuff like gas and have a very loud voice in the ear of politicians.
I wonder what structural factors are at play here?
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
Last time I checked electricity was twice as expensive in Holland than it is in the UK and natural gas has been banned for home heating and cooking even though it's freely available at a very low price for industrial users. It especially hurts low income families who can't afford a modern heating system in a heavily insulated home.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
People are claiming this is fake news further up the thread, I’m not sure that’s right. A quick google will get you old stats and with tax included, but the current wholesale price differential is about what’s in that graphic:

Brexiters will tell you its fake news as they don't want to admit they have helped fuck the country up. They'll also tell you that we have 50K more nurses and 40 new hospitals.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
Brexiters will tell you its fake news as they don't want to admit they have helped fuck the country up. They'll also tell you that we have 50K more nurses and 40 new hospitals.

NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

Id imagine they’ve taken the max values, our range is huge compared to the rest so max vs average would make a big difference.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
**probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....


**people who don't want to be poor, insular and have food on the shelves of supermarkets.
 
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COV

Well-Known Member
NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

So basically its way more expensive here?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
So basically its way more expensive here?

No not to the consumer I cannot see any evidence it is - Denmark from what I see is the most expensive European country though in February this changed



Spot rates generally are irrelevant as most energy suppliers purchase in bulk. You can get fixed rates as a consumer at no real increases to last year if you shop around - businesses can get 5 or 6 year fixed deals especially on electricity very easily.

Rates are clearly rising for wholesale purchases


Spin can be put on anything - household electricity comparisons are not it seems available in 2021 but this is 2020 - so you can I am sure try but there is no Brexit issue here - be disappointed

 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
No not to the consumer I cannot see any evidence it is - Denmark from what I see is the most expensive European country though in February this changed



Spot rates generally are irrelevant as most energy suppliers purchase in bulk. You can get fixed rates as a consumer at no real increases to last year if you shop around - businesses can get 5 or 6 year fixed deals especially on electricity very easily.

Rates are clearly rising for wholesale purchases


Spin can be put on anything - household electricity comparisons are not it seems available in 2021 but this is 2020 - so you can I am sure try but there is no Brexit issue here - be disappointed



giphy.gif


You should tell the news channels and energy orgs on them that 90% of suppliers potentially going bust is fake news then.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
giphy.gif


You should tell the news channels and energy orgs on them that 90% of suppliers potentially going bust is fake news then.

Yes its entirely fake news as the energy suppliers you refer to are tiny and have not purchased bulk wholesale energy - also this I assume will be more related to wholesale gas supply and not electricity. Most small energy franchises should not have been allowed licenses to operate but it has zero to do with anything other than that
 

COV

Well-Known Member
giphy.gif


You should tell the news channels and energy orgs on them that 90% of suppliers potentially going bust is fake news then.

He reminds me of that Iraqi Minister of Information guy who proclaimed the US were about to be destroyed, as the tanks literally rolled in behind him
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
He reminds me of that Iraqi Minister of Information guy who proclaimed the US were about to be destroyed, as the tanks literally rolled in behind him

Please show me a link that shows consumers are paying more here than anywhere else in Europe - cheers look forward to it
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

I understand the general point about it credibility and remain campaign misrepresentation, but, that graphic in shhmmmeee's post still seems to show that the UK is now paying is 100% more for wholesale gas than the average across Europe. That is a fucking disgrace and the government must be held to account for it.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I understand the general point about it credibility and remain campaign misrepresentation, but, that graphic in shhmmmeee's post still seems to show that the UK is now paying is 100% more for wholesale gas than the average across Europe. That is a fucking disgrace and the government must be held to account for it.

But I don't think they are

This graph is 2020 and prices have risen since then and the UK average this year is 17.8 pence per KW

 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
But I don't think they are

This graph is 2020 and prices have risen since then and the UK average this year is 17.8 pence per KW

You're showing the domestic prices from 2020. When the recent increase in wholesale prices filter down into UK household bills we'll compare.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
You're showing the domestic prices from 2020. When the recent increase in wholesale prices filter down into UK household bills we'll compare.

But don't most energy companies actually buy wholesale energy and also sell it at some point? I know one company I work with who has secured a 5 year fixed rate at the same level they had before for electric which I do not see as achievable if everyone was buying these rates
 

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