Do you want to discuss boring politics? (35 Viewers)

duffer · Oct 7, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
There’s two sides to every story though

I understand that workers were offered 5.5%. I also understand that the business is currently losing £1m per day. I think they also have a £50bn pension deficit (I hope that figure is wrong but don’t think it is from a quick Google)

So, if it continues that way, let’s say all workers get paid what they want and the company goes bust, you are out of work and then end up getting less pay and less security working for Hermes etc ?! Government picks up some of the pension but you get less and tax payer picks up some of the tab

Businesses and/or services need to ultimately be viable. I’ve already said if they’re making massive profits and/or bosses at getting ever increasing salaries whilst suppressing employee wages, that’s just wrong but people need to understand that some businesses might not be able to afford inflationary increases

If you can show me a business that would genuinely go bust because of workers demands that have been ignored for so long that they've reverted to strike action, then please do so.

Unions aren't stupid these days

Strange that Royal Mail are losing a million a day when the workers want more, but declaring £758m profit last year, and not too bad in previous years either.

If they're genuinely on the verge of going broke then why have they been and are still paying dividends to their shareholders.

How can they afford to pay their CEO over £600,000 a year, and stick on a £140,000 bonus?

This would seem to meet your criteria for unfairness that merits action, and yet you're still against it?

Royal Mail: operating profit 2021-2022 | Statista

The operating profit of the Royal Mail Group did not follow a stable path, and it mainly experienced dramatic ups and downs from the financial year 2013 to 2022.

www.statista.com

.

Dividend information

Dividends are normally paid twice a year to shareholders and are a distribution of a portion of the Company's profits.

www.royalmailgroup.com

Royal Mail boss handed £140,000 bonus despite company's delivery flaws

Royal Mail's chief executive officer Simon Thompson got an overall annual pay and perks package worth £753,000. The deal included a 'short-term' bonus of £142,000

www.mirror.co.uk

CCFCSteve · Oct 7, 2022

clint van damme said:
So why are we the only G7 country who hasn't yet returned to pre pandemic levels?
Why is our predicted growth so poor compared to other major economies?
They've been affected by covid and Ukraine as well.

Two separate things though Clint. I was talking about inflation. I’ve already said there are plenty of issues with the government but inflation to date has been mainly caused by war/Covid and it’s it’s in a similar ballpark across Europe

Truss/Kwasi’s mini budget could potentially make it even worse though

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Oct 7, 2022

fernandopartridge said:
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

How the fuck can you be 'ideologically opposed' to informing your citizens about ways to save energy and money during the middle of a energy and cost of living crisis? Even JRM was behind it!

Given how she's just going on about a 'bigger pie', is borrowing money to prop up energy giants profits while planning to cut taxes for their executives, has constantly misled people about £2.5k energy cap and now this, I'm actually leaning towards her deliberately harming the interests of many UK citizens, especially the poorest, in favour of big business, rather than just being an absolute idiot. Which she is.

CCFCSteve · Oct 7, 2022

duffer said:
If you can show me a business that would genuinely go bust because of workers demands that have been ignored for so long that they've reverted to strike action, then please do so.

Unions aren't stupid these days

Strange that Royal Mail are losing a million a day when the workers want more, but declaring £758m profit last year, and not too bad in previous years either.

If they're genuinely on the verge of going broke then why have they been and are still paying dividends to their shareholders.

How can they afford to pay their CEO over £600,000 a year, and stick on a £140,000 bonus?

This would seem to meet your criteria for unfairness that merits action, and yet you're still against it?

Royal Mail: operating profit 2021-2022 | Statista

The operating profit of the Royal Mail Group did not follow a stable path, and it mainly experienced dramatic ups and downs from the financial year 2013 to 2022.

www.statista.com

.

Dividend information

Dividends are normally paid twice a year to shareholders and are a distribution of a portion of the Company's profits.

www.royalmailgroup.com

Royal Mail boss handed £140,000 bonus despite company's delivery flaws

Royal Mail's chief executive officer Simon Thompson got an overall annual pay and perks package worth £753,000. The deal included a 'short-term' bonus of £142,000

www.mirror.co.uk

I never said they are on the verge of going bust, just that if things continued, and the Uk postal service is/will continue to struggle, then ultimately it will be in trouble. No business goes bust solely because of workers demands but if a business is struggling/declining then significantly increasing salaries isn’t going to help. Automation, drones etc will ultimately replace a lot of delivery services

I’m sure you saw in the guardian article that the chair commenting that

“We have the best terms and conditions in the industry, we pay 40% more than other parcels companies. We want to retain those terms and conditions and the best way to do that is to make the changes,”

If that’s the case (I don’t know if it is or not) then no, I don’t think they should be striking.

CCFCSteve · Oct 7, 2022

clint van damme said:
One of the biggest drivers of inflation is protecting corporate profits, doing this at a time when there are other drivers outside of government control was reckless.

I’ve mentioned numerous times that profiteering (like petrol companies) should’ve been clamped down on

I also didn’t see any need to reverse the corporation tax increases

wingy · Oct 7, 2022

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
How the fuck can you be 'ideologically opposed' to informing your citizens about ways to save energy and money during the middle of a energy and cost of living crisis? Even JRM was behind it!

Given how she's just going on about a 'bigger pie', is borrowing money to prop up energy giants profits while planning to cut taxes for their executives, has constantly misled people about £2.5k energy cap and now this, I'm actually leaning towards her deliberately harming the interests of many UK citizens, especially the poorest, in favour of big business, rather than just being an absolute idiot. Which she is.

I definitely have a suspicion that there may be an element of using a pretty desperate economic background to determine a shift in worker attitude/behaviour Without legislating for it .

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Oct 7, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
There’s two sides to every story though

I understand that workers were offered 5.5%. I also understand that the business is currently losing £1m per day. I think they also have a £50bn pension deficit (I hope that figure is wrong but don’t think it is from a quick Google)

So, if it continues that way, let’s say all workers get paid what they want and the company goes bust, you are out of work and then end up getting less pay and less security working for Hermes etc ?! Government picks up some of the pension but you get less and tax payer picks up some of the tab

Businesses and/or services need to ultimately be viable. I’ve already said if they’re making massive profits and/or bosses at getting ever increasing salaries whilst suppressing employee wages, that’s just wrong but people need to understand that some businesses might not be able to afford inflationary increases

So do we need a Co-Op style service set up? If the workers get less pay but the company is more profitable, they should at least, in theory, get it via dividends

The biggest problem we have in business is that there is a massive conflict of interest between shareholders and workers, with each trying to get a larger proportion of the pot. Make those the same people and there's no conflict of interest.

skybluetony176 · Oct 7, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
Two separate things though Clint. I was talking about inflation. I’ve already said there are plenty of issues with the government but inflation to date has been mainly caused by war/Covid and it’s it’s in a similar ballpark across Europe

Truss/Kwasi’s mini budget could potentially make it even worse though

I think we’ve already passed the point of “could potentially” haven’t we? Pretty sure we passed that point about 60 seconds after Chris Philps tweeted about how the markets had responded positively before Kwasi finished delivering his budget.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Oct 7, 2022

PVA said:
On Truss blocking the campaign, this is what she is opposed to? Really?!

I have to admit I've always been uncertain about turning off radiators in empty rooms because you can have such a massive temperature discrepancy between adjoining rooms and I've wondered about the stress that might put on the structure over time.

Even so, being 'ideologically opposed' to saving the citizens you're supposed to be putting first money and giving them good advice to prevent further energy and money problems is just absolutely nuts.

It has to be that she's beholden to certain companies and individuals that don't want it because it'll affect their own bank balance.

wingy · Oct 7, 2022

Might be she's giving JRM a shoeing for what I gather comments re UC uplift while also giving out huge libertarian vibes.

clint van damme · Oct 7, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
I’ve mentioned numerous times that profiteering (like petrol companies) should’ve been clamped down on

I also didn’t see any need to reverse the corporation tax increases

So surely that means that some responsibility for inflation lies with the government?

SBAndy · Oct 7, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
“We have the best terms and conditions in the industry, we pay 40% more than other parcels companies. We want to retain those terms and conditions and the best way to do that is to make the changes,”

Surely that is an oxymoron?

clint van damme · Oct 7, 2022

SBAndy said:
Surely that is an oxymoron?

No need for that, Steve's alright, just a bit misguided!

clint van damme · Oct 7, 2022

Must have shown some empathy to the less fortunate

wingy · Oct 7, 2022

Said Kemi is the future the other day

wingy · Oct 7, 2022

wingy · Oct 7, 2022

Was he cynical or critical of Truss' trade deals at a fringe event in the week?

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 7, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
I hope people read the whole post rather than pick certain lines or comments (not just aimed at you NW but happens with most posts that might go against the thread line of everything is the governments/our own fault)

I’m saying that the cause of these things ultimately lies at others doors. If you don’t have 10% inflation, you almost certainly don’t have wide spread strikes.

I’ve said last week was a shambles and I don’t trust Truss and they should be held to account for last week. The mini budget was a joke and not something many people agree with but that’s not caused the problems. I think nurses in particular should be being paid a lot more. I have different views on others but it’s hard to comment without disclosure of what’s been proposed

The strike action is the result of 12 years of sustained underfunding and below inflation pay rises, not the very recent spike. I can just speak for my union, but the groundwork was being laid for a national ballot last year. Which it needs to be, because the ballots have to be postal.

David O'Day · Oct 7, 2022

clint van damme said:
Must have shown some empathy to the less fortunate

Good he has been a long term c**t

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 7, 2022

duffer said:
If you can show me a business that would genuinely go bust because of workers demands that have been ignored for so long that they've reverted to strike action, then please do so.

Unions aren't stupid these days

Strange that Royal Mail are losing a million a day when the workers want more, but declaring £758m profit last year, and not too bad in previous years either.

If they're genuinely on the verge of going broke then why have they been and are still paying dividends to their shareholders.

How can they afford to pay their CEO over £600,000 a year, and stick on a £140,000 bonus?

This would seem to meet your criteria for unfairness that merits action, and yet you're still against it?

Royal Mail: operating profit 2021-2022 | Statista

The operating profit of the Royal Mail Group did not follow a stable path, and it mainly experienced dramatic ups and downs from the financial year 2013 to 2022.

www.statista.com

.

Dividend information

Dividends are normally paid twice a year to shareholders and are a distribution of a portion of the Company's profits.

www.royalmailgroup.com

Royal Mail boss handed £140,000 bonus despite company's delivery flaws

Royal Mail's chief executive officer Simon Thompson got an overall annual pay and perks package worth £753,000. The deal included a 'short-term' bonus of £142,000

www.mirror.co.uk

A bit like multi academy trust CEOs who talk of the need for efficiency savings yet never suggest cutting the biggest costs that provide no classroom benefit: them.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 7, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
Historian admired by Truss says she completely misunderstood his work

Rick Perlstein says the Prime Minister missed the cynicism in his book The Invisible Bridge.

www.independent.co.uk

The idea that someone would come across the account that I offer of the cynicism, intellectual vacuity, and just basic emptiness of the promises that were made by Ronald Reagan in this regard, and say, ‘Jolly good, this is what I’m going to try for England’, is kind of mind-blowing.

I'd lol if she wasn't PM and, worse, elected as PM by her party!

JAM See · Oct 7, 2022

clint van damme said:
Must have shown some empathy to the less fortunate

What's he done?

Reading between the lines, sounds like more sexpesting to me (a la Chris Pincher).

skybluetony176 · Oct 7, 2022

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'd lol if she wasn't PM and, worse, elected as PM by her party!

Just watched QT from last night. I think the public has seen her for what she is already. I can only see it getting worse for the Tories the longer she’s in the hot seat.

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 7, 2022

JAM See said:
What's he done?

Reading between the lines, sounds like more sexpesting to me (a la Chris Pincher).

Still can't get over that name

JAM See · Oct 7, 2022

"The Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) has issued a formal reprimand to the home secretary, Suella Braverman, after sensitive documents were found at a London venue last year.

The ICO said the documents were handed to police by venue staff in September 2021. Among the documents were two extremism analysis unit Home Office reports, a counter-terrorism policing report and personal data, including that of Metropolitan police staff, the ICO said.

It comes after a government investigation concluded the Home Office was the most likely source of the documents, according to the ICO."

For fucks sake. This is the person IN CHARGE OF NATIONAL SECURITY.

skybluetony176 · Oct 7, 2022

JAM See said:
What's he done?

Reading between the lines, sounds like more sexpesting to me (a la Chris Pincher).

Wasn’t there an unnamed Tory MP being accused of spiking drinks and then sexually abusing?

skybluetony176 · Oct 7, 2022

JAM See said:
"The Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) has issued a formal reprimand to the home secretary, Suella Braverman, after sensitive documents were found at a London venue last year.

The ICO said the documents were handed to police by venue staff in September 2021. Among the documents were two extremism analysis unit Home Office reports, a counter-terrorism policing report and personal data, including that of Metropolitan police staff, the ICO said.

It comes after a government investigation concluded the Home Office was the most likely source of the documents, according to the ICO."

For fucks sake. This is the person IN CHARGE OF NATIONAL SECURITY.

Imagine if Diane…

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 7, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
Imagine if Diane…

Exchange of letters between Theresa May and Gavin Williamson - BBC News
Priti Patel quits cabinet over Israel meetings row - BBC News
Anatomy of corruption: Owen Paterson took £500,000 to lobby for his paymasters | Daily Mail Online
Hancock labelled "corrupt" after handing another Covid contract to failing private healthcare company (thelondoneconomic.com)
Seven occasions when Boris Johnson denied No 10 broke Covid rules | Coronavirus | The Guardian

wingy · Oct 7, 2022

The alleged reason for no Government public campaign on energy conservation seemingly due to concern for health of elderly people being spooked and starving themselves etc .
Seems a bit late considering they've probably been doing it for month's when everyone was waiting on Liz's coronation.

SBAndy · Oct 7, 2022

JAM See said:
"The Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) has issued a formal reprimand to the home secretary, Suella Braverman, after sensitive documents were found at a London venue last year.

The ICO said the documents were handed to police by venue staff in September 2021. Among the documents were two extremism analysis unit Home Office reports, a counter-terrorism policing report and personal data, including that of Metropolitan police staff, the ICO said.

It comes after a government investigation concluded the Home Office was the most likely source of the documents, according to the ICO."

For fucks sake. This is the person IN CHARGE OF NATIONAL SECURITY.

In fairness, if it was last year shouldn’t this be filed against Priti Patel?

stupot07 · Oct 7, 2022

SBAndy said:
In fairness, if it was last year shouldn’t this be filed against Priti Patel?

It may have been Braverman in her role as Attorney General, but admittedly it doesn't read that way.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

JAM See · Oct 7, 2022

SBAndy said:
In fairness, if it was last year shouldn’t this be filed against Priti Patel?

They maybe should have qualified it with current home secretary, but it's definitely Braverman.

Liz Truss becomes PM 5th September

Suella Braverman appointed Home Secretary 8th September.

The PM must have known about this (the sensitive document thing), and yet still promoted her to be IN CHARGE OF NATIONAL SECURITY.

It's a shambles.

CCFCSteve · Oct 7, 2022

clint van damme said:
So surely that means that some responsibility for inflation lies with the government?

Not much so far but likely more in future due to recent budget

CCFCSteve · Oct 7, 2022

SBAndy said:
Surely that is an oxymoron?

Think he was talking about changes to working practices not pay etc. Guessing they will probably need more weekend/out of hours working to compete with same day delivery firms

Frostie · Oct 7, 2022

PVA said:
Have Truss and Kwarteng named themselves as part of the Anti-Growth Coalition yet?

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