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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (25 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 13, 2022
  • #20,161
shmmeee said:
Then he should keep his mouth shut. He runs a train union FFS. But he’s got to signal to the other tankies he’s one of the gang. There’ll be no left wing economic shift while it’s attached to this crap.
Click to expand...

His opinion on Ukraine is irrelevant to his position, and it’s irrelevant to the strikes.

Though on your other point-13 years of Labour government saw none of the anti union laws revoked. A couple more have been added in the last 12 with a few more pledged by the next PM. Frankly I care much less about what he says on Ukraine than what he does about working rights and our own economy.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 13, 2022
  • #20,162
Brighton Sky Blue said:
His opinion on Ukraine is irrelevant to his position, and it’s irrelevant to the strikes.

Though on your other point-13 years of Labour government saw none of the anti union laws revoked. A couple more have been added in the last 12 with a few more pledged by the next PM. Frankly I care much less about what he says on Ukraine than what he does about working rights and our own economy.
Click to expand...

You might not care, but a lot of people will.
He's made all the right noises so far and he seems to be getting the message across but this won't go down well and will detract from his points on the economy and workers rights.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, AOM, Deleted member 5849 and 1 other person
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 13, 2022
  • #20,163
clint van damme said:
You might not care, but a lot of people will.
He's made all the right noises so far and he seems to be getting the message across but this won't go down well and will detract from his points on the economy and workers rights.
Click to expand...

Most of what he says there and up to date hasn’t been about Ukraine. If a few lines on that are enough to derail all his other points, then we’re holding him to a ludicrously high standard considering he isn’t even a politician.

Besides, are enough of the general public still glued in on the conflict at the moment for it to sway their opinion based on a few lines in an article? I’m not convinced.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 13, 2022
  • #20,164
Brighton Sky Blue said:
If a few lines on that are enough to derail all his other points, then we’re holding him to a ludicrously high standard considering he isn’t even a politician.
Click to expand...

And we both know that's exactly the way the right wing press will work.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Deleted member 5849
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 13, 2022
  • #20,165
clint van damme said:
And we both know that's exactly the way the right wing press will work.
Click to expand...

Look at the interviews from the first round of strikes. Piers Morgan trying to spin something about his Facebook picture, Kay Burley trying to get him to say picket breakers would be assaulted etc. They are going to spin it all anyway.

Whether we want to admit it or not the public has mostly stopped caring about Ukraine and these comments while unfortunate won’t ruin his image.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 13, 2022
  • #20,166
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Most of what he says there and up to date hasn’t been about Ukraine. If a few lines on that are enough to derail all his other points, then we’re holding him to a ludicrously high standard considering he isn’t even a politician.

Besides, are enough of the general public still glued in on the conflict at the moment for it to sway their opinion based on a few lines in an article? I’m not convinced.
Click to expand...
The majority of the press (despite claims to the contrary) are pro right, pro Tory and just waiting for an opportunity to jump on him and discredit him thus discrediting everything that he stands for. His position is always going to held to a ludicrously high standard in the press simply because he’s the opposite to what they champion. Just look at the partygate coverage of nothing to see here, don’t you know there’s a war on stop wasting police time when their man Boris was caught out breaking his own law’s then lying about it. The second they think that they have a gotcha on Starmer the Mail went from don’t you know there’s a war on stop wasting police time to two weeks of front page headlines of he’s broke the law (he hadn’t) the police must prosecute.

Mick Lynch was always going to be held to a higher standard than anyone else currently in public life simply because he’s anti the establishment, the actual establishment, the establishment that pretends that it’s not the establishment and also anti establishment.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Brighton Sky Blue

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 13, 2022
  • #20,167
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Look at the interviews from the first round of strikes. Piers Morgan trying to spin something about his Facebook picture, Kay Burley trying to get him to say picket breakers would be assaulted etc. They are going to spin it all anyway.

Whether we want to admit it or not the public has mostly stopped caring about Ukraine and these comments while unfortunate won’t ruin his image.
Click to expand...

Well I hope you're right because given Starmers pathetic response to cost of living and workers rights issues we need someone to carry the baton.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 13, 2022
  • #20,168
clint van damme said:
Well I hope you're right because given Starmers pathetic response to cost of living and workers rights issues we need someone to carry the baton.
Click to expand...

Well in Lynch there is someone who can make any right wing media host look daft on the issues that are most pressing to the general public right now. If he ever gets pressed on Ukraine in a TV interview I imagine he’d do what Starmer doesn’t and change the narrative back to what suits him.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 13, 2022
  • #20,169
clint van damme said:
And we both know that's exactly the way the right wing press will work.
Click to expand...

These are his beliefs though. Probably a bit stereotypical but the further left you go, the more anti west or at least sympathetic to Russias position many (not all before there’s a meltdown) appear. I guess he’s probably similar to Corbyn in that respect, like his wider view of the EU/Brexit which he supported

I quite like Lynch. I think he’s articulate and has strong beliefs, even if I don’t agree with all/many of them, I can see where he’s coming from on certain issues and he’s doing a job for his members. Unfortunately for him, the more media you do, the more people get to see other thoughts/beliefs/views which maybe aren’t as palatable to some.

Ultimately, thats a good thing though. I’d rather judge an individual on the whole than small elements of what they present about themselves. Many politicians do their best to avoid this ie Johnson hiding in fridge, Starmers fence sitting and Truss avoiding certain interviews. They’re all examples of minimising what the public know about what those individuals really think…or might say without thinking !
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 13, 2022
  • #20,170
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Most of what he says there and up to date hasn’t been about Ukraine. If a few lines on that are enough to derail all his other points, then we’re holding him to a ludicrously high standard considering he isn’t even a politician.

Besides, are enough of the general public still glued in on the conflict at the moment for it to sway their opinion based on a few lines in an article? I’m not convinced.
Click to expand...
That's the problem though. Left wing people are painted as having to be absolutely whiter than white and completely altruistic otherwise they're hypocrites and untrustworthy.

Can you imagine if the likes of Johnson (or Truss or Sunak) were held to the same standards? They change their message on an hourly basis and in Johnson's case completely ignore the rule of law to do as they please. Yet that's fine.

Johnson ignores the rules to prorogue parliament, Patel ignores them to treat asylum seekers like scum and that's applauded as 'getting on over the establishment'.
Meanwhile strikes without ballot and it's 'they've got no respect for the rules of law'.

It's an absolute joke.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 9744, AOM, Sick Boy and 2 others
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 13, 2022
  • #20,171
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
That's the problem though. Left wing people are painted as having to be absolutely whiter than white and completely altruistic otherwise they're hypocrites and untrustworthy.

Can you imagine if the likes of Johnson (or Truss or Sunak) were held to the same standards? They change their message on an hourly basis and in Johnson's case completely ignore the rule of law to do as they please. Yet that's fine.

Johnson ignores the rules to prorogue parliament, Patel ignores them to treat asylum seekers like scum and that's applauded as 'getting on over the establishment'.
Meanwhile strikes without ballot and it's 'they've got no respect for the rules of law'.

It's an absolute joke.
Click to expand...

In this case Lynch hasn't even been dishonest, he's just given a flawed opinion on foreign affairs.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 14, 2022
  • #20,172
Cancel culture gone mad

Client Challenge
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,173
Sounds like an absolute shambles in government right now. Half of them not doing anything and the other half in-fighting.

Aboard his ghost ship government, Johnson is bored and the ministers are mutinous

When the Treasury organised an emergency meeting between Nadhim Zahawi and the energy companies on Thursday, officials were told the night before that “a repre
www.thetimes.co.uk


Unblocked version here:

archive.ph
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,174
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,175
PVA said:
Click to expand...

Yeah but other than insulating homes, capping energy prices, cutting VAT, a windfall tax, and increasing UC, what policies has Starmer ever proposed that would help with cost of living? Has he got something on women only train carriages?
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Sky Blue Pete and PVA
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,176
shmmeee said:
Yeah but other than insulating homes, capping energy prices, cutting VAT, a windfall tax, and increasing UC, what policies has Starmer ever proposed that would help with cost of living? Has he got something on women only train carriages?
Click to expand...

Exactly. If you ignore all that then he really is no better than this government which is disgraceful.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,177
Great quote from a Labour front bencher

‘They’ve been kicking seven shades of shit out of each other all summer but it’s still all about them. Keir is not cutting though. He could run naked down Whitehall yelling out new policies and Liza Truss’s hat would get more attention’

My monies on Rayner
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,178
shmmeee said:
Yeah but other than insulating homes, capping energy prices, cutting VAT, a windfall tax, and increasing UC, what policies has Starmer ever proposed that would help with cost of living? Has he got something on women only train carriages?
Click to expand...
CCFCSteve said:
Great quote from a Labour front bencher

‘They’ve been kicking seven shades of shit out of each other all summer but it’s still all about them. Keir is not cutting though. He could run naked down Whitehall yelling out new policies and Liza Truss’s hat would get more attention’

My monies on Rayner
Click to expand...

The problem in a nutshell.
 
Reactions: chiefdave
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,179
PVA said:
Click to expand...

The problem would be in six months if things haven’t improved. The best solution I’ve heard was proposed by one of the energy company execs last week. Basically freezing cap for two years, give energy companies access to government funding/support to cover funding gap between wholesale cost and what they can charge customer, pass the cost of freezing the cap onto customers but spread over an extended period (think they were talking 10-15 years). Government could then still step in for those on UC/low incomes that need assistance over that time.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,180
CCFCSteve said:
The problem would be in six months if things haven’t improved. The best solution I’ve heard was proposed by one of the energy company execs last week. Basically freezing cap for two years, give energy companies access to government funding/support to cover funding gap between wholesale cost and what they can charge customer, pass the cost of freezing the cap onto customers but spread over an extended period (think they were talking 10-15 years). Government could then still step in for those on UC/low incomes that need assistance over that time.
Click to expand...

I still don’t understand why they need to jack up the prices when they’re already raking it in?
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,181
CCFCSteve said:
The problem would be in six months if things haven’t improved.
Click to expand...

Then we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it in 6 months time.

We need urgent action now, people can’t wait 6 months. People are literally going to die.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,182
PVA said:
Then we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it in 6 months time.

We need urgent action now, people can’t wait 6 months. People are literally going to die.
Click to expand...

This is the ‘let the bodies pile high’ government, they don’t give a fuck.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Sky Blue Pete
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,183
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I still don’t understand why they need to jack up the prices when they’re already raking it in?
Click to expand...

Some of the companies are racking it in but I’m guessing not from retail customers, many others have gone bust. It’s for the government/ofgem to work out a fair mechanism (so the energy companies share some of the pain). The type of assistance we are taking about ie potentially tens of billions, needs government assistance.

Most companies are having to buy gas on wholesale market which costs X and yet we are saying sell to customers at say 60% of X. They would all go bust if forced to do that without assistance
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,184
Brighton Sky Blue said:
This is the ‘let the bodies pile high’ government, they don’t give a fuck.
Click to expand...

We can argue whether it’s enough and the mechanisms but they obviously do. Sure I read Sunaks previous assistance commitments will cost 30-40bn.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,185
CCFCSteve said:
Some of the companies are racking it in but I’m guessing not from retail customers, many others have gone bust. It’s for the government/ofgem to work out a fair mechanism (so the energy companies share some of the pain). The type of assistance we are taking about ie potentially tens of billions, needs government assistance.

Most companies are having to buy gas on wholesale market which costs X and yet we are saying sell to customers at say 60% of X. They would all go bust if forced to do that without assistance
Click to expand...

So then they should use their profits from other parts of the business to do the decent thing. Which if they were state run would.
CCFCSteve said:
We can argue whether it’s enough and the mechanisms but they obviously do. Sure I read Sunaks previous assistance commitments will cost 30-40bn.
Click to expand...

You defend them more often than not, Steve. Look at their 12 year record, does it suggest on balance they care about the plight of ordinary people? Even now they’re indulging in a leadership contest and doing nothing to act in government.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Deleted member 5849

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,186
Ian1779 said:
A whopping £46 a year - that’ll make a dent for the people that it is relevant to.
In all seriousness it is something that should definitely be done - but he needs to announce more than this soon or risk looking like he’s completely clueless and out of touch with reality.
Click to expand...
so you were saying
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,187
Brighton Sky Blue said:
So then they should use their profits from other parts of the business to do the decent thing. Which if they were state run would.
Click to expand...
Indeed. Worth separating out, that.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Brighton Sky Blue

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,188

sharp cookie
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and Sky Blue Pete
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,189
Brighton Sky Blue said:
So then they should use their profits from other parts of the business to do the decent thing. Which if they were state run would.


You defend them more often than not, Steve. Look at their 12 year record, does it suggest on balance they care about the plight of ordinary people? Even now they’re indulging in a leadership contest and doing nothing to act in government.
Click to expand...

I’m just saying they obviously do give a fuck. Do I think what they’re doing is enough, currently no, do I think they’ve picked the right mechanisms for assistance, also no. Having a leadership battle in the middle of this mess is also not great but let’s be honest, plenty of people wanted it and were calling for it.

I’m just saying that doesn’t mean they don’t give a fuck.

I’ve also said there needs to a debate about nationalisation, water is far easier than energy. I’ll drop a post about France/EDF when I’ve got time later. Our situation is not as simple/straightforward as that and that’s a shitshow
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,190
CCFCSteve said:
I’m just saying they obviously do give a fuck. Do I think what they’re doing is enough, currently no, do I think they’ve picked the right mechanisms for assistance, also no. Having a leadership battle in the middle of this mess is also not great but let’s be honest, plenty of people wanted it and were calling for it.

I’m just saying that doesn’t mean they don’t give a fuck.

I’ve also said there needs to a debate about nationalisation, water is far easier than energy. I’ll drop a post about France/EDF when I’ve got time later. Our situation is not as simple/straightforward as that and that’s a shitshow
Click to expand...

The 12 year record I said, not just the current crisis
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,191
David O'Day said:

sharp cookie
Click to expand...
Ahhh! The old brexit shaped wedge. If the Tories stack them up Sinn Fein will knock them over.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,192
I wonder if Rees-Mogg will be leaving a note on his desk

 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,193
 
Reactions: Otis, AOM, Brighton Sky Blue and 1 other person
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,194
skybluetony176 said:
I wonder if Rees-Mogg will be leaving a note on his desk

Click to expand...

The hypocrisy and double standards of these pricks never ceases to amaze.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, Sky_Blue_Dreamer, AOM and 2 others

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2022
  • #20,195
David O'Day said:
so you were saying
Click to expand...
They are good to be fair. Still not sure why they completely ignore the nationalisation route though… it has overwhelming public support…

 
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