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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (20 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,761
David O'Day said:
Johnson a lifetime of failure

‘It’s been a disaster’: how Boris Johnson’s docklands business hub turned into a ghost town

The former mayor touted the £1.7bn London development as a vibrant beacon for Asian companies. Now there isn’t a single tenant – though the dystopian setting is attracting film crews
www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

I’m sure he wished he could live your life David I bet he’s lying in bed at chequers and thinking “I want to be like IRA David where did it all go wrong”
 
Reactions: TomRad85
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,762
David O'Day said:
Johnson a lifetime of failure

‘It’s been a disaster’: how Boris Johnson’s docklands business hub turned into a ghost town

The former mayor touted the £1.7bn London development as a vibrant beacon for Asian companies. Now there isn’t a single tenant – though the dystopian setting is attracting film crews
www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

A failed Boris Johnson vanity project?


 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,763
Grendel said:
I’m sure he wished he could live your life David I bet he’s lying in bed at chequers and thinking “I want to be like IRA David where did it all go wrong”
Click to expand...

You’re clearly taking the inevitable fall of Boris badly so here’s an inspirational song to cheer you up

 
Reactions: Otis

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,764
PVA said:
A failed Boris Johnson vanity project?


Click to expand...
It's the fact that not one of the offices is in use makes it spectacular
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,765
There are definitely some left wing intellectual heavyweights proving the IQ theory - I’ll get back to researching my XK purchase consideration
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,766
Grendel said:
There are definitely some left wing intellectual heavyweights proving the IQ theory - I’ll get back to researching my XK purchase consideration
Click to expand...
You'd be better off with a Hillman Hunter
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,767
Tory MPs clapping, cheering and hollering as Johnson leaves...after spending the last few weeks telling us Johnson is useless and needs to go.

Also Hoyle having a fit at opposition benches clapping a Tory MP calling out the PM a few weeks ago, but happy to sit in silence watching them circle jerk over Johnson. God he's useless.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Bugsy

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,768
Mission Accomplished? If the mission is taking an 80 seat majority and making the tory party unelectable then congrats Johnson you rock
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,769
David O'Day said:
Mission Accomplished? If the mission is taking an 80 seat majority and making the tory party unelectable then congrats Johnson you rock
Click to expand...
Unelectable to you perhaps....
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,770
Sky Blue Pete said:
Having this debate about the forde report. I am more and more convinced that the left wing of the Labour Party want opposition as it comes without responsibility and accountability
Click to expand...

laughable statement
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,771
Deleted member 5849 said:
The point is it works both ways. Corbyn was prime agitator against his own government after all, but they had a large enough majority he had no effect.

Watch most of those who think Truss is a crazed loon get behind her, as they did Johnson, and you'll see a more effective election fighting machine. I'll grant you that Rees Mogg and co didn't exactly unite behind May, mind you
Click to expand...

A prime agitator = daring to vote against the whip - oh heavens democracy. Come on NW you're better than this.
 
Reactions: Ian1779

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,772
fernandopartridge said:
A prime agitator = daring to vote against the whip - oh heavens democracy. Come on NW you're better than this.
Click to expand...

Or, ya know, agitating

These Rebel MPs Are Planning a War with Labour Austerity

Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and their socialist mates won't let a Labour government implement more austerity.
www.vice.com

Answer me this: if everything the left has done has been perfect, why do they keep losing?

At some point you’ve got to make an honest appraisal of your situation or you’re doomed to repeat the same mistakes.
 
Reactions: oakey and Sky Blue Pete

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,773
David O'Day said:
Was there a US study that linked being right wing with being less intelligent?
Click to expand...
There's a study showing a link between the brain starting to degenerate and being more right wing. The idea being that the first part of the brain to suffer age related damage is the part of the brain that handles empathy, can't remember the actual scientific word they used but that was the general idea.

Should point out that it very clearly stated further research was needed before the link could be proven.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,774
chiefdave said:
There's a study showing a link between the brain starting to degenerate and being more right wing. The idea being that the first part of the brain to suffer age related damage is the part of the brain that handles empathy, can't remember the actual scientific word they used but that was the general idea.

Should point out that it very clearly stated further research was needed before the link could be proven.
Click to expand...

There is an obvious reason for that
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,775
chiefdave said:
There's a study showing a link between the brain starting to degenerate and being more right wing. The idea being that the first part of the brain to suffer age related damage is the part of the brain that handles empathy, can't remember the actual scientific word they used but that was the general idea.

Should point out that it very clearly stated further research was needed before the link could be proven.
Click to expand...

I mean plasticity drops as you age IIRC, so accepting new ideas will always come harder the older you get.

There’s three interesting psychology experiments that I think explain a lot of RW voting.

Loss Aversion: Loss aversion - Wikipedia

Basically humans worry more about losing something than they care about gaining the same amount. So “Labour is going to take your money” hits better than “free stuff!!”

Wealth Decreases Empathy: How Wealth Reduces Compassion

Basically the richer you are the less you care for others.

And the Monopoly Experiment:Why rich people tend to think they deserve their money

Which has some overlap with the above but also shows people who succeed attribute their success to their own hard work regardless of the evidence.

Add in economics meaning the older you get the more you care about asset values and less about income potential, and you’ve got a potent mix to fight as a left winger.
 
Reactions: oakey and chiefdave

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,776
shmmeee said:
Or, ya know, agitating

These Rebel MPs Are Planning a War with Labour Austerity

Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and their socialist mates won't let a Labour government implement more austerity.
www.vice.com

Answer me this: if everything the left has done has been perfect, why do they keep losing?

At some point you’ve got to make an honest appraisal of your situation or you’re doomed to repeat the same mistakes.
Click to expand...
When did the right of the labour party last win an election?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,777
shmmeee said:
Or, ya know, agitating

These Rebel MPs Are Planning a War with Labour Austerity

Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and their socialist mates won't let a Labour government implement more austerity.
www.vice.com
Click to expand...

I thought you were an advocate of the "broad church"?

I think you know full well that Corbyn and McDonnell were / are not non-elected officials using party funds covertly to undermine the party leadership? They were just MPs seeking to broaden their electoral appeal (and let's be honest Labour in 2015 after 5 years of austerity had very little).

You're quoting from an article that makes statements like this with a straight face:

The headlines are radical – on tackling the deficit, an end to austerity, calls for a wealth tax, a minimum wage of £10 an hour and the nationalisation of public services.
Click to expand...

Answer me this: if everything the left has done has been perfect, why do they keep losing?

At some point you’ve got to make an honest appraisal of your situation or you’re doomed to repeat the same mistakes.
Click to expand...

Where have I made such a claim of perfection? One thing is for sure, some officials in the Labour party worked actively to ensure that the left did not win (even if its unclear whether it actually contributed to the defeat or not).
 
Reactions: clint van damme, Ian1779 and wingy

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,778
Surely the most intelligent people are in the middle of the political spectrum. The hard shoulders of each side are a mess, and whilst I fully agree the Alex Jones type lunatics are idiots on one side, some of these so called 'intelligent' people on the left are an absolute joke as well. They don't live in any kind of reality. We seem to spend so much time talking and dealing with the problems of each extreme as well, that a lot of important stuff just gets glossed over.

The Conservatives are a complete mess at the moment and it is astonishing that Labour haven't done anything despite having open goal after open goal for the last few years. Hopefully that will change, as I for one think the Tories should be punished for being such unaccountable twats. That being said, Labour really need to get their house in order and stop being such floppy cocks in order to do it, and they haven't seemed that capable so far.
 
Reactions: oakey
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,779
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Surely the most intelligent people are in the middle of the political spectrum. The hard shoulders of each side are a mess, and whilst I fully agree the Alex Jones type lunatics are idiots on one side, some of these so called 'intelligent' people on the left are an absolute joke as well. They don't live in any kind of reality. We seem to spend so much time talking and dealing with the problems of each extreme as well, that a lot of important stuff just gets glossed over.

The Conservatives are a complete mess at the moment and it is astonishing that Labour haven't done anything despite having open goal after open goal for the last few years. Hopefully that will change, as I for one think the Tories should be punished for being such unaccountable twats. That being said, Labour really need to get their house in order and stop being such floppy cocks in order to do it, and they haven't seemed that capable so far.
Click to expand...

If the status quo were always the most sensible option Christ knows how society would look today.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,780
chiefdave said:
Should point out that it very clearly stated further research was needed before the link could be proven.
Click to expand...

Do we need to give them Grenners details then?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,781
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Surely the most intelligent people are in the middle of the political spectrum. The hard shoulders of each side are a mess, and whilst I fully agree the Alex Jones type lunatics are idiots on one side, some of these so called 'intelligent' people on the left are an absolute joke as well. They don't live in any kind of reality. We seem to spend so much time talking and dealing with the problems of each extreme as well, that a lot of important stuff just gets glossed over.

The Conservatives are a complete mess at the moment and it is astonishing that Labour haven't done anything despite having open goal after open goal for the last few years. Hopefully that will change, as I for one think the Tories should be punished for being such unaccountable twats. That being said, Labour really need to get their house in order and stop being such floppy cocks in order to do it, and they haven't seemed that capable so far.
Click to expand...

The intelligent centre you talk about have been in charge of the Labour party for the last two years lol
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,782
fernandopartridge said:
The intelligent centre you talk about have been in charge of the Labour party for the last two years lol
Click to expand...

I don't agree I'm afraid. If Labour behaved as if they were a centrist party then they would be in power now.
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk, oakey and Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,783
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I don't agree I'm afraid. If Labour behaved as if they were a centrist party then they would be in power now.
Click to expand...

Is laughing at the unions not centrist enough?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,784
You could argue that heading for the middle shows a lack of vision. Nietzsche, Rousseau, Marx, Mill weren't centrists.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,785
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I don't agree I'm afraid. If Labour behaved as if they were a centrist party then they would be in power now.
Click to expand...
Lol

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,786
Neither, of course, were the governments with the most influence on us in the 20th century. Lloyd George, Attlee (although compared to Bevan he was!) and even Churchill were not centrists.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,787
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Surely the most intelligent people are in the middle of the political spectrum. The hard shoulders of each side are a mess, and whilst I fully agree the Alex Jones type lunatics are idiots on one side, some of these so called 'intelligent' people on the left are an absolute joke as well. They don't live in any kind of reality. We seem to spend so much time talking and dealing with the problems of each extreme as well, that a lot of important stuff just gets glossed over.

The Conservatives are a complete mess at the moment and it is astonishing that Labour haven't done anything despite having open goal after open goal for the last few years. Hopefully that will change, as I for one think the Tories should be punished for being such unaccountable twats. That being said, Labour really need to get their house in order and stop being such floppy cocks in order to do it, and they haven't seemed that capable so far.
Click to expand...
It depends on what type of intelligence.

If we're talking about pragmatic realism, then yes, centre ground would be.

Those more to the left maybe don't have that realism as much, and their ideas are more radical, but that doesn't necessarily make them bad or unintelligent. Look at some of the things that in the past were considered totally crazy suggestions yet nowadays are accepted truth. Woman/blacks/poor being as intelligent and capable as men/whites/rich, homosexuality and same sex marriage, not running society for the benefit of a group of elites, climate change. All of these would have been considered totally radical nonsense at one point, but have steadily moved into being the norm.

I consider myself a bit in the last group, as I have quite radical ideas. But I also know that there would every attempt made to scupper them by those with a vested self interest and a lot more power and influence than me. Some would need 'ducks lined up' and two or three different things occurring simultaneously to be effective when it's nigh on impossible getting just one through. Add in the natural suspicion and fear of anything different and people playing on those fears and I know I can't win, even if I'm confident what I'm suggesting would be an improvement on how things are.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,788
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Is laughing at the unions not centrist enough?
Click to expand...

Why have you suddenly turned into a Strawbs tribute act?
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,789
fernandopartridge said:
Lol

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You can 'LOL' all you want, but that kind of attitude is exactly why Labour haven't won despite numerous open goals over the last few years. I honestly think come voting time most people are picking between what they perceive as the lesser of two evils. The Tory credit in the bank is definitely slipping in that sense, but to be on the sidelines and watch them implode, without being able to take advantage of it is embarrassing.

Labour could win pretty easily if they got rid of the kind of attitude you are showing here, and I say that as someone who is a complete swing voter.
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk and Deleted member 9744
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,790
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
It depends on what type of intelligence.

If we're talking about pragmatic realism, then yes, centre ground would be.

Those more to the left maybe don't have that realism as much, and their ideas are more radical, but that doesn't necessarily make them bad or unintelligent. Look at some of the things that in the past were considered totally crazy suggestions yet nowadays are accepted truth. Woman/blacks/poor being as intelligent and capable as men/whites/rich, homosexuality and same sex marriage, not running society for the benefit of a group of elites, climate change. All of these would have been considered totally radical nonsense at one point, but have steadily moved into being the norm.

I consider myself a bit in the last group, as I have quite radical ideas. But I also know that there would every attempt made to scupper them by those with a vested self interest and a lot more power and influence than me. Some would need 'ducks lined up' and two or three different things occurring simultaneously to be effective when it's nigh on impossible getting just one through. Add in the natural suspicion and fear of anything different and people playing on those fears and I know I can't win, even if I'm confident what I'm suggesting would be an improvement on how things are.
Click to expand...

Rumbled


 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,791
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You can 'LOL' all you want, but that kind of attitude is exactly why Labour haven't won despite numerous open goals over the last few years. I honestly think come voting time most people are picking between what they perceive as the lesser of two evils. The Tory credit in the bank is definitely slipping in that sense, but to be on the sidelines and watch them implode, without being able to take advantage of it is embarrassing.

Labour could win pretty easily if they got rid of the kind of attitude you are showing here, and I say that as someone who is a complete swing voter.
Click to expand...

Are you ignoring 2010 and 2015 then? Ignoring the decline of the Liberal Democrats?
 
Reactions: oakey and Brighton Sky Blue
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,792
Grendel said:
Why have you suddenly turned into a Strawbs tribute act?
Click to expand...

Well ignoring that I represent one was Labour not born out of trade unions as their political arm? It still takes money off some of them but oddly the leader at best ignores them or at worst takes the piss
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,793
fernandopartridge said:
When did the right of the labour party last win an election?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

When did the left?

TBH I think, and I think you agree, that it’s liberalism rather than being left wing that’s the issue. And on that both sides are the issue.

I know I’ve pulled these out before but I think they say so much


 
Reactions: fernandopartridge

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,794
Liz Truss will be PM then. Much more liked by the grassroots Tory party, than Sunak.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: chohan

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 20, 2022
  • #18,795
stupot07 said:
Liz Truss will be PM then. Much more liked by the grassroots Tory party, than Sunak.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Brilliant for the Labour party who now can't really lose the next election

Terrible for the country until then
 
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