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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (37 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,656
PVA said:
Well yes, but doesn't matter whether it's Truss or Johnson - the Tory leader is not competent.

Truss is utterly hopeless, but I don't see things being any worse under her than Johnson (can they get any worse!?).

So I'll happily trade a year of Truss for a significant positive change afterwards.
Click to expand...

A lot of damage could be done in two years and there’s going to be some massive decisions to make regarding the economy, NI protocol and the war

Look at the people who publicly support truss, if some of them are going to be in the cabinet we are in trouble
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,657
PVA said:
Yes so he's more likely to win the next election than Truss
Click to expand...
So the election is then on policy and ideology.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,658
Deleted member 5849 said:
So the election is then on policy and ideology.
Click to expand...

with him it’s binary so if it’s Corbyn Foot or Starmer vote Labour if he’s against Heath major or Johnson
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,659
CCFCSteve said:
A lot of damage could be done in two years and there’s going to be some massive decisions to make regarding the economy, NI protocol and the war

Look at the people who publicly support truss, if some of them are going to be in the cabinet we are in trouble
Click to expand...
There's also potentially decisions to be made ref COVID and vaccines this autumn and winter too.

Plenty of things she and her backers can fuck up irreparably!
 
Reactions: Otis
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,660
Grendel said:
with him it’s binary so if it’s Corbyn Foot or Starmer vote Labour if he’s against Heath major or Johnson
Click to expand...
Thing is I'd vote Starker against Sunak in all probability, but I want hope it's not scorched earth if Conservatives win!!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,661
Deleted member 5849 said:
There's also potentially decisions to be made ref COVID and vaccines this autumn and winter too.

Plenty of things she and her backers can fuck up irreparably!
Click to expand...

I suppose it will be fairly good fun and a test of the constitutional system
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,662
Deleted member 5849 said:
Thing is I'd vote Starker against Sunak in all probability, but I want hope it's not scorched earth if they win!!
Click to expand...

Would you have voted for the foot benn combo against Heath if they’d stood at the same time. Funny from a eu perspective
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,663
Grendel said:
with him it’s binary so if it’s Corbyn Foot or Starmer vote Labour if he’s against Heath major or Johnson
Click to expand...

A bit rich from you given you'll excuse Islamophobia and sexual harassment if they wear a blue tie.

And wanting the Tories out is not binary. The majority of the country would agree with me on needing that.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,664
Grendel said:
Would you have voted for the foot benn combo against Heath if they’d stood at the same time. Funny from a eu perspective
Click to expand...
That's an interesting one. Without being there I couldn't tell you, but I always said I wasn't averse to a lefty Brexit (protectionism, state aid, cut VAT) but we were never going to get that.

Shows how far we shifted that Heath was left of Blair in many ways!

You need to add a Roy Jenkins led Alliance to that as well of course.
 
Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2022

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,665
PVA said:
A bit rich given you'll excuse Islamophobia and sexual harassment if they wear a blue tie.

And wanting the Tories out is not binary. The majority of the country would agree with me on needing that.
Click to expand...

I’ll ignore the first paragraph of nonsense and oddly you’d accuse me of classic deflection

So Let’s ignore Heath and go the full Margaret Thatcher vs Michael Foot and Lord Anthony Wedgewood Benn - who’d get your vote?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,666
Deleted member 5849 said:
That's an interesting one. Without being there I couldn't tell you, but I always said I wasn't averse to a lefty Brexit (protectionism, state aid, cut VAT) but we were never going to get that.

Shows how far we shifted that Heath was left of Blair in many ways!
Click to expand...

Well it is interesting - Heath is the last probable traditional conservative leader though I guess you could argue Major was similar but by then the Bennites it seemed on eu policy had infiltrated the Tory party.

It is an interesting thought that if Foot had won the election how history round have shaped itself both here and in the EU
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,667
Grendel said:
I’ll ignore the first paragraph of nonsense and oddly you’d accuse me of classic deflection

So Let’s ignore Heath and go the full Margaret Thatcher vs Michael Foot and Lord Anthony Wedgewood Benn - who’d get your vote?
Click to expand...

It's not a deflection. You've made it quite clear you have no problem with Tories committing sexual harassment.

As for your second paragraph I couldn't give a toss about a bunch of politicians serving before I was even born.

Funnily I'm more concerned with the here and now and the priority is getting rid of the corrupt bunch of cunts in government.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,668
Grendel said:
Well it is interesting - Heath is the last probable traditional conservative leader though I guess you could argue Major was similar but by then the Bennites it seemed on eu policy had infiltrated the Tory party.

It is an interesting thought that if Foot had won the election how history round have shaped itself both here and in the EU
Click to expand...
Major didn't seem particularly moderate at the time - he does now!
 
Reactions: Otis

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,669
PVA said:
It's not a deflection. You've made it quite clear you have no problem with Tories committing sexual harassment.

As for your second paragraph I couldn't give a toss about a bunch of politicians serving before I was even born.

Funnily I'm more concerned with the here and now and the priority is getting rid of the corrupt bunch of cunts in government.
Click to expand...

Yes I have made it clear and again this conversation isn’t about sexual harassment

Regarding a bunch of politicians before you were born wasn’t that one of the selling points of Mr Starmer and his rather convenient name?

Everyone who comments on politics should have an understanding of the past history - I don’t think the Labour Party would have actually survived at all if McMillan hadn’t retired from politics - it was before I was born - but if you have interest in politics you should learn and read about it

Including the present which is why I advised you to read up on Mr Starmer but as he’s Labour it’s ok with you. If it was 1924 no doubt if you lived in Smethwick you’d have been very smitten with the Labour candidate against the terrible Neville Chamberlain
 
Reactions: PVA
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,670
Grendel said:
Yes I have made it clear and again this conversation isn’t about sexual harassment

Regarding a bunch of politicians before you were born wasn’t that one of the selling points of Mr Starmer and his rather convenient name?

Everyone who comments on politics should have an understanding of the past history - I don’t think the Labour Party would have actually survived at all if McMillan hadn’t retired from politics - it was before I was born - but if you have interest in politics you should learn and read about it

Including the present which is why I advised you to read up on Mr Starmer but as he’s Labour it’s ok with you. If it was 1924 no doubt if you lived in Smethwick you’d have been very smitten with the Labour candidate against the terrible Neville Chamberlain
Click to expand...
Tbf said candidate shifted as chameleon like as Liz Truss!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,671
Deleted member 5849 said:
Tbf said candidate shifted as chameleon like as Liz Truss!
Click to expand...

But at the time he was LABOUR and we needed as was so eloquently put to then think of the here and now and get those cunts out of office

What a powerful and educated political debate

Also even I would defend truss against that level of deviation
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,672
Grendel said:
Yes I have made it clear and again this conversation isn’t about sexual harassment

Regarding a bunch of politicians before you were born wasn’t that one of the selling points of Mr Starmer and his rather convenient name?

Everyone who comments on politics should have an understanding of the past history - I don’t think the Labour Party would have actually survived at all if McMillan hadn’t retired from politics - it was before I was born - but if you have interest in politics you should learn and read about it

Including the present which is why I advised you to read up on Mr Starmer but as he’s Labour it’s ok with you. If it was 1924 no doubt if you lived in Smethwick you’d have been very smitten with the Labour candidate against the terrible Neville Chamberlain
Click to expand...

You're totally missing the point.

I don't care about history or 1924. I'm not Labour or nothing - I've voted for several parties.

I'm only interested in getting this cabal of crooks out and right now the best chance of doing that is Labour
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,673
Grendel said:
But at the time he was LABOUR and we needed as was so eloquently put to then think of the here and now and get those cunts out of office
Click to expand...
At the time though his policies weren't quite so... divisive. Was also a time when people shuffled more b result, if not so extremely. Lloyd George broke the Liberal Party being propped up by Tories, and MacDonald did the same for Labour.

And as for that Churchill fella...
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,674
PVA said:
You're totally missing the point.

I don't care about history or 1924. I'm not Labour or nothing - I've voted for several parties.

I'm only interested in getting this cabal of crooks out and right now the best chance of doing that is Labour
Click to expand...
But if you don't pull the Tory Party towards normal, there's forever a risk of nutters. That means don't elect the current nutter in chief?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,675
I wonder if Truss’ first meaningful decision will have to be scrap the Rwanda plan


It will be a short honeymoon with her cheerleaders if she does.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,676
Tory Mebership are batshit Update:

 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,677
shmmeee said:
Tory Mebership are batshit Update:

Click to expand...
Please tell me that's a small proportion of them
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,678
Deleted member 5849 said:
Please tell me that's a small proportion of them
Click to expand...

he may make a comeback in 12 months if Truss wins
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,679
Deleted member 5849 said:
Please tell me that's a small proportion of them
Click to expand...

1% TBF
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,680
Grendel said:
he may make a comeback in 12 months if Truss wins
Click to expand...
Imagine. A spot of fridge hiding, and five more years
 
Reactions: SkyBlueCharlie9 and Otis

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,681
Deleted member 5849 said:
Imagine. A spot of fridge hiding, and five more years
Click to expand...

count me in
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,682
PVA said:
A bit rich from you given you'll excuse Islamophobia and sexual harassment if they wear a blue tie.

And wanting the Tories out is not binary. The majority of the country would agree with me on needing that.
Click to expand...
So Starmer’s job between now and the next election is showing people he doesn’t lead a party of TorIes in red ties.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,683
Ian1779 said:
So Starmer’s job between now and the next election is showing people he doesn’t lead a party of TorIes in red ties.
Click to expand...

Something I never get about this accusation. If you’re a dirty right wing careerist desperate to get into power and be a Tory, why not just … be a Tory? Like they win much more, why not cross the floor and have it easy with your Tory mates?
 
Reactions: PVA

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,684
shmmeee said:
Something I never get about this accusation. If you’re a dirty right wing careerist desperate to get into power and be a Tory, why not just … be a Tory? Like they win much more, why not cross the floor and have it easy with your Tory mates?
Click to expand...
It’s not an accusation - but if you want the electorate to get the Tories out then you at least show them that you aren’t like them. The electorate is bigger than 50+ white homeowners in the North of England. You can’t take the rest for granted.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,685
Ian1779 said:
It’s not an accusation - but if you want the electorate to get the Tories out then you at least show them that you aren’t like them. The electorate is bigger than 50+ white homeowners in the North of England. You can’t take the rest for granted.
Click to expand...

In what way are Labour not different to the Tories? It’s just a lazy accusation. We’ve seen what happens with the Labour right in power: we get Sure Start and NMW and LGBT reform and massive investment in public services, massive poverty and homelessness decreases, economic growth. Because while they may be the right of Labour, they’re significantly to the left of the Tories.

The electorate is indeed bigger than 50+ homeowners, and it’s an order of magnitude bigger than the number of committed socialists.
 
Reactions: PVA
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,686
Deleted member 5849 said:
But the damage in the meantime could be great. And do you want her in charge of any crises coming up?
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Of course not. It would be disastrous.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,687
Also: the Tory Party is the most effective election winning machine in the world. They don’t believe everything they say because they know first they get elected then they stuff their mates pockets with cash.

Any winning election strategy is, by definition, going to look a bit “Tory”.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,688
shmmeee said:
In what way are Labour not different to the Tories? It’s just a lazy accusation. We’ve seen what happens with the Labour right in power: we get Sure Start and NMW and LGBT reform and massive investment in public services, massive poverty and homelessness decreases, economic growth. Because while they may be the right of Labour, they’re significantly to the left of the Tories.

The electorate is indeed bigger than 50+ homeowners, and it’s an order of magnitude bigger than the number of committed socialists.
Click to expand...
It’s not a lazy accusation… just one you don’t like. These are things that Labour did 15 years ago. Are you telling me Starmer and Reeves are going to do all that again. Do you really believe that?
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,689
Deleted member 5849 said:
Call me old fashioned, but I want to vote on competent leaders, and it be about policy and ideology.
Click to expand...
That's not an option in this leadership race. Obviously Truss is even less competent than the other two but they are also useless.
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2022
  • #18,690
Deleted member 5849 said:
Sunak appears to be competent.
Click to expand...
Where do you get that idea from?
 
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