Do you want to discuss boring politics?

Philosorapter

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2013
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I think pre 2001 Blair was very much liked by many in Britain.

The wars had a huge impact on how people saw him after that , more so the Iraq war
Councillor a decade after 2001. It's pretty shocking.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2013
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I’m no fan of Blair, but I am a fan of democracy and his government was objectively better on every measure I care about (climate/economy/education) than any other in my lifetime. He’s also done infinitely more than any other Labour leader in my lifetime, because he actually got elected. If Blairism is what gets a Labour government I’d take it. Any Labour government is better than any Conservative government.
We agree on something then
 

clint van damme

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May 3, 2015
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I've already said they don't..People's problems with labour are not about policies ...labour and it's followers are about as likeable as a fart in a bottle of water
And again whats likable about the tories?
Its ok saying why you don't like Labour but that doesn't explain why people turn to the tories.

There are some of the most repugnant fuckers you could ever come across in the tories.
 

Evo1883

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May 25, 2013
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We probably agree on an awful lot, I’m just having a post work rant at the world because the average British voter makes less sense to me than the average woman and you’re the idiot who keeps replying :p
I keep replying because you've been talking down to me and I don't appreciate it if I'm being honest
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2013
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And again whats likable about the tories?
Its ok saying why you don't like Labour but that doesn't explain why people turn to the tories.

There are some of the most repugnant fuckers you could ever come across in the tories.
I don't know mate tbh
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2011
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Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
I keep replying because you've been talking down to me and I don't appreciate it if I'm being honest
Sorry it’s genuinely not personal, and I don’t mean to talk down to you, I respect you a lot. You just became the avatar for all I don’t get that frustrates me about the political dialogue here. As I say it’s always Labour having to be perfect and never the other way.
 
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Evo1883

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May 25, 2013
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Sorry it’s genuinely not personal, and I don’t mean to talk down to you, I respect you a lot. You just became the avatar for all I don’t get that frustrates me about the political dialogue here. As I say it’s always Labour having to be perfect and never the other way.
Likewise , I hold my tongue for the very same reason , respect
 
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Philosorapter

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Aug 7, 2013
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I think we are definitely going to need a Coventry local election thread.

Imagine the fun :D
 

Philosorapter

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2013
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We can look back over newspapers articles from the last 4-5 years and guess if the councillor is Labour or Tory :D
 

Philosorapter

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Aug 7, 2013
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To be honest, I don't know about others, but I have minimal interest in it.
That's the thing though. Ask what separates Labour from the Tory in Coventry and you will find we are voting for managers instead of ideologies.

It's why the turnout has plummeted in the city. Completely lost the working vote.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2012
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I've already said they don't..People's problems with labour are not about policies ...labour and it's followers are about as likeable as a fart in a bottle of water
To be honest if that’s where we are at in politics we may as well just move straight to a China style one-party state. It’s about making peoples lives better, not the X Factor.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2013
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To be honest if that’s where we are at in politics we may as well just move straight to a China style one-party state. It’s about making peoples lives better, not the X Factor.
If people aren't voting for their policies , then you have to look at why they aren't voting for you and that's the MPs , and arguably the supporters too .

They've rubbed normal working class people up the wrong way for a good while now

And yes I know the Tories are shit .

And yes il vote Labour too

This is my last input on any off topic subject too ..because I can't be bothered .
 

dubed

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2012
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Nationalism, populism, jingoism

All things a big chunk of the working class seem to value over improving public services and quality of life.
Jingoism, I feel not. Nationalism, populism, yes but probably no more in this than Labour's use of the same. Britain has always been a small c-conservative nation of people, equally at home with individualistic as well as collectivist policies that speak to stability, family, prosperity. The nearest Labour came to this was the Blair governments.

Wouldn't it be more constructive to ask why people have turned away from Labour rather than simply view Labour as the victim of a population's ignorance and intelligence?
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2011
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Jingoism, I feel not. Nationalism, populism, yes but probably no more in this than Labour's use of the same. Britain has always been a small c-conservative nation of people, equally at home with individualistic as well as collective policies that speak to stability, family, prosperity. The nearest Labour came to this was the Blair governments.

Wouldn't it be more constructive to ask why people have turned away from Labour rather than simply view Labour as the victim of a population's ignorance and intelligence?
Definitely jingoism too...


Definition of jingoism

: extreme chauvinism or nationalism marked especially by a belligerent foreign policy
 

dubed

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Aug 14, 2012
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Definitely jingoism too...


Definition of jingoism

: extreme chauvinism or nationalism marked especially by a belligerent foreign policy
I think most folks think of Jingoism in particular terms, but if this is your best response then I think you have made my case.
 
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dubed

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Aug 14, 2012
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And what particular terms are they?
I believe most people view jingo-ism as a belligerent and aggressive form of nationalism, you know, a bit like a Labour government joining in a certain shock and awe campaign, or Thatcher standing on the steps of No 10 saying 'Rejoice'. Or maybe it's victimised Labour supporters thinking that they are holders of a truth that they must take to an ignorant and stupid population.
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2011
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I believe most people view jingo-ism as a belligerent and aggressive form of nationalism, you know, a bit like a Labour government joining in a certain shock and awe campaign, or Thatcher standing on the steps of No 10 saying 'Rejoice'. Or maybe it's victimised Labour supporters thinking that they are holders of a truth that they must take to an ignorant and stupid population.
Yes, a belligerent form of Nationalism. So we agree.

The examples you give are perfectly valid. This government is also jingoistic.

It doesn't literally have to involve war for something to be jingoistic.
 
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PVA

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Apr 22, 2011
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Just pathetic.
The question was:

'how do the tories appeal to the working class?'

I answered.

You then said it would be good to ask why people are turning away from Labour which is a perfectly valid question, but not the one I was answering.

just don't think you know what jingoism means. Is breaking international law not belligerent enough for you?

Edit: you've deleted your post
 

dubed

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2012
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The question was:

'how do the tories appeal to the working class?'

I answered.

You then said it would be good to ask why people are turning away from Labour which is a perfectly valid question, but not the one I was answering.

just don't think you know what jingoism means. Is breaking international law not belligerent enough for you?

Edit: you've deleted your post
I really cannot be bothered to engage in a discussion about the definition of jingoism and its use by the parties when it was not the central point chap.

You tire me. Tell you what, you post a response to show that you've had the last say and so have successfully educated the masses.
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2011
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I really cannot be bothered to engage in a discussion about the definition of jingoism and its use by the parties when it was not the central point chap.

You tire me. Tell you what, you post a response to show that you've had the last say and so have successfully educated the masses.
I'm not trying to have the last say or to 'educate the masses'. I never said that. that's just what you seem to think I want.

I answered a question, you responded fairly... But then added some narrative about Labour at the end of it which wasn't really relevant and changed the definition of Jingoism to suit.

FWIW, I am not a Labour supporter. I am just vehemently anti this appalling and abhorrent government.
 
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Brighton Sky Blue

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Jan 11, 2012
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Seems like Hartlepool will also go Tory just because, well, why not. Send a whole region to the doldrums for decades and get rewarded because some guy in a clown costume told some jokes while hiding in a fridge.
 
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shmmeee

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Jul 11, 2011
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Seems like Hartlepool will also go Tory just because, well, why not. Send a whole region to the doldrums for decades and get rewarded because some guy in a clown costume told some jokes while hiding in a fridge.
Hey now! Labour are just as bad because something something Toby Blair and despite all the corruption death and poverty the Tories are great and just love this country. And I know exactly what I voted for DONT YOU DARE CALL ME STUPID AND NO I CAN’T JUSTIFY MY VOTING DECISIONS STOP ASKING ME!!!!1!1!1!
 
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Skybluefaz

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Aug 1, 2011
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Seems like Hartlepool will also go Tory just because, well, why not. Send a whole region to the doldrums for decades and get rewarded because some guy in a clown costume told some jokes while hiding in a fridge.
I think there is something about deporting immigrants and that which tickles their particular fancy.
 

Grendel

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Sep 19, 2011
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Grendel

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Sep 19, 2011
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I just don't like them. Guess it means the style of cars I do like will be cheaper(!)
They were only 10% of the market a few years ago and now are 40% - lifestyle wise they are a much better family option - I’m waiting for my diesel guzzler to arrive soon. 👍