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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (49 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,091
shmmeee said:
Nah it’s a particular corner of academia which has repeatedly been shown to have poor standards, group think, and unprovable views. Why that’s bleeding into government policy is an interesting question though.
Click to expand...

When my old man went to Warwick University (old man is a Labour voter)
It certainly didn't sound like a well balanced place for reason and debate .

You either thought the same as they did or you were on your way off the course

It's very left wing
 
Reactions: TomRad85
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,092
Evo1883 said:
Well I'm more on about the public opinion In general , it's not about left or right is it most people think it's fucking nuts .

The people asking the policies are all well educated academics coming from this background
Click to expand...
Lazy stereotyping of the academy, there.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueCharlie9, Brighton Sky Blue and stupot07

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,093
Evo1883 said:
When my old man went to Warwick University (old man is a Labour voter)
It certainly didn't sound like a well balanced place for reason and debate .

You either thought the same as they did or you were on your way off the course
Click to expand...

I mean if the course is engineering then that’s fine. The problem is treating social science as as solid as physical science IMO.
 
Reactions: oakey

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,094
Deleted member 5849 said:
Lazy stereotyping of the academy, there.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that's true
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,095
shmmeee said:
I mean if the course is engineering then that’s fine. The problem is treating social science as as solid as physical science IMO.
Click to expand...

It wasn't engineering , it was psychology he did his last 2 years at Warwick uni
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,096
On a different subject, I'm appalled at the way the US and UK are abandoning the poor afghan people like this .

What a tragic waste of time , resources and life the last 20 years have been .

Along with Iraq (which both Blair and Bush should pay for ) the way we've destabilised the whole region and the world in the process is nothing short of criminal

Where is the same western justice we applied to the middle east and its leaders
 
Reactions: skybluegod, Deleted member 9744, Paul Anthony and 2 others

Skybluefaz

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,097
Evo1883 said:
On a different subject, I'm appalled at the way the US and UK are abandoning the poor afghan people like this .

What a tragic waste of time , resources and life the last 20 years have been .

Along with Iraq (which both Blair and Bush should pay for ) the way we've destabilised the whole region and the world in the process is nothing short of criminal

Where is the same western justice we applied to the middle east and its leaders
Click to expand...
Horrible to see them reverting to taliban rule after I believe yourself and others have given so much to make a difference to people's lives over there. Do you think us and the US should have kept permanent bases over there like have existed in Germany and Japan since the war?

There was a fella talking about this on 5 live the other day and its hard to see another way around it.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,098
Skybluefaz said:
Horrible to see them reverting to taliban rule after I believe yourself and others have given so much to make a difference to people's lives over there. Do you think us and the US should have kept permanent bases over there like have existed in Germany and Japan since the war?

There was a fella talking about this on 5 live the other day and its hard to see another way around it.
Click to expand...

Ultimately we should never have gone there ... but as we did we had to stay there in some capacity for the foreseeable
 
Reactions: clint van damme

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,099
Sadly what may now happen is a new war on Afghanistan , international pressure may see to that
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,100
"David Skelton: Is a new form of snobbery reshaping British politics? - BBC News" Is a new form of snobbery reshaping Britain? - BBC News
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,101
shmmeee said:
I mean if the course is engineering then that’s fine. The problem is treating social science as as solid as physical science IMO.
Click to expand...

On my PhD I had to include proof that room temperature in the lab was what I said it was. On my PGCE I could make up quotes and evidence from students without any of it being verified.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,102
shmmeee said:
You sound like someone who can’t explain what they’re on about so resorts to insults.

Gender is sex stereotypes. That’s what I’ve always been taught: boys have short hair, girls can’t throw, etc etc.

It says transgender people are people who’s gender isn’t the same as their sex. Which makes no sense so I assume they mean they don’t conform to sex stereotypes.

If you have a better description feel free to give it. I seriously doubt you have though.

You’ll be the third person in this thread to get get angry and abusive and be completely unable to answer basic questions about the ideology you’re getting angry about. It’s tiresome.
Click to expand...

Sex is a biological certainty. Gender is a human construct that has become ingrained into our psyche.

The way forward isn't to start creating new constructs to fit people into, its to dismantle the constructs that already exists.

We're going to get nowhere until we realise gender doesn't actually exist and people should be free to act as they please regardless of what sex they are.
 
Reactions: oakey

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,103
Evo1883 said:
When my old man went to Warwick University (old man is a Labour voter)
It certainly didn't sound like a well balanced place for reason and debate .

You either thought the same as they did or you were on your way off the course

It's very left wing
Click to expand...

From my own experience I'd agree about uni not being a place for debate. On my course attempts to question what was being taught weren't welcomed or dismissed as you not being as clever as them. Plus as the lecturers were responsible for marking papers/work etc if you wanted to get a decent mark you had to basically agree with the way they thought. Some of the stuff I was questioning has since been debunked, like trickle-down economics.

I felt I was far more able to question stuff at GCSE and A level and differ from the norm but still get a decent mark as long as you could argue your point well. I didn't feel I got that at uni, which was disappointing.

But as I alluded too my degree was economics/accounts based and so the thinking behind it was not left wing at all.

Also look at a lot of people in the govt with degrees from unis. Johnson, JRM, Sunak, Cameron etc. Hardly left wing are they? I doubt those going to places like LSE are hotbeds of lefties.

So while I reckon there is probably a heavily entrenched mindset in certain areas that would be very left wing, I reckon there's just as many with entrenched right wing. It just depends on which area you're studying.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,104
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Sex is a biological certainty. Gender is a human construct that has become ingrained into our psyche.

The way forward isn't to start creating new constructs to fit people into, its to dismantle the constructs that already exists.

We're going to get nowhere until we realise gender doesn't actually exist and people should be free to act as they please regardless of what sex they are.
Click to expand...

100%

The idea that we’re telling kids “if you don’t do X Y or Z you’re not a *real* boy/girl and are probably something else” is some regressive bullshit.
 
Reactions: TomRad85 and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,105
So the PM is responding to very urgent international crisis of whats happening in Afghanistan by recalling Parliament on Wednesday....yes Wednesday....must be busy buying nappies

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,106
Brighton Sky Blue said:
On my PhD I had to include proof that room temperature in the lab was what I said it was. On my PGCE I could make up quotes and evidence from students without any of it being verified.
Click to expand...

This.

That doesn’t mean there isn’t value in social sciences, but a recognition of the evidence base behind theories is needed.

Education is chock full of grifters and woo. The amount of arguments I had about “learning styles” and the lack of evidence for them.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue, Ian1779 and oakey

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,107
Evo1883 said:
On a different subject, I'm appalled at the way the US and UK are abandoning the poor afghan people like this .

What a tragic waste of time , resources and life the last 20 years have been .

Along with Iraq (which both Blair and Bush should pay for ) the way we've destabilised the whole region and the world in the process is nothing short of criminal

Where is the same western justice we applied to the middle east and its leaders
Click to expand...

It does make a mockery of all those that have served there, esp those that have died or had life-changing injuries.

I feel we and the US have been far too eager to get involved in other's disputes since WWII, driven largely by not wanting to let other ideologies like those of Russia and more recently China take hold but also including things like Islamic rule. But once we did get involved to leave in the manner we have is a poor choice and one which again I think we've made purely to follow what the US are doing.

Considering we've supposed to have been training Afghan forces for years, just how bad have we been at it considering how quickly the country has fallen to the Taliban? Either that or support for the Taliban and hard-line Islamic rule is far stronger than we'd like to think.

Looking forward, I think we'll see lots of sanctions and less economic ties with the country but sadly those don't tend to have much of an effect on the people in charge.

I hope we don't see pressure for another war because if so what was the point of the withdrawal? A few months after leaving going back in but almost from the original starting point and a lot more people will be killed.
 

oakey

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,108
Evo1883 said:
It wasn't engineering , it was psychology he did his last 2 years at Warwick uni
Click to expand...
I used to upset Psychology A level students when I called it a soft science.
It's data is too subjective IMO and it's success in treating very unwell patients very patchy at best.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,109
oakey said:
I used to upset Psychology A level students when I called it a soft science.
It's data is too subjective IMO and it's success in treating very unwell patients very patchy at best.
Click to expand...

There’s a massive replicability crisis in psychology. Stuff like “power poses” “implicit bias” “priming” “personality types” leaks into popular culture and business as fact when it’s based on one dodgy study no one can replicate.
 
Reactions: oakey

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,110
oakey said:
I used to upset Psychology A level students when I called it a soft science.
It's data is too subjective IMO and it's success in treating very unwell patients very patchy at best.
Click to expand...

My dad did it because it was something to keep him occupied whilst he stopped drinking alcohol ...true story

He got his degree
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and Sick Boy

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,111
shmmeee said:
This.

That doesn’t mean there isn’t value in social sciences, but a recognition of the evidence base behind theories is needed.

Education is chock full of grifters and woo. The amount of arguments I had about “learning styles” and the lack of evidence for them.
Click to expand...
Teaching right now is full of people peddling their ‘research’ and it’s the new fad.
I’m of a mind that if I have to read some, I’m going to look at the stuff done by the people still delivering in the classroom on a regular basis, rather than the person writing a book on teaching that hasn’t done it for 10 years.
 
Reactions: shmmeee and oakey

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,112
Ian1779 said:
Teaching right now is full of people peddling their ‘research’ and it’s the new fad.
I’m of a mind that if I have to read some, I’m going to look at the stuff done by the people still delivering in the classroom on a regular basis, rather than the person writing a book on teaching that hasn’t done it for 10 years.
Click to expand...

Id rather sit and watch/speak to a teacher of 40 years from the school I’m in than read an “action research” paper by some 20 something on a fast track to SLT.

Having “multimodal semiotic analysis” flashbacks
 
Reactions: Ian1779 and oakey

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,113
stupot07 said:
So the PM is responding to very urgent international crisis of whats happening in Afghanistan by recalling Parliament on Wednesday....yes Wednesday....must be busy buying nappies

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What should we do? Go back to war?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,114
Grendel said:
What should we do? Go back to war?
Click to expand...

Letting any refugees in might be a good start.
 
Reactions: Ian1779, oakey and stupot07

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,115
shmmeee said:
Letting any refugees in might be a good start.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wonder if those countries most involved are going to take them in?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,116
stupot07 said:
So the PM is responding to very urgent international crisis of whats happening in Afghanistan by recalling Parliament on Wednesday....yes Wednesday....must be busy buying nappies

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I was wrong. Hes on holiday. Ffs


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,117
Sick Boy said:
Yeah, I wonder if those countries most involved are going to take them in?
Click to expand...

Not looking great

 
Reactions: stupot07

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,118
Sick Boy said:
Yeah, I wonder if those countries most involved are going to take them in?
Click to expand...

doubt it

Six EU countries warn against open door for Afghan asylum seekers

Six EU member states have warned the bloc's executive against halting deportations of rejected Afghan asylum seekers arriving in Europe despite major advances of Taliban militants in their country.
www.reuters.com
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,119
Grendel said:
doubt it

Six EU countries warn against open door for Afghan asylum seekers

Six EU member states have warned the bloc's executive against halting deportations of rejected Afghan asylum seekers arriving in Europe despite major advances of Taliban militants in their country.
www.reuters.com
Click to expand...
Neither of the 2 countries which were most involved are in the EU.
 
Reactions: COV

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,120
Grendel said:
What should we do? Go back to war?
Click to expand...
Recall for Monday? Last Monday even. It’s not like this problem has crept up overnight.
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,121
Sick Boy said:
Neither of the 2 countries which were most involved are in the EU.
Click to expand...

And another country to add to the list of places ripped to shreds by them
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,122
Sick Boy said:
Neither of the 2 countries which were most involved are in the EU.
Click to expand...

That’s a cop out. The Eu armed forces were involved at the outset and many deployed troops. In fact many increased their presence as part of NATO in higher percentages than the U.K.
 
Reactions: Ccfcisparks and Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,123
Grendel said:
That’s a cop out. The Eu armed forces were involved at the outset and many deployed troops. In fact many increased their presence as part of NATO in higher percentages than the U.K.
Click to expand...
So the USA invades the country and yet somehow it’s deflected onto the EU, wow.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,124
Sick Boy said:
So the USA invades the country and yet somehow it’s deflected onto the EU, wow.
Click to expand...

well no as you said the two main countries - and you included the U.K. - but it’s not true and the initial invasion after 9/11 was a coalition of many countries.
The us has a huge military personnel. I think you’d be surprised how many troops the Eu has deployed over the years
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 15, 2021
  • #6,125
Grendel said:
That’s a cop out. The Eu armed forces were involved at the outset and many deployed troops. In fact many increased their presence as part of NATO in higher percentages than the U.K.
Click to expand...
Wasn’t there only 2 invading forces and anyone that followed was part of a NATO piece keeping force?
 
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