Cause that’s the mantraIt's nothing to do with reform
Why is that the instant go to?
What on earth are you on about?Cause that’s the mantra
Everything is broken
We can’t do anything about it
We are so hard done to
And it’s bollox there’s loads that’s not bad and more if we open our eyes to see it and be grateful for what we have
that’s my new year
health
Family
Job
House
Central heating
Footie team top of the league
Love
Faith
Food
Clothes
it’s easy once you start
LolWhat on earth are you on about?
What’s bollocks in particular?Sorry but that’s bollocks. Labour have not been great but it’s all standard stuff we’re used to.
Lol
Jus annoyed at everyone doing down everything and doing fuck all about making it better
That the Tory government didn’t make this many u-turns and unforced errors in 14 years. I mean the Johnson government was chaos and the Truss government imploded in weeks.What’s bollocks in particular?
Unforced errors, yes I should’ve clarified that. But U-turns, I can’t think of too many high profile ones. I’m sure there will be a few examples but compared to this government - the speed of which Starmer’s government has introduced a policy to then U-turn is staggering. It’s something that’s a major gripe of the Labour-leaning sources I refer too.That the Tory government didn’t make this many u-turns and unforced errors in 14 years. I mean the Johnson government was chaos and the Truss government imploded in weeks.
And there’s not been one bit of hysteria?Unforced errors, yes I should’ve clarified that. But U-turns, I can’t think of too many high profile ones. I’m sure there will be a few examples but compared to this government - the speed of which Starmer’s government has introduced a policy to then U-turn is staggering. It’s something that’s a major gripe of the Labour-leaning sources I refer too.
I’m no friend of the Tory party. Natural ‘ally’ in theory but like the Lib Dems in 2010, this lot have broken the trust.
No, the anger has been building up for years. To some extent, Labour is a victim of circumstances but their policy program hugely unpopular.And there’s not been one bit of hysteria?
Hindsight is a wonderful thingNo, the anger has been building up for years. To some extent, Labour is a victim of circumstances but their policy program hugely unpopular.
Several friends and family who voted Labour and the only person who doesn’t regret is a Labour Member.
No, the anger has been building up for years. To some extent, Labour is a victim of circumstances but their policy program hugely unpopular.
Several friends and family who voted Labour and the only person who doesn’t regret is a Labour Member.
Well, they'll be halfway through come the end of this year and it seems the best thing they could do would be to boot the deeply unpopular Starmer...but replace him with who?If they don’t focus on improving the lives of the many they’re in trouble but it’s still early days to be fair.
Well, they'll be halfway through come the end of this year and it seems the best thing they could do would be to boot the deeply unpopular Starmer...but replace him with who?
This one's a bit too cryptic for me old chap
This one's a bit too cryptic for me old chap
Really? that’s so funnyStrangely I put Wes Streeting into Gif search and this was the first image
this was the first image
I genuinely believe that Starmer and the Labour Party thought they’d swan into government and everything will just get better.We’ve had the last few years of Tory infighting and getting fuck all done albeit challenging times during Covid (inexcusable mess after). Then moved onto a Labour goverment with promises of growth, positivity and no more taxes rises/helping the household squeeze but ultimately they just cracked on with further infighting and ideological stuff….with nothing to improve growth and everyone paying more into the pot
If they don’t focus on improving the lives of the many they’re in trouble but it’s still early days to be fair.
I genuinely believe that Starmer and the Labour Party thought they’d swan into government and everything will just get better.
So did much of the commentariat with the ‘the adults are back in charge’ sentiment that proved to be plainly wrong.
The Tories deserved to be thrashed and so do Labour at the current trajectory. Both parties seem, more or less like “two cheeks of the same arse”. This largely explains why the party politics have fragmented and the subsequent rise of Reform and the Greens from the fringes.
I think there is as wide a gap between Tories and Labour as there’s been for a while (welfare/two child benefit cap, tax, energy, EU etc)
The similarity, which appears to be why they’re getting lumped in together, is that they both appear to be trying to operate within an economic reality that Reform and Greens currently aren’t. Actually, they also appear to be in a similar place on defence.
Both are lacking ‘a plan’ for the country though
What are civil servants and quangos stopping? Which quangos are you referring to?Respectfully disagree. In my view, we’re at a juncture where the Blairite consensus is on its very last legs and Reform and the Greens are the chief beneficiaries of that because they’re trying to articulate an alternative route for the country.
Clement Attlee opposed joining the EC because it would lead to a ‘dictatorship of civil servants’ and looking at how the country has been governed since 1997 in particularly, it does feel like the civil service and quangos are currently holding the whip hand.
Even if you despise him, seeing what Dominic Cummings has to say about how government is actually run is insightful. Even Starmer and his government have come out that they agree with his analysis by and large.
The OBR on the economy, for example. I’m sure we’d both agree that it should be scrapped.What are civil servants and quangos stopping? Which quangos are you referring to?
This is the heart of the problem for me. We've had, what, 45 years of neoliberalism. Its run its course but nobody has a clue what comes next.The similarity, which appears to be why they’re getting lumped in together, is that they both appear to be trying to operate within an economic reality that Reform and Greens currently aren’t.
Both are lacking ‘a plan’ for the country though
Agree on OBRThe OBR on the economy, for example. I’m sure we’d both agree that it should be scrapped.
The same ‘politically impartial’ civil servants that have said they’d resign if Reform were in government.
If you believe Cummings and people like Lord Frost, they froze the civil service out of Brexit negotiations because of briefings against the government itself.
Agree on OBR
Given the wank deal the UK has and the huge uplift in spending resulting from it, I am not sure it demonstrates Cummings' point very well at all.
Send me a link and I'll have a listen.The OBR is one of many unelected quangos that is steering government policy.
Just out of curiosity, have you actually listened to what Cummings has had to say on the topic? One podcast pretty much sums up his views because he rams home the same points.
It’s easy to dismiss him as being politically bias to distance himself from his failures in the Boris government. To some extent, I agree with your comments previously about being ‘bad faith’. Yet, when Keir Starmer and, on the grapevine, McSweeney agreeing with the analysis of Cummings leans me into the camp that perhaps, he’s actually right.
Cummings one pertinent point was that procurement scandals lead to prosecutions in Pitt’s days… thinking back to COVID, how was Matt Hancock not prosecuted for the dodgy contracts he gave out? There’s no real ministerial accountability anymore and Cummings central claim is that the cabinet office has neutered government ministers - ‘fake meetings with fake outcomes’.
Even John Powell, Blair’s chief of staff and author of ‘The New Machiavelli’, has expressed similar criticisms in a more diplomatic way. If all these people who have been at the centre of government say similar things, it’s a good sign there’s fundamental reform needed.
Send me a link and I'll have a listen.
Why is Elmo getting noshed off by a dog?checks out - a lot of Sesame Street content in there...
There's no TU members because TU's have been decimated. Basically every time they try and stand up for their workers the govt makes whatever they're doing illegal. It's harder to go on strike than it is to form a government.The political split has become much easier to see now and in a strange twist has partially reversed.
20/30 years ago, folks in the private sector / employed eg. manual workers, white van man, railway workers etc “working class” = Labour and they made up a large section of society, often in unions. There’s no “Trades Union” members anymore, just teachers, nurses and civil servants - not Unions who stand up to unscrupulous big business owners, people who instead try to get more out of the tax fund provided by working taxpayers. The gulf in standards between private sector pay and conditions and public sector is huge. (Waits for some chump to say “we need to make all jobs have huge rights and benefits”. - clue - employers are stretched beyond as is and we will just see more firms fail).
Contributors v. Non-contributors has tipped. Non-contributors (government staff, schoolchildren, pensioners etc.) is a growing element along with the “I’ve got mentel ‘elf innit” youth. (Look not all, but too many taking the p-**+)
So now we have a huge part of society with a false view of the economic realities.
The civil service is bloated beyond belief. The NHS is hugely inefficient and we plunge ourselves into deeper debt whilst people jump round with “refugees welcome signs” (do we think those are contributor types?)
The split:
Those who get money from the government (civil servants, NHS, unemployed)
Those who get money from private enterprise.
Latter is shrinking and fed up with non-contributors who often spout nonsense and vote left.
The UK didn't get the deal that Cummings wanted. The civil service tried to undermine the Brexit deal at every turn.Agree on OBR
Given the wank deal the UK has and the huge uplift in spending resulting from it, I am not sure it demonstrates Cummings' point very well at all.
Said the civil servant who's Mrs heads up a Quango.What are civil servants and quangos stopping? Which quangos are you referring to?
Unforced errors, yes I should’ve clarified that. But U-turns, I can’t think of too many high profile ones. I’m sure there will be a few examples but compared to this government - the speed of which Starmer’s government has introduced a policy to then U-turn is staggering. It’s something that’s a major gripe of the Labour-leaning sources I refer too.
I’m no friend of the Tory party. Natural ‘ally’ in theory but like the Lib Dems in 2010, this lot have broken the trust.
I assume by ‘reform’ you mean sacking loads of people. Have the courage to at least say that.The OBR is one of many unelected quangos that is steering government policy.
Just out of curiosity, have you actually listened to what Cummings has had to say on the topic? One podcast pretty much sums up his views because he rams home the same points.
It’s easy to dismiss him as being politically bias to distance himself from his failures in the Boris government. To some extent, I agree with your comments previously about being ‘bad faith’. Yet, when Keir Starmer and, on the grapevine, McSweeney agreeing with the analysis of Cummings leans me into the camp that perhaps, he’s actually right.
Cummings one pertinent point was that procurement scandals lead to prosecutions in Pitt’s days… thinking back to COVID, how was Matt Hancock not prosecuted for the dodgy contracts he gave out? There’s no real ministerial accountability anymore and Cummings central claim is that the cabinet office has neutered government ministers - ‘fake meetings with fake outcomes’.
Even John Powell, Blair’s chief of staff and author of ‘The New Machiavelli’, has expressed similar criticisms in a more diplomatic way. If all these people who have been at the centre of government say similar things, it’s a good sign there’s fundamental reform needed.
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