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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (21 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 4:26 PM
  • #59,956
The US will indeed ensure a transfer once they have extracted everything they want from the country.

Trump couldn’t give a fuck about the Venezuelan’s that have ‘been denied democracy’

Stick the c**t in The Hague - next to Bush, Blair and Netanyahu.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, wingy, fernandopartridge and 2 others

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 4:29 PM
  • #59,957
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Iraq and Venezuela are two completely different societies.

In any case, the Venezuelan people rejected Maduro at the ballot box twice, they were thwarted and had to watch the Chinese ‘pillage their natural resources’.

To be honest, Maduro should’ve been ousted in Trump’s first presidency. At least the 2024 election was a complete sham and showed just how tyrannical Maduro was - at one point the vote totals showed 127% of votes cast.



You and Pete not interacting with the point about Chinese ‘imperialism’ / ‘neocolonialism’ is quite insightful.

I know which side my bread is buttered and it’ll always be the USA/EU/UK > Russia/China/Iran. That doesn’t mean they’re beyond reproach, mind you.
Click to expand...
I agree
I’m happy to call out all imperial and colonial bullying that Russia and China have been involved in I just won’t pull my punches from USA just cause they’re a friend
 
Reactions: duffer
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 4:54 PM
  • #59,958
Mucca Mad Boys said:
The true target of the Venezuelan intervention is China. Outside of Russia and Central Asia, it’s China’s main provider of oil.
Click to expand...

Venezuela accounts for about 4% of China’s oil imports.

The main target was lining Trump’s and his backers pockets. That’s it.

Mucca Mad Boys said:
It’s not because you were talking as if Venezuelan oil was sovereign and it’s not.
Click to expand...

All natural resources belong to the sovereign state in which they are located.
 
Reactions: rondog1973, Sick Boy, wingy and 2 others

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 4:57 PM
  • #59,959
Sky Blue Pete said:
I agree
I’m happy to call out all imperial and colonial bullying that Russia and China have been involved in I just won’t pull my punches from USA just cause they’re a friend
Click to expand...
Trump does no wrong in his view. And if he ever does something bad, it’s because he was badly advised or someone else is ‘controlling’ him.

The West has been paralysed by this personality cult of one of the world’s greatest grifters. To Putin and Xi he’s the gift that keeps on giving.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, Sky Blue Pete and djr8369

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 6:38 PM
  • #59,960
PVA said:
Venezuela accounts for about 4% of China’s oil imports.

The main target was lining Trump’s and his backers pockets. That’s it.



All natural resources belong to the sovereign state in which they are located.
Click to expand...
That’s obviously the case, the point about it not being sovereign is that the Chinese are doing exactly what you accuse the US of trying to do.

The number is small today, that’s correct. Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world and one of the reasons they’re not exporting as much as they should is because the infrastructure is shot from years of US sanctions.

Either way, it’s pretty obvious that Venezuela is a key strategic geopolitical country for both China and the USA. This has been the case for close to a decade and any US President was probably going to take action against the regime. It’s been a US foreign policy objective since Chavez came to power.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 6:41 PM
  • #59,961
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Of course you’d say that… The people of Venezuela v much disagree with you even if US foreign policy was

You’re seemingly totally ignorant to the fact China was propping up the regime with ‘oil for loans’ deals and bringing its own companies to invest in Venezuelan oil infrastructure. Itself stealing oil wealth and doing its own “naked bully boy imperialism” as Rondog put it.

If you were aware of this, sure you’d surely have a more nuanced viewpoint. Then again, there’s plenty of posters on here and globally who’d have bad things about anything Trump does or say.
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I generally agree with that post.

China certainly spreads it's influence in a far more subtle way than the USA.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 7:28 PM
  • #59,962
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Copy and paste for most major powers through history. Ironically, the whole ‘rule based international order’ was a US construction and backed up because it was the global hegemon.

Now China and Russia flex their own muscles in the face of ‘international law’ the whole construct is dying if it isn’t already dead.
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Well yeah but this is people’s frustration with Trump. The US backed the post WW2 system with their military and in return got lots of stable trading partners. The construct had given us decades of relative peace and prosperity and is being dismantled by morons.

The worst thing is the Russians have clearly nurtured the situation to their own ends, and it’s mostly out there in the open in published works and social media interference, yet people have been turned on their fellow countrymen and are so angry they can’t see the obvious and cheer on the absurd.

To add salt to the wound we then have people like yourself saying things like “well actually there’s a geopolitical element to it”. Well no shit but most us prefer a construct that means our children will get to live in an era of peace rather than a construct which sees the major powers fight for the biggest share of resources.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and wingy

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 7:41 PM
  • #59,963
djr8369 said:
Well yeah but this is people’s frustration with Trump. The US backed the post WW2 system with their military and in return got lots of stable trading partners. The construct had given us decades of relative peace and prosperity and is being dismantled by morons.

The worst thing is the Russians have clearly nurtured the situation to their own ends, and it’s mostly out there in the open in published works and social media interference, yet people have been turned on their fellow countrymen and are so angry they can’t see the obvious and cheer on the absurd.

To add salt to the wound we then have people like yourself saying things like “well actually there’s a geopolitical element to it”. Well no shit but most us prefer a construct that means our children will get to live in an era of peace rather than a construct which sees the major powers fight for the biggest share of resources.
Click to expand...
Russia conducted its operations between both Trump administrations… Trump has nothing to do with the likes of Russia and China aggressively undermining the international law and the ‘rule based order’.

Even during the Obama administration, the US was criticised for drone strike operations and the Bin Laden assassination also criticised for violating international law.

This ‘rule based order’ was always a construction and could only be sustained if the US was a sole hegemon. Even Russia protested furiously at NATO intervention in Yugoslavia and the recognition of Kosovo. In practice, because the UN Security Council comprises the UK, France, USA, China and Russia… there will rarely ever be a “legal” war because all 5 permanent members can exercise a veto. Lo and behold, it’s Russia and the US who have vetoed the most resolutions.

Major powers will almost always act in the own self-serving interests.
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 7:46 PM
  • #59,964
Captain Dart said:
I generally agree with that post.

China certainly spreads it's influence in a far more subtle way than the USA.
Click to expand...
It's a kick in the balls for the global dominance ambitions of the Chinese Communist Party.

On that front alone it's a win not just for the US but for the West.
 
Reactions: CovValleyBoy, fernandopartridge and Mucca Mad Boys
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 7:46 PM
  • #59,965
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Russia conducted its operations between both Trump administrations… Trump has nothing to do with the likes of Russia and China aggressively undermining the international law and the ‘rule based order’.

Even during the Obama administration, the US was criticised for drone strike operations and the Bin Laden assassination also criticised for violating international law.

This ‘rule based order’ was always a construction and could only be sustained if the US was a sole hegemon. Even Russia protested furiously at NATO intervention in Yugoslavia and the recognition of Kosovo. In practice, because the UN Security Council comprises the UK, France, USA, China and Russia… there will rarely ever be a “legal” war because all 5 permanent members can exercise a veto. Lo and behold, it’s Russia and the US who have vetoed the most resolutions.

Major powers will almost always act in the own self-serving interests.
Click to expand...
You don’t seem to have understood my post at all.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 7:58 PM
  • #59,966
djr8369 said:
You don’t seem to have understood my post at all.
Click to expand...
No, I haven’t at all. The post was there to demonstrate that this construct was always a sham.

During the Cold War, the official policy was ‘peace through strength’ and both main adversaries were too strong for a war to be worthwhile.

The same is true today and one of the main reasons Russia declared war on Ukraine (in my view) is because the Biden administration was weak on foreign policy.

There’s a reason the phrase "If you want peace, prepare for war" exists.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 8:04 PM
  • #59,967
Mucca Mad Boys said:
That’s obviously the case, the point about it not being sovereign is that the Chinese are doing exactly what you accuse the US of trying to do.
Click to expand...

Unless the Chinese fly in, bomb the place and kidnap the president then what they're doing is absolutely nothing like what the US are trying to do
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 8:05 PM
  • #59,968
Mucca Mad Boys said:
No, I haven’t at all. The post was there to demonstrate that this construct was always a sham.

During the Cold War, the official policy was ‘peace through strength’ and both main adversaries were too strong for a war to be worthwhile.

The same is true today and one of the main reasons Russia declared war on Ukraine (in my view) is because the Biden administration was weak on foreign policy.

There’s a reason the phrase "If you want peace, prepare for war" exists.
Click to expand...
It worked pretty well for a good while for a sham.

Of course it wasn't the ideal and countries tested the limits an were rightly criticised for it, as the US is being now.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 8:16 PM
  • #59,969
djr8369 said:
It worked pretty well for a good while for a sham.

Of course it wasn't the ideal and countries tested the limits a were rightly criticised for it, as the US is being now.
Click to expand...
Did it? What examples would say demonstrates this. Most major interventions post-WW2 would have denounced by the other side. Not much has changed post-Cold War either.

PVA said:
Unless the Chinese fly in, bomb the place and kidnap the president then what they're doing is absolutely nothing like what the US are trying to do
Click to expand...
No, they just prop dictatorships across the world.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Monday at 8:30 PM
  • #59,970
SIR ERNIE said:
It's a kick in the balls for the global dominance ambitions of the Chinese Communist Party.

On that front alone it's a win not just for the US but for the West.
Click to expand...
Oh yes the world being even further subservient to the benefit of a few US conglomerates is really to everybody's benefit
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, mmttww, Brighton Sky Blue and 5 others

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 7:02 AM
  • #59,971
Back to just telling outright lies now.

 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 7:59 AM
  • #59,972
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Back to just telling outright lies now.

Click to expand...
Is he really that out of touch with reality? They have btw only frozen regulated fares. Unregulated fares will still go up and probably by a higher %.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 8:01 AM
  • #59,973
fernandopartridge said:
Is he really that out of touch with reality? They have btw only frozen regulated fares. Unregulated fares will still go up and probably by a higher %.
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He’s said every 9 month to 4 year old will get free childcare. That’s just a lie.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 8:51 AM
  • #59,974
Brighton Sky Blue said:
He’s said every 9 month to 4 year old will get free childcare. That’s just a lie.
Click to expand...
*30 hours per week
*Term time only
*Rates paid to nurseries do not cover their costs so they have to charge for food and consumables
*It was legislated for by the Tories in any case
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 9:00 AM
  • #59,975
fernandopartridge said:
*30 hours per week
*Term time only
*Rates paid to nurseries do not cover their costs so they have to charge for food and consumables
*It was legislated for by the Tories in any case
Click to expand...
*Not free if one parent is in work and the other is retraining
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 9:51 AM
  • #59,976
It was an SDP policy about 8 years ago which then got put in motion by the Conservatives. Starmer should stick to locking people up for social media posts and freeing dangerous prisoners and importing hate posters.

Some on here will fail to see just how awful he is. The amount of lies and incompetence is stunning.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Tuesday at 9:54 AM
  • #59,977
The Philosopher said:
Some on here will fail to see just how awful he is. The amount of lies and incompetence is stunning.
Click to expand...
He has very little support on here.
 
Reactions: oscillatewildly and mmttww

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 10:02 AM
  • #59,978
The Philosopher said:
It was an SDP policy about 8 years ago which then got put in motion by the Conservatives. Starmer should stick to locking people up for social media posts and freeing dangerous prisoners and importing hate posters.

Some on here will fail to see just how awful he is. The amount of lies and incompetence is stunning.
Click to expand...
Childcare should be universal for all, up to two children anyway. He’s lied about making it more accessible for a long time now.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 11:39 AM
  • #59,979
Sick Boy said:
He has very little support on here.
Click to expand...
I don't know why there's people on here who post like Starmer is loved in this thread
 
Reactions: rondog1973, Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Captain Dart and 1 other person

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 2:02 PM
  • #59,980
Brighton Sky Blue said:
He’s said every 9 month to 4 year old will get free childcare. That’s just a lie.
Click to expand...
How many times do I need to say this you (or words meaning pretty much the same) can't believe anything a politician says or whatever party.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 2:21 PM
  • #59,981
fernandopartridge said:
*Rates paid to nurseries do not cover their costs so they have to charge for food and consumables
Click to expand...
Interesting thread here.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 3:26 PM
  • #59,982
Captain Dart said:
How many times do I need to say this you (or words meaning pretty much the same) can't believe anything a politician says or whatever party.
Click to expand...
Better have anarchy then, a conspiracy theorist’s dream
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 4:07 PM
  • #59,983
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Better have anarchy then, a conspiracy theorist’s dream
Click to expand...
Broken record much.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 4:08 PM
  • #59,984
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Childcare should be universal for all, up to two children anyway. He’s lied about making it more accessible for a long time now.
Click to expand...

This issue only bothers you as you personally would benefit from it
 
Reactions: SBT, Ccfcisparks and Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Tuesday at 4:23 PM
  • #59,985
Grendel said:
This issue only bothers you as you personally would benefit from it
Click to expand...
Supported it as a policy for years to increase the birthrate but yes keep offering nothing to the discussion.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 9:58 AM
  • #59,986
Grendel said:
This issue only bothers you as you personally would benefit from it
Click to expand...
For shame!
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 10:02 AM
  • #59,987
SBT said:
For shame!
Click to expand...
Noted for his future comments on policy that impacts on SMEs
 
Reactions: PVA

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 2:16 PM
  • #59,988
Turns out Reeves’ second budget has caused more disinvestment in the UK than Brexit.

2025 - £6.71bn taken out of global stock markets versus:
2016 - £3.34bn

Kind of ironic given the pretext for budget changes was… Brexit.

Unfortunately for Labour, this isn’t the year we’ll turn a corner. Terrible chancellor, terrible government. Get in the bin!
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 2:20 PM
  • #59,989
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Turns out Reeves’ second budget has caused more disinvestment in the UK than Brexit.

2025 - £6.71bn taken out of global stock markets versus:
2016 - £3.34bn

Kind of ironic given the pretext for budget changes was… Brexit.

Unfortunately for Labour, this isn’t the year we’ll turn a corner. Terrible chancellor, terrible government. Get in the bin!
Click to expand...
Yes I’m sure the people you plan on voting for will turn the country around in no time.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 2:27 PM
  • #59,990
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Yes I’m sure the people you plan on voting for will turn the country around in no time.
Click to expand...
With respect, probably take lectures on economic management from potential Green voters.

Anyone who listens to Zach Polanski or anyone on the Labour Left and believes the plans are credible is seriously misguided.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart
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