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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (37 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Deleted member 4439

Guest
  • Aug 10, 2021
  • #5,916
shmmeee said:
Typical hands off delaying tactic.

By far the biggest emissions in the U.K. in 2019 (not as you’ve posted projections for the whole world in 2014) are transport, energy, business and residential in that order. Agriculture is fifth largest at 10% of emissions and only half of that is methane emissions from cattle.

This isn’t a debate. We know what to do: decarbonise transport, which requires infrastructure investment and subsidies (govt action), decarbonise energy (govt action), reduce heating needs in business and residential properties (needs subsidies - govt action), decarbonise industry (also give regulations and subsidies).

Meat eating, recycling and rinsing plates before dishwashing is the new climate denial. Government just needs to pull their finger out their arse and do what they’ve been avoiding for decades.
Click to expand...
shmmeee said:
Typical hands off delaying tactic.

By far the biggest emissions in the U.K. in 2019 (not as you’ve posted projections for the whole world in 2014) are transport, energy, business and residential in that order. Agriculture is fifth largest at 10% of emissions and only half of that is methane emissions from cattle.

This isn’t a debate. We know what to do: decarbonise transport, which requires infrastructure investment and subsidies (govt action), decarbonise energy (govt action), reduce heating needs in business and residential properties (needs subsidies - govt action), decarbonise industry (also give regulations and subsidies).

Meat eating, recycling and rinsing plates before dishwashing is the new climate denial. Government just needs to pull their finger out their arse and do what they’ve been avoiding for decades.
Click to expand...

The figures you are quoting are UK production emissions, not UK consumption emissions. Each new electrical item, each new car, each new gadget from Amazon and sizable percentage of our meat and dairy comes from abroad, and result in emissions. But I'm sympathetic to your argument.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 10, 2021
  • #5,917
dubed said:
The figures you are quoting are UK production emissions, not UK consumption emissions. Each new electrical item, each new car, each new gadget from Amazon and sizable percentage of our meat and dairy comes from abroad, and result in emissions. But I'm sympathetic to your argument.
Click to expand...

Yes and we need to pressure those countries too. Which is a damn sight easier when our own house is in order.

It’s always excuses why we can’t do simple stuff ourselves and every other country is making the same excuses because we aren’t doing it. We are responsible for a huge amount of historic emissions, what with us kicking off the industrial revolution if you want to point fingers, but finger pointing is a pointless exercise.

Beaides, even if you forget the climate, why shouldn’t we have cleaner air, water, cheaper to heat homes, cheaper electricity in the long run, more independence from Russia? Unless you’re heavily invested in oil stocks I really don’t see why you’d complain.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 10, 2021
  • #5,918
shmmeee said:
Yes and we need to pressure those countries too. Which is a damn sight easier when our own house is in order.

It’s always excuses why we can’t do simple stuff ourselves and every other country is making the same excuses because we aren’t doing it. We are responsible for a huge amount of historic emissions, what with us kicking off the industrial revolution if you want to point fingers, but finger pointing is a pointless exercise.

Beaides, even if you forget the climate, why shouldn’t we have cleaner air, water, cheaper to heat homes, cheaper electricity in the long run, more independence from Russia? Unless you’re heavily invested in oil stocks I really don’t see why you’d complain.
Click to expand...

I think we're too late. China have said they're omissions won't start to come down until after 2030 and India don't have a plan in.place to reduce theirs.
I don't think they're going to respond to pressure from anyone.b

Two billionaires with the resources and influence to affect change decided to blast off ⁹into space instead.

Biden seems serious but he can't do it on his own. I'm not hopeful.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 10, 2021
  • #5,919
clint van damme said:
I think we're too late. China have said they're omissions won't start to come down until after 2030 and India don't have a plan in.place to reduce theirs.
I don't think they're going to respond to pressure from anyone.b

Two billionaires with the resources and influence to affect change decided to blast off ⁹into space instead.

Biden seems serious but he can't do it on his own. I'm not hopeful.
Click to expand...
Even then to some degree the focus on China and India is something of a distraction. Carbon footprint per capita the US is the biggest polluter in the world. That’s not to say China and India don’t have issues that need addressing but when it comes to individual responsibility no population can do more than the the population of the USA.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 4439

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 10, 2021
  • #5,920
skybluetony176 said:
Even then to some degree the focus on China and India is something of a distraction. Carbon footprint per capita the US is the biggest polluter in the world. That’s not to say China and India don’t have issues that need addressing but when it comes to individual responsibility no population can do more than the the population of the USA.
Click to expand...

I thought China was now the biggest polluter?

Even if it is the US it does seem that Biden is taking it seriously, though it could be all smoke and mirrors, I haven't read into it too deeply.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 10, 2021
  • #5,921
clint van damme said:
I thought China was now the biggest polluter?

Even if it is the US it does seem that Biden is taking it seriously, though it could be all smoke and mirrors, I haven't read into it too deeply.
Click to expand...
Per country yes, per capita no.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve and clint van damme
D

Deleted member 4439

Guest
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,922

Regenerative farming shift could reduce UK climate emissions, say experts

Organic farming methods, which use fewer pesticides and store more carbon in soil, are becoming more popular
www.theguardian.com

Some surprising figures quoted on agriculture emissions. Not sure where these have come from, though it might be taking into account the fact that methane has a much greater emissions 'effect' than Co2 (albeit more quickly reversible).
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,923
skybluetony176 said:
Per country yes, per capita no.
Click to expand...
On the news last night they were also talking about historical pollution too. Yet again the US leads the way. No one has polluted the world over the last 100 years more than the US and obviously this is an historical problem, it’s not just suddenly arrived in our lap. Again this doesn’t mean that China and India doesn’t have issues that need addressing but to just point the finger at the current biggest polluters isn’t addressing the whole issue.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,924
Meanwhile. The Secretary of State for education
Redirect Notice
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,925
skybluetony176 said:
On the news last night they were also talking about historical pollution too. Yet again the US leads the way. No one has polluted the world over the last 100 years more than the US and obviously this is an historical problem, it’s not just suddenly arrived in our lap. Again this doesn’t mean that China and India doesn’t have issues that need addressing but to just point the finger at the current biggest polluters isn’t addressing the whole issue.
Click to expand...

To be fair if China get their artificial sun to work they could save the planet

...or by (potentially creating and) releasing any more deadly viruses into the wider world and causing millions of deaths to reduce global population...

Would prefer option 1

Ps agree though, US needs to lead the way on this, hopefully Biden will be able to but he’ll be up against it over there
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,926
skybluetony176 said:
Meanwhile. The Secretary of State for education
Redirect Notice
Click to expand...

I’d guess at least a couple of Ds
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,927
CCFCSteve said:
I’d guess at least a couple of Ds
Click to expand...
That much?
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and CCFCSteve
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,928
I don't know what he's ashamed about anyway. Bad A levels don't automatically make you a moron and incompetent.

After all, if he had three As he wouldn't suddenly be a genius in his current role...
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,929
Thought this was interesting, especially to hear the old alt-right “STEM over humanities” argument from the left essentially.

 
Reactions: Deleted member 4439 and CCFCSteve
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,930
shmmeee said:
Thought this was interesting, especially to hear the old alt-right “STEM over humanities” argument from the left essentially.

Click to expand...
Cant remember if I posted the other day (meant to) but if I was an 18 year old today I’d almost certain do an apprenticeship rather than a generic Uni course. I can understand if someone needs a certain course for a career ie medicine etc but there’s so much cash to be earned from getting a decent trade these days, or money saved by joining schemes run by employers rather than Uni

I’m saying that as someone who loved my time at Uni and have friends from there for life but that was before tuition fees, let alone this talk about more online teaching, which will take away some of the ‘Uni experience’
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,931
CCFCSteve said:
Cant remember if I posted the other day (meant to) but if I was an 18 year old today I’d almost certain do an apprenticeship rather than a generic Uni course. I can understand if someone needs a certain course for a career ie medicine etc but there’s so much cash to be earned from getting a decent trade these days, or money saved by joining schemes run by employers rather than Uni

I’m saying that as someone who loved my time at Uni and have friends from there for life but that was before tuition fees, let alone this talk about more online teaching, which will take away some of the ‘Uni experience’
Click to expand...
Depends what you're after of course. Sometimes, careers just don't earn cash...

Online also depends in what context. Not sure having my lectures online would have made any difference! Although the seminars would have been a different kettle of fish.

Said it many times - there's nothing wrong whatsoever in a non career specific degree. In the recent past, IT and finance professionals were hired from English and History, as they had the analytic skills required. The problem has been since commercialising universities, it's devalued a number of degrees, as universities hoover people up for the cash, rather than anything else.

There needs a space where someone's chosen route isn't devalued in comparison to others, whatever it is, a route where work is valued whatever it is, and skills are valued whatever they are, without intellectual snobbery or, reverse snobbery too for that matter. I appreciate human nature will always take over there to some extent, but institutionally we need to start valuing people, rather than titles, better.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,932
CCFCSteve said:
Cant remember if I posted the other day (meant to) but if I was an 18 year old today I’d almost certain do an apprenticeship rather than a generic Uni course. I can understand if someone needs a certain course for a career ie medicine etc but there’s so much cash to be earned from getting a decent trade these days, or money saved by joining schemes run by employers rather than Uni

I’m saying that as someone who loved my time at Uni and have friends from there for life but that was before tuition fees, let alone this talk about more online teaching, which will take away some of the ‘Uni experience’
Click to expand...

I did an apprenticeship, then I did a degree. The degree experience was definitely great, if we could find a way to give that to apprentices (trade schools? Student dorms for apprentices?) and it also opened up my options in my field (computing). But most degrees as the article says are worthless. Already having this convo with my 11 year old, Uni is great, but if you’re not going into a technical field you’re probably better getting experience.

Also my apprenticeship (Marconi) was a genuinely great apprenticeship with a good mix of learning and experience and a consistent group that got on well. Today’s apprenticeships seem to be little more than cheap labour.
 
Reactions: RedSalmon
R

RedSalmon

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,933
shmmeee said:
I did an apprenticeship, then I did a degree. The degree experience was definitely great, if we could find a way to give that to apprentices (trade schools? Student dorms for apprentices?) and it also opened up my options in my field (computing). But most degrees as the article says are worthless. Already having this convo with my 11 year old, Uni is great, but if you’re not going into a technical field you’re probably better getting experience.

Also my apprenticeship (Marconi) was a genuinely great apprenticeship with a good mix of learning and experience and a consistent group that got on well. Today’s apprenticeships seem to be little more than cheap labour.
Click to expand...

Think you have really hit the nail on the head, the whole concept of an 'apprenticeship' seems to have been hijacked and the term is now applied to any training scheme that involves young people. Served an engineering apprenticeship at a large company in Coventry and it included an in depth training programme that was structured over four years which was designed to integrate us into the company and give us skills and recognised qualifications that would help us grow and develop as young people.
From what I have seen of apprenticeship schemes today they seem little more than 'tick box' exercises that don't really challenge the apprentice or encourage them to develop. Am speaking now as someone who has had to 'sign off' apprentices when they had completed their 'tasks', most of which seemed so low level in terms of skill requirement it seemed fairly pointless.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 4439, Sky_Blue_Dreamer, CCFCSteve and 3 others

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,934
RedSalmon said:
Think you have really hit the nail on the head, the whole concept of an 'apprenticeship' seems to have been hijacked and the term is now applied to any training scheme that involves young people. Served an engineering apprenticeship at a large company in Coventry and it included an in depth training programme that was structured over four years which was designed to integrate us into the company and give us skills and recognised qualifications that would help us grow and develop as young people.
From what I have seen of apprenticeship schemes today they seem little more than 'tick box' exercises that don't really challenge the apprentice or encourage them to develop. Am speaking now as someone who has had to 'sign off' apprentices when they had completed their 'tasks', most of which seemed so low level in terms of skill requirement it seemed fairly pointless.
Click to expand...

Ive got a couple starting at the end of the month. From management it’s entirely seen as cheap labour for low end tasks they don’t want to pay minimum wage for. They’ve been sold to us by a third party who will “do their training” (a couple of online courses). Genuinely embarrassed and will be trying my best to give them a proper experience. Especially as we aren’t talking about kids here. Ones got a Masters degree!
 
Reactions: RedSalmon and Deleted member 5849
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,935
shmmeee said:
Ive got a couple starting at the end of the month. From management it’s entirely seen as cheap labour for low end tasks they don’t want to pay minimum wage for. They’ve been sold to us by a third party who will “do their training” (a couple of online courses). Genuinely embarrassed and will be trying my best to give them a proper experience. Especially as we aren’t talking about kids here. Ones got a Masters degree!
Click to expand...
What we often don;t do is push people, and that can be... annoying.
 
Reactions: wingy and RedSalmon
R

RedSalmon

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,936
Deleted member 5849 said:
What we often don;t do is push people, and that can be... annoying.
Click to expand...

Utterly agree, the ones I have had to deal with have never been challenged, they have just been given a series of tasks to be competent at and then get signed off. The lack of structured development is shocking and they get into a mindset of learning 'just enough'. At that young age they do need to be challenged as that will help develop their approach throughout their career.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849
R

RedSalmon

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,937
shmmeee said:
Ive got a couple starting at the end of the month. From management it’s entirely seen as cheap labour for low end tasks they don’t want to pay minimum wage for. They’ve been sold to us by a third party who will “do their training” (a couple of online courses). Genuinely embarrassed and will be trying my best to give them a proper experience. Especially as we aren’t talking about kids here. Ones got a Masters degree!
Click to expand...

Very similar situation where I used to work (recently retired......thank god!!!). We had people put on courses that bore no relation to the role they were expected to undertake but were told to carry on because there was no alternative. This is in health care.
Am pretty sure that any organisation with a turn over of 1 million plus has to pay some sort of levy into a training fund that they can only get back if they provide training for young people.............hence the proliferation of 'apprenticeships' for young people.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,938
RedSalmon said:
Utterly agree, the ones I have had to deal with have never been challenged, they have just been given a series of tasks to be competent at and then get signed off. The lack of structured development is shocking and they get into a mindset of learning 'just enough'. At that young age they do need to be challenged as that will help develop their approach throughout their career.
Click to expand...
I've taught at universities, and also seen apprentices come through where I work now, and I'm amazed really. At university, it was very much they're paying their tuition fees, that's what we want them for - which seemed to neglect the fact we had young people who needed nurturing, challenging, helping... and then the apprentices there's very much a culture of 'that'll do'. It also seems slightly pointless that we hire apprentices from time to time, with no long term role for them to potentially go into with us so at that stage, you have to ask why, other than box ticking and cheap labour? That seems to be letting them down really, especially as I struggle to see training!

Both universities and apprenticeships could be great ways to develop people, and that isn't always learning a trade immediately either, but there's a need to actually do some development at some point!
 
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fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,939
CCFCSteve said:
Cant remember if I posted the other day (meant to) but if I was an 18 year old today I’d almost certain do an apprenticeship rather than a generic Uni course. I can understand if someone needs a certain course for a career ie medicine etc but there’s so much cash to be earned from getting a decent trade these days, or money saved by joining schemes run by employers rather than Uni

I’m saying that as someone who loved my time at Uni and have friends from there for life but that was before tuition fees, let alone this talk about more online teaching, which will take away some of the ‘Uni experience’
Click to expand...
What's wrong with education for its own sake?
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,940
fernandopartridge said:
What's wrong with education for its own sake?
Click to expand...

Nothing at all, it’s each to their own. Just saying what I’d do now....if that’s allowed ?! I was borderline between going into work and uni, chose uni as got a grant but didn’t really have an idea of what I’d do after it/with my degree. It served me well and I loved it but ultimately in current times I’d be paying tens of thousands for what would be a punt, when I could probably get the same support and training through an apprenticeship/work programme
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,941
shmmeee said:
Ive got a couple starting at the end of the month. From management it’s entirely seen as cheap labour for low end tasks they don’t want to pay minimum wage for. They’ve been sold to us by a third party who will “do their training” (a couple of online courses). Genuinely embarrassed and will be trying my best to give them a proper experience. Especially as we aren’t talking about kids here. Ones got a Masters degree!
Click to expand...
I had a couple before I finished at my old place. They're now mid twenties and both are excellent at their jobs.

We gave them demanding tasks but I always took the bollocking when they fucked up (not healthcare before you ask), which is all part of learning.

It was nice watching those wet behind the ears 18 year olds blossom into fully functioning members of staff.

The grads always seemed to want everything handed to them on a plate.

Just my experience and purely anecdotal.
 
Reactions: clint van damme and wingy

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,942
CCFCSteve said:
Cant remember if I posted the other day (meant to) but if I was an 18 year old today I’d almost certain do an apprenticeship rather than a generic Uni course. I can understand if someone needs a certain course for a career ie medicine etc but there’s so much cash to be earned from getting a decent trade these days, or money saved by joining schemes run by employers rather than Uni

I’m saying that as someone who loved my time at Uni and have friends from there for life but that was before tuition fees, let alone this talk about more online teaching, which will take away some of the ‘Uni experience’
Click to expand...

Yep. Quite a few people on courses such as mine that looking back wished they'd just tried to get an office junior type entry level job that provided training for professional qualifications instead of uni. They'd have been earning nstead of raking up huge debt and got the qualifications that actual matter in terms of career progression.

So if someone has a particular career in mind IMO they'd do better to focus on what's actually needed to do that - some will require uni quite a few won't.

And level up the way certain careers are perceived against others.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,943
One thing I will say. As a graduate when I decided to retrain I had much wider options available to me than I would have. Much like 5 Cs at GCSE opens doors, so does a 2:1 as a general mark of ability.

Arguably that’s down to employers but good luck changing that mindset.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,944
fernandopartridge said:
What's wrong with education for its own sake?
Click to expand...

Absolutely nothing at all. It just feels like nowadays there are people who have specific careers and goals in mind that would be better served doing things that directly relate to that than a more generic uni course.

Those that are more into the academic side or unsure of what path they want having that option is incredibly useful.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,945
fernandopartridge said:
What's wrong with education for its own sake?
Click to expand...
Terrible idea. Might lead to an educated population who wouldn't vote for the sort of populist Government we have.
 
Reactions: oakey, Ian1779 and JAM See

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,946
Deleted member 9744 said:
Terrible idea. Might lead to an educated population who wouldn't vote for the sort of populist Government we have.
Click to expand...

it was the Blair government of course who wanted 50% to be educated to degree level
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,947
Grendel said:
it was the Blair government of course who wanted 50% to be educated to degree level
Click to expand...

And it was the Tories that want to scrap that aspiration. Not sure what point you’re trying to make.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,948
shmmeee said:
And it was the Tories that want to scrap that aspiration. Not sure what point you’re trying to make.
Click to expand...

theyve hardly scrapped it - it’s an industry all in its own and it seems record exam results as well. Looks like the Tory education policy of enhancing the education of our children has surpassed expectations - record achievement in A level results and 92% going to their first choice uni

Gavin Williamson must be the most successful education minister on record isn’t he?
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,949
skybluetony176 said:
There clearly isn’t a single fix all when it comes to tackling climate change. However when it comes to stopping eating meat and indeed dairy there is the double whammy. Aside from all the methane that vows especially turn out there’s also the issue that two of biggest causes of deforestation is to clear land to grow animal feed and to clear land for grazing. So not only are “we” as meat and dairy eaters responsible for a major cause of global warming “we’re” also responsible for one the destruction of one of our best weapons in fighting global warming.
Click to expand...
I found this interesting with the vision on hydrogen.
They seem to think it's cost effective to produce .
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 11, 2021
  • #5,950
We should be a world leader when it comes to climate change, and we should help lead the way.

The problem will always persist when much larger economies and countries like China don't plan to follow suit ... these bigger countries are key no matter what we try and do ..

We should still try and do our bit though
 
Reactions: bezzer and skybluetony176
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