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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (62 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 6, 2021
  • #5,881
CCFCSteve said:
Not sure how you read that I’ve got ideological reasons why the state can’t do anything when I’ve said that we should do as much as possible ?! I’d hope we can and will lead the way on the global scene but I am also realistic to know that unless there is significant changes elsewhere in the world it will unfortunately make minimal difference (Brexit is irrelevant, we still have soft power influence and can lead by example but nicely shoehorned in )

I’ve also said the individual needs to do as much as possible (what they can afford to do). Our ‘ideologies’ probably aren’t that different, I just probably lean a bit more towards people and businesses taking more personal responsibility than rely on the government to tell me/us what to do. I barely drive now, I pay a premium to offset all my energy usage and I eat a fraction of the meat I use to, however, I also appreciate many aren’t in the same personal or financial position to do some or all of these

Ps I agree on and offshore wind farms should 100% be encouraged. There has been plenty of heating and insulation initiatives over the years though.
Click to expand...

I see your point, but you do say "do as much as possible". The problem is that there is a massive disparity in what people consider is 'as much as possible'. Unfortunately there are plenty of those in power who think that's far less than others do. Sometimes not even because they can't do it but they don't see at their responsibility to do it. In other cases they've actively obstructed doing as much as possible to appease those big businesses/countries heavily invested in things like gas. We've had years of "solar/wind is inefficient" when it's far more efficient that the early days of coal and gas. It gets more efficient with research. That means investment, Instead we've shoved money into fossil fuels because they're more efficient despite any sensible long-term plan would tell you it's a false economy.

An individual can't choose to power their house/car with renewable resources if the industry doesn't generate power using those methods. If things like insulation or solar panels are expensive an individual maybe can't afford them without some form of grant even if they want to have them. Long term that will save money.

But instead we've had years of objections to wind power because they're eyesores, Industries like that and solar have had funding removed whereas things like gas/fracking have been invested in. As has been mentioned grants for insulation and soar panels have been removed.

We're not alone (or nowhere near the worst compared to places like the US/Russia/China)

We're not doing all we can because we make decisions based on the politics, not what needs to be done.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 7, 2021
  • #5,882
Just happened on to this .
Bit of history.

 
Reactions: clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 7, 2021
  • #5,883
wingy said:
Just happened on to this .
Bit of history.

Click to expand...

I love that band. Got a new album out
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 7, 2021
  • #5,884
clint van damme said:
I love that band. Got a new album out
Click to expand...
Yeah will be checking them out myself.
 
Reactions: clint van damme

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,885
Taliban sweeping through Afghanistan... who could have predicted this
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,886
Evo1883 said:
Taliban sweeping through Afghanistan... who could have predicted this
Click to expand...

Poor fuckers. Just been abandoned
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,887
shmmeee said:
Poor fuckers. Just been abandoned
Click to expand...
Pakistan need dealing with too , sorry I'm not a war monger but the taliban problem is made a million times worse because of Pakistani influence , sanction them

And I agree , left them up shit Creek without a paddle
 
Last edited: Aug 9, 2021

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,888
Evo1883 said:
Pakistan need dealing with too , sorry I'm not a war monger but the taliban problem is made a million times worse because of Pakistani influence , sanction them

And I agree , left them up shit Creek without a paddle
Click to expand...

Youve got to hope China can swing their dick at Pakistan, surely they don’t want terrorists on the border.

But yeah we should be telling them to shape up or fuck off as well.
 
Reactions: Evo1883

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,889
This is not good at all.

Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,890
Ian1779 said:
This is not good at all.

Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'
Click to expand...

You could phase out meat eating in a reasonable timescale and that would have a big impact and anyone caring for the environment could refuse to eat it

Eating Less Meat Essential to Curb Climate Change, Says Report - Our World

The livestock industry emits more GHG emissions than transport but fear of consumer backlash is preventing action on meat eating, says a Chatham House report.
ourworld.unu.edu
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,891
Grendel said:
You could phase out meat eating in a reasonable timescale and that would have a big impact and anyone caring for the environment could refuse to eat it

Eating Less Meat Essential to Curb Climate Change, Says Report - Our World

The livestock industry emits more GHG emissions than transport but fear of consumer backlash is preventing action on meat eating, says a Chatham House report.
ourworld.unu.edu
Click to expand...

Typical hands off delaying tactic.

By far the biggest emissions in the U.K. in 2019 (not as you’ve posted projections for the whole world in 2014) are transport, energy, business and residential in that order. Agriculture is fifth largest at 10% of emissions and only half of that is methane emissions from cattle.

This isn’t a debate. We know what to do: decarbonise transport, which requires infrastructure investment and subsidies (govt action), decarbonise energy (govt action), reduce heating needs in business and residential properties (needs subsidies - govt action), decarbonise industry (also give regulations and subsidies).

Meat eating, recycling and rinsing plates before dishwashing is the new climate denial. Government just needs to pull their finger out their arse and do what they’ve been avoiding for decades.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and COV

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,892
shmmeee said:
Typical hands off delaying tactic.

By far the biggest emissions in the U.K. in 2019 (not as you’ve posted projections for the whole world in 2014) are transport, energy, business and residential in that order. Agriculture is fifth largest at 10% of emissions and only half of that is methane emissions from cattle.

This isn’t a debate. We know what to do: decarbonise transport, which requires infrastructure investment and subsidies (govt action), decarbonise energy (govt action), reduce heating needs in business and residential properties (needs subsidies - govt action), decarbonise industry (also give regulations and subsidies).

Meat eating, recycling and rinsing plates before dishwashing is the new climate denial. Government just needs to pull their finger out their arse and do what they’ve been avoiding for decades.
Click to expand...

Deporting 50 people who actually grew up here- instant action. Climate change- every excuse under the sun is trotted out.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,893
shmmeee said:
Typical hands off delaying tactic.

By far the biggest emissions in the U.K. in 2019 (not as you’ve posted projections for the whole world in 2014) are transport, energy, business and residential in that order. Agriculture is fifth largest at 10% of emissions and only half of that is methane emissions from cattle.

This isn’t a debate. We know what to do: decarbonise transport, which requires infrastructure investment and subsidies (govt action), decarbonise energy (govt action), reduce heating needs in business and residential properties (needs subsidies - govt action), decarbonise industry (also give regulations and subsidies).

Meat eating, recycling and rinsing plates before dishwashing is the new climate denial. Government just needs to pull their finger out their arse and do what they’ve been avoiding for decades.
Click to expand...

I knew you'd bite on this you always do. Actually it is a debate - you don't decide the debate

Is eating meat bad for the environment? | FutureLearn

We take a look at how global meat production is bad for the environment. Find out why we eat meat and how it impacts the planet.
www.futurelearn.com
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,894
Grendel said:
I knew you'd bite on this you always do. Actually it is a debate - you don't decide the debate

Is eating meat bad for the environment? | FutureLearn

We take a look at how global meat production is bad for the environment. Find out why we eat meat and how it impacts the planet.
www.futurelearn.com
Click to expand...

is it really ‘biting’ when it’s an important issue that many people are passionate about? Perhaps ‘replying’ would be more accurate
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,895
Grendel said:
I knew you'd bite on this you always do. Actually it is a debate - you don't decide the debate

Is eating meat bad for the environment? | FutureLearn

We take a look at how global meat production is bad for the environment. Find out why we eat meat and how it impacts the planet.
www.futurelearn.com
Click to expand...

It’s not a debate. We’ve had thirty years of debate that’s gone like this:

“decarbonise”

“no it’s not real”

“decarbonise”

“no it’s not humans”

“decarbonise”

“no it’s expensive”

“decarbonise”

“no it’s the Chinese”

“decarbonise”

“no we need to change all of human nature and the entire food economy instead”

Bored now of the silly games. The anti change people like yourself have lost the right to participate in the debate because you have been being twats for a generation. Time to sit down and let the rest of us crack on.
 
Reactions: COV

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,896
COV said:
is it really ‘biting’ when it’s an important issue that many people are passionate about? Perhaps ‘replying’ would be more accurate
Click to expand...

Everything’s a joke to Grendel because if he took something seriously he’d get hurt when he’s inevitably proven wrong.
 
Reactions: COV

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,897
shmmeee said:
It’s not a debate. We’ve had thirty years of debate that’s gone like this:

“decarbonise”

“no it’s not real”

“decarbonise”

“no it’s not humans”

“decarbonise”

“no it’s expensive”

“decarbonise”

“no it’s the Chinese”

“decarbonise”

“no we need to change all of human nature and the entire food economy instead”

Bored now of the silly games. The anti change people like yourself have lost the right to participate in the debate because you have been being twats for a generation. Time to sit down and let the rest of us crack on.
Click to expand...

if there was a ‘round of applause’ emoji I’d use that here
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,898
COV said:
is it really ‘biting’ when it’s an important issue that many people are passionate about? Perhaps ‘replying’ would be more accurate
Click to expand...

No he said "it isn't a debate" - I am amazed his mega brain has enough time on his hands really to grace us with his presence on here -- he must have a top job in a major Global organisation - after all he knows more than every expert on the subject

Eat less meat: UN climate-change report calls for change to human diet

The report on global land use and agriculture comes amid accelerating deforestation in the Amazon.
www.nature.com
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,899
shmmeee said:
Everything’s a joke to Grendel because if he took something seriously he’d get hurt when he’s inevitably proven wrong.
Click to expand...

So the scientific experts are wrong and a bloke with a below average lifestyle knows more - OK
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,900
COV said:
if there was a ‘round of applause’ emoji I’d use that here
Click to expand...

His argument is to buy an electric car - but he can't afford to
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,901
Grendel said:
No he said "it isn't a debate" - I am amazed his mega brain has enough time on his hands really to grace us with his presence on here -- he must have a top job in a major Global organisation - after all he knows more than every expert on the subject

Eat less meat: UN climate-change report calls for change to human diet

The report on global land use and agriculture comes amid accelerating deforestation in the Amazon.
www.nature.com
Click to expand...

your use of heavy sarcasm, sneering and trying to look down at people who don’t agree with you on this doesn’t exactly help drive the debate forward though does it. I’m no scientist but if you’re genuinely trying to say that climate change is not a serious issue then I don’t know what to say really.
 
Reactions: Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,902
COV said:
your use of heavy sarcasm, sneering and trying to look down at people who don’t agree with you on this doesn’t exactly help drive the debate forward though does it. I’m no scientist but if you’re genuinely trying to say that climate change is not a serious issue then I don’t know what to say really.
Click to expand...

Ironic as you are backing someone who says meat eating and deforestation consequences are not an issue we need to talk about - well it seems he controls the debate so refuses to
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,903
Grendel said:
Ironic as you are backing someone who says meat eating and deforestation consequences are not an issue we need to talk about - well it seems he controls the debate so refuses to
Click to expand...

I’m actually just saying that climate change is real, and your approach in setting out to belittle & mock people with a different view to you is weird. But I guess it’s a football forum ultimately so who cares.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,904
shmmeee said:
Typical hands off delaying tactic.

By far the biggest emissions in the U.K. in 2019 (not as you’ve posted projections for the whole world in 2014) are transport, energy, business and residential in that order. Agriculture is fifth largest at 10% of emissions and only half of that is methane emissions from cattle.

This isn’t a debate. We know what to do: decarbonise transport, which requires infrastructure investment and subsidies (govt action), decarbonise energy (govt action), reduce heating needs in business and residential properties (needs subsidies - govt action), decarbonise industry (also give regulations and subsidies).

Meat eating, recycling and rinsing plates before dishwashing is the new climate denial. Government just needs to pull their finger out their arse and do what they’ve been avoiding for decades.
Click to expand...

Just been a report on 5live and they had some professor on and he was basically saying decarbonisation and electric vehicles weren't the way.
He suggested carbon recycling and synthetic fuels.
His line went though but before he could elaborate too much was quite interesting 5hough but let's be honest, we won't do anything meaningful.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,905
COV said:
I’m actually just saying that climate change is real, and your approach in setting out to belittle & mock people with a different view to you is weird. But I guess it’s a football forum ultimately so who cares.
Click to expand...

I have I said it isn’t and how is showing a link to a real issue and something everyone individually can do - reduce or stop meat consumption - not a real point for discussion

It’s him who spits and snarls when this debate enters this area of discussion

you don’t eat meat do you?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,906
clint van damme said:
Just been a report on 5live and they had some professor on and he was basically saying decarbonisation and electric vehicles weren't the way.
He suggested carbon recycling and synthetic fuels.
His line went though but before he could elaborate too much was quite interesting 5hough but let's be honest, we won't do anything meaningful.
Click to expand...

Ill stick with the IPCC and the vast majority of climate scientists if that’s OK. We won’t do fuck all though you’re right. And mostly because the decision making infrastructure for first world countries has been broken for years.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,907
COV said:
I’m actually just saying that climate change is real, and your approach in setting out to belittle & mock people with a different view to you is weird. But I guess it’s a football forum ultimately so who cares.
Click to expand...

also this is something that really triggers him for some reason

Do you want to discuss boring politics?

Do those figures include the fact that agricultural land can't be used every year for growing fruit and veg? Or areas of the world that struggle immensely to grow fruit and veg? Deforestation also happens for produce that takes a higher profit anyway, so if that's not a cow, it'd be something...
www.skybluestalk.co.uk
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,908
Grendel said:
also this is something that really triggers him for some reason

Do you want to discuss boring politics?

Do those figures include the fact that agricultural land can't be used every year for growing fruit and veg? Or areas of the world that struggle immensely to grow fruit and veg? Deforestation also happens for produce that takes a higher profit anyway, so if that's not a cow, it'd be something...
www.skybluestalk.co.uk
Click to expand...

“triggers” “bites”

You’re a fully grown man FFS.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,909
There clearly isn’t a single fix all when it comes to tackling climate change. However when it comes to stopping eating meat and indeed dairy there is the double whammy. Aside from all the methane that vows especially turn out there’s also the issue that two of biggest causes of deforestation is to clear land to grow animal feed and to clear land for grazing. So not only are “we” as meat and dairy eaters responsible for a major cause of global warming “we’re” also responsible for one the destruction of one of our best weapons in fighting global warming.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,910
shmmeee said:
Ill stick with the IPCC and the vast majority of climate scientists if that’s OK. We won’t do fuck all though you’re right. And mostly because the decision making infrastructure for first world countries has been broken for years.
Click to expand...

He wasn't denying climate change, he was saying we can't afford to be pumping carbon into the atmosphere through legacy vehicles and electric vehicle production and generating electricity to run them on.
 
Reactions: Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,911
shmmeee said:
“triggers” “bites”

You’re a fully grown man FFS.
Click to expand...

ironic
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,912
SFO.

"Greensill: David Cameron 'made $10m' before company’s collapse - BBC News" Cameron 'made $10m' from Greensill before collapse - BBC News
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,913

Haha! Fucking mentalists
 
Reactions: Deleted member 9744 and wingy

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,914
clint van damme said:

Haha! Fucking mentalists
Click to expand...

Lizardman’s Constant Is 4%

Beware of Phantom Lizardmen I have only done a little bit of social science research, but it was enough to make me hate people. One study I helped with analyzed whether people from different countr…
slatestarcodex.com
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 9, 2021
  • #5,915
clint van damme said:

Haha! Fucking mentalists
Click to expand...
These are now the kids that asked if we could go to the Sun, and later enquired if it would make a difference if we went at night.
 
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