Do you want to discuss boring politics? (34 Viewers)

[Grendel]

as much as I like a lot of her policy positions, and from a lot of accounts she did a better job than most at the nuts and bolts of being an MP, she's made herself look like a knob since the Your Party stuff started.

What policy positions do you actually like?

 

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[mmttww]

What policy positions do you actually like?

Green New Deal was the big one. Don't remember all the rest but I looked at her voting record when she was the candidate for the first time and on balance, she looked the best of the bunch.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I see Sultana in the HoC yesterday raising why Soldier F had higher than normal funding for his defence of the Bloody Sunday trial. You'd think he'd been awarded damages all he did was clear his name. It appears she's questioning the legitimacy of it rather than be satisfied with justice. What she really wanted was a conviction. IRA sympathiser just like Corbyn to put with her Palestine Action badge. Assume she's forgotten about the IRA bomb on the city she's supposed to represent, I'm sure the constituents are delighted.

Soldiers shot dead British Citizens in Britain, it's right to seek justice for it. It's fuck all to do with the IRA.

 

[PVA]

Let's put them in charge of the whole country, what could possibly go wrong

Nigel Farage’s Reform UK has suspended another member of its “flagship” county council in Kent as it held its first full meeting since the party’s councillors were thrown into crisis by a leaked meeting revealing bitter internal tensions.

The departure of Isabella Kemp, who had also worked as a data protection officer at Reform’s HQ, means that the party has lost nine of the 57 councillors elected during the local elections in May.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Let's put them in charge of the whole country, what could possibly go wrong

I believe this is the same council that can't put up Christmas lights because of all the England flags left hanging up on street posts

 

[mmttww]

Bloke in a weird hat handing out leaflets for Reform on Earlsdon high street today. Earlsdon's gone! CV5 is finished!

 

[Grendel]

Let's put them in charge of the whole country, what could possibly go wrong

Dunno perhaps some sex offenders could walk free from jail. Or they could promise to not raise taxes ON OUR watch and then do it.

It’s interesting Reeves seems also to be going against the green agenda by taxing electric cars for mileage consumption in the budget. Tighten your Tesla belt Tarquin

I wouldn’t go down the council route for competency if I were you as there are many examples of blatant corruption, incompetence and criminality amongst Labour councillors yet you keep brown nosing their pathetic attempts at running the country.

 

[SBT]

I believe this is the same council that can't put up Christmas lights because of all the England flags left hanging up on street posts

Kent’s gone

 

[PVA]

Dunno perhaps some sex offenders could walk free from jail. Or they could promise to not raise taxes ON OUR watch and then do it.

It’s interesting Reeves seems also to be going against the green agenda by taxing electric cars for mileage consumption in the budget. Tighten your Tesla belt Tarquin

I wouldn’t go down the council route for competency if I were you as there are many examples of blatant corruption, incompetence and criminality amongst Labour councillors yet you keep brown nosing their pathetic attempts at running the country.

Hahaha state of this. Bore off you weirdo.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Hahaha state of this. Bore off you weirdo.

Local councils are full of incompetency and corruption, made up of failed MPs. Irrespective of party allegiance. Our MPs are low grade, our councillors cut from the same cloth.

If we’re going off local councils, the biggest shambles is Birmingham Council who is completely bankrupt… Of course you didn’t consider that when voting Labour, which undermines your point.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Local councils are bunch of failed MPs a full of incompetency and corruption, irrespective of party allegiance. Our MPs are low grade, our councillors cut from the same cloth.

If we’re going off local councils, the biggest shambles is Birmingham Council who is completely bankrupt… Of course you didn’t consider that when voting Labour, which undermines your point.

Don’t get me started about Birmingham council, absolute shitshow.

Then everyone asked where all the monies going and services are shit….well, 25-30% of council tax revenue goes on council employee pensions (only slightly higher than a lot of other councils)

Nothing to see here though. All totally sustainable

 

[PVA]

Local councils are full of incompetency and corruption, made up of failed MPs. Irrespective of party allegiance. Our MPs are low grade, our councillors cut from the same cloth.

If we’re going off local councils, the biggest shambles is Birmingham Council who is completely bankrupt… Of course you didn’t consider that when voting Labour, which undermines your point.

Of course they are, I haven't said otherwise.

I just expect Reform to be more incompetent than anyone else, and they are proving me right so far.

 

[Grendel]

Of course they are, I haven't said otherwise.

I just expect Reform to be more incompetent than anyone else, and they are proving me right so far.

How many of their councils are bankrupt?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Local councils are full of incompetency and corruption, made up of failed MPs. Irrespective of party allegiance. Our MPs are low grade, our councillors cut from the same cloth.

If we’re going off local councils, the biggest shambles is Birmingham Council who is completely bankrupt… Of course you didn’t consider that when voting Labour, which undermines your point.

The first council to file a section 114 notice (i.e. the council version of bankruptcy) was Northamptonshire County Council in 2018. It had been under the control of the Conservative party since 2005.

Councils, unlike a private business, are required to deliver statutory services through their settlement by central government. Councils had a real terms cut in income of 30% following 2010 yet their statutory obligations remained. It's no surprise what has happened.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Don’t get me started about Birmingham council, absolute shitshow.

Then everyone asked where all the monies going and services are shit….well, 25-30% of council tax revenue goes on council employee pensions (only slightly higher than a lot of other councils)

Nothing to see here though. All totally sustainable

How would you suggest they operate their employee pensions then Steve?

 

[CCFCSteve]

The first council to file a section 114 notice (i.e. the council version of bankruptcy) was Northamptonshire County Council in 2018. It had been under the control of the Conservative party since 2005.

Councils, unlike a private business, are required to deliver statutory services through their settlement by central government. Councils had a real terms cut in income of 30% following 2010 yet their statutory obligations remained. It's no surprise what has happened.

Been total mismanagement in Birmingham. From ignoring and not addressing equal pay dispute for years, taking on commonwealth games, mismanagement of pension scheme. Should never have gone bust. They’re a joke

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Of course they are, I haven't said otherwise.

I just expect Reform to be more incompetent than anyone else, and they are proving me right so far.

You can’t be serious? How many Labour run councils are bankrupt, or nearing bankruptcy?

On the national level, Labour nicked one of Reform’s dumbest policy ideas (increasing NI on foreign workers) and applied it to the whole workforce.

On Reform as a party, what are people’s reasonable expectations? They were barely a party 18 months ago and now they’re a part of government for a few councils.

I certainly have concerns about the calibre of Reform’s talent but looking at Labour’s cabinet, there’s no one who’s really held any senior positions in the private sector. The one entrepreneur advising them has quit. Low calibre talent across the board.

Right now, the Labour Party serves 2 groups: public sector workers and benefit claimants. There won’t be a shortage of people on here arguing they don’t do that particularly well.

 

[skybluetony176]

How many of their councils are bankrupt?

Shouldn’t take long with pointless spending like this

Access Restricted

Reform’s Doge-style cost-cutting units ‘haven’t found any...

The party’s attempt to mimic Elon Musk’s efficiency department in the US has been branded ‘fantasy politics’ by critics

observer.co.uk

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I certainly have concerns about the calibre of Reform’s talent but looking at Labour’s cabinet, there’s no one who’s really held any senior positions in the private sector.

This old chestnut again? Just sneering at public sector workers is what this looks like.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The first council to file a section 114 notice (i.e. the council version of bankruptcy) was Northamptonshire County Council in 2018. It had been under the control of the Conservative party since 2005.

Councils, unlike a private business, are required to deliver statutory services through their settlement by central government. Councils had a real terms cut in income of 30% following 2010 yet their statutory obligations remained. It's no surprise what has happened.

Let’s explore the use of ‘real terms’, this is slippery. Have their budgets grown? Yes or no.

In the private sector, if inflation is at ‘5%’ doesn’t mean you increase what you spend by 5%. That’s a terrible way of doing business. Whereas any budget increase below inflation in ‘public sector land’ is a ‘real terms cut’.

Just one example of how councils have managed their budgets poorly. Public sector procurement practices need to be reformed desperately because examples like this show just how quickly budgets get out of control.

Councils call for reform of SEND school transport services, as costs double for local authorities in county areas over the last five years - County Councils Network

Councils have called on the next government to reform the special educational needs and disabilities (SEND) school transport system, with new data revealing costs have doubled to £800m for local authorities in county areas over the last five years. The County Councils Network (CCN) argues that...

www.countycouncilsnetwork.org.uk

 

[fernandopartridge]

Been total mismanagement in Birmingham. From ignoring and not addressing equal pay dispute for years, taking on commonwealth games, mismanagement of pension scheme. Should never have gone bust. They’re a joke

Paying a local government pension is a statutory obligation.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Let’s explore the use of ‘real terms’, this is slippery. Have their budgets grown? Yes or no.

In the private sector, if inflation is at ‘5%’ doesn’t mean you increase what you spend by 5%. That’s a terrible way of doing business. Whereas any budget increase below inflation in ‘public sector land’ is a ‘real terms cut’.

Just one example of how councils have managed their budgets poorly. Public sector procurement practices need to be reformed desperately because examples like this show just how quickly budgets get out of control.

Councils call for reform of SEND school transport services, as costs double for local authorities in county areas over the last five years - County Councils Network

Councils have called on the next government to reform the special educational needs and disabilities (SEND) school transport system, with new data revealing costs have doubled to £800m for local authorities in county areas over the last five years. The County Councils Network (CCN) argues that...

www.countycouncilsnetwork.org.uk

Next time I receive a request from a private supplier for an inflationary increase to their contract, I'll tell them that no, that's a terrible way to do business.

 

[CCFCSteve]

How would you suggest they operate their employee pensions then Steve?

I’m pretty sure BCC are still running a defined benefit scheme (schemes considering for 10-15+ years by the private sector as unviable/unfeasible) either way, it’s obviously totally unaffordable. So, services cut, council tax increasing by around 20% in a couple of years and ridiculous amounts having to be paid into a totally unaffordable scheme ?! How is this justifiable ?

BCC has exacerbated the problem by apparently overpaying into the pension scheme that apparently is now £1bn in surplus. I mean WTF.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

This old chestnut again? Just sneering at public sector workers is what this looks like.

It’s not sneering. If a cabinet was built of venture capitalists, we’d both be calling that out and be sceptical of their ability to manage public services.

With that in mind, do you reckon the cabinet considered the impact of the NI hike on employers would play out in the real world? No, because they don’t understand how businesses operate.

The culture of the public sector is completely different to the private sector. Some times for better, mostly for worse.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’m pretty sure BCC are still running a defined benefit scheme (schemes considering for 10-15+ years by the private sector as unviable/unfeasible) either way, it’s obviously totally unaffordable. So, services cut, council tax increasing by around 20% in a couple of years and ridiculous amounts having to be paid into a totally unaffordable scheme ?! How is this justifiable ?

BCC has exacerbated the problem by apparently overpaying into the pension scheme that apparently is now £1bn in surplus. I mean WTF.

Private sector salaries are often higher with the trade off that the pension schemes they run can't compare to the public sector. What you're suggesting is a scenario where we make both of them worse in the council.

Good luck retaining staff in that case.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Paying a local government pension is a statutory obligation.

Fully aware that paying a local government pension would a statutory/contractual obligation (even though the council went bust two years ago which in the real world would’ve changed everything) but the issues I raised could/should’ve been addressed years ago which would have reduced obligations

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Next time I receive a request from a private supplier for an inflationary increase to their contract, I'll tell them that no, that's a terrible way to do business.

Do you ever tender for business or just accept the additional costs?

One of the reasons I’ve kept operating costs in my area is that my supplier knows that I’ll tender their business if they increase my costs.

Likewise, elsewhere in business, operating costs rose 30% post-COVID, so they changed suppliers.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s not sneering. If a cabinet was built of venture capitalists, we’d both be calling that out and be sceptical of their ability to manage public services.

With that in mind, do you reckon the cabinet considered the impact of the NI hike on employers would play out in the real world? No, because they don’t understand how businesses operate.

The culture of the public sector is completely different to the private sector. Some times for better, mostly for worse.

Looks like sneering to me buddy, and frankly a bit insulting.

 

[SBT]

Looks like sneering to me buddy, and frankly a bit insulting.

Go out and get some real world experience, then you can talk with the big boys and girls, pal.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Private sector salaries are often higher with the trade off that the pension schemes they run can't compare to the public sector. What you're suggesting is a scenario where we make both of them worse in the council.

Good luck retaining staff in that case.

I’ve just explained that councils are paying 25% (BCC apparently 30%+) of council tax revenue* on pensions. Thats before wages, contractors, capital expenditure, social care, property costs etc etc

How is this sustainable ?

*appreciate there’s other forms of revenue such as business rates

 

[fernandopartridge]

Do you ever tender for business or just accept the additional costs?

One of the reasons I’ve kept operating costs in my area is that my supplier knows that I’ll tender their business if they increase my costs.

Likewise, elsewhere in business, operating costs rose 30% post-COVID, so they changed suppliers.

In reality any sensible contract has an indexation clause or an agreed rate of increase over its term, otherwise if you are awarding a five year contract you will pay year five prices in year one.

A local authority say in a long term contract for the provision of services to the public isn't faced with such easy choices to change suppliers (for above threshold contracts anyway).

 

[fernandopartridge]

I’ve just explained that councils are paying 25% (BCC apparently 30%+) of council tax revenue* on pensions. Thats before wages, contractors, capital expenditure, social care, property costs etc etc

How is this sustainable ?

*appreciate there’s other forms of revenue such as business rates

I have told you that it is a statutory obligation for them to do so.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’ve just explained that councils are paying 25% (BCC apparently 30%+) of council tax revenueon pensions. Thats before wages, contractors, capital expenditure, property costs etc etc

How is this sustainable ?

*appreciate there’s other forms of revenue like business rates

The country as a whole faces a serious challenge with pensions. The analogous social security programme in the US has enough in it to carry on unfunded for a good while yet, whereas whatever we're doing is a bit of a mess.

The answer in my view isn't to just make everyone's pensions worse.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Local government pension scheme is in surplus so it's clearly very sustainable.

What isn't sustainable is a race to the bottom on pay and pensions.

 

[fatso]

Of course they are, I haven't said otherwise.

I just expect Reform to be more incompetent than anyone else, and they are proving me right so far.

Basically your just a fear monger, spreading complete nonsense. The fact is no one knows how reform will do in office as they have never held office.

What we can say with some justification is that both our major political parties have failed miserabley. The tories were hopeless and Labour have been even worse.

There is now a party offering an alternative route, but my guess is that clueless fear mongers will prevent us from ever finding out if the third way is the best way.

I've no idea (yet) if reform is the answer. But the one thing im fucking certain of is that the reds and the blues arnt the way forward.

And if your complaint about the current shit state of the country while not being prepared to examine an alternative, then your absolutely insane.