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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (51 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Today at 12:32 PM
  • #56,456
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Who was the last education secretary who had any teaching experience?
Click to expand...
When I raised this before I was told it didn’t matter because it’s like being a CEO. After that, I was told I couldn’t comment on anything outside of Italy.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:33 PM
  • #56,457
Sick Boy said:
When I raised this before I was told it didn’t matter because it’s like being a CEO. After that, I was told I couldn’t comment on anything outside of Italy.
Click to expand...
Including this actually. Get back in your box ‘Gianluca’
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:34 PM
  • #56,458
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Facetious responses.

Teachers running education, or healthcare professions running health makes sense. Running energy, farming, business, economy or the home office, less so.
Click to expand...
When do political parties ever run things this way? Tory cabinet members are usually just ex-City workers who get bounced around from department to department.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:35 PM
  • #56,459
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Who was the last education secretary who had any teaching experience?
Click to expand...
It’s irrelevant to the point I was making. The Labour cabinet has very narrow experiences which makes them fundamentally ill-equipped to address certain issues the country has.

Take, for example, the increase in employer’s NI. It’s had v predictable impacts i.e. employers either; freeze hiring, cut hours/jobs or embracing automation. In fact, Reform had a similar policy that was denounced as economically illiterate in 2024 (raising NI on non-UK workers). How Reeves didn’t see this coming is beyond me. It’s had disastrous outcomes because payrolls have declined for 8 months consecutively which reduces tax take, fuels inflation and increases welfare costs.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:40 PM
  • #56,460
SBT said:
When do political parties ever run things this way? Tory cabinet members are usually just ex-City workers who get bounced around from department to department.
Click to expand...
Interesting comment for you to make. Surely you should understood my point rather than make out I was saying public sector workers do not have ‘real experience’.

If you think a cabinet of ex-city workers who all went to oxbridge, perhaps you’d think similarly of a cabinet made up of ex-union/public workers.
 

Farmer Jim

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:40 PM
  • #56,461
This is a very good analogy about all the stuff going on with the flags and anti immigration stuff going on in the UK at the moment.

If you go into the desert and catch 100 red fire ants, as well as 100 black ants and put them in all a jar, at first nothing happens.

However, if you violently shake the jar and put it back onto the ground, both sets of ants will fight until they eventually all kill each other.

The red ants think the black ants are the enemy and vice versa.

The reality is that the enemy is the person who shook the jar.

The question we should be asking ourselves, who is shaking the jar and why ?
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, RedSalmon, wingy and 2 others
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:42 PM
  • #56,462
Mucca Mad Boys said:
It’s irrelevant to the point I was making. The Labour cabinet has very narrow experiences which makes them fundamentally ill-equipped to address certain issues the country has.

Take, for example, the increase in employer’s NI. It’s had v predictable impacts i.e. employers either; freeze hiring, cut hours/jobs or embracing automation. In fact, Reform had a similar policy that was denounced as economically illiterate in 2024 (raising NI on non-UK workers). How Reeves didn’t see this coming is beyond me. It’s had disastrous outcomes because payrolls have declined for 8 months consecutively which reduces tax take, fuels inflation and increases welfare costs.
Click to expand...
Then forgive me if I’ve misunderstood, but it looks like you’re saying it’s fine for people with no experience of education or healthcare to be in charge of those departments, but not when it’s for others because you don’t need ‘real life’ experience to manage education or healthcare.

The reality seems to be that very few ministers have deep knowledge or experience of the policy areas in their portfolios. And they don’t actually need it either, that’s what various civil service and government organisations are tasked with: providing access to expert knowledge and advice.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:42 PM
  • #56,463
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Facetious responses.

Teachers running education, or healthcare professions running health makes sense. Running energy, farming, business, economy or the home office, less so.
Click to expand...
It doesn't actually in respect of clinicians. They are experts in healthcare but the economics of it they are not (and I've worked with plenty who all admit the same).
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:45 PM
  • #56,464
Brighton Sky Blue said:
‘The left are trying to destabilise things’

The left aren’t in charge. Things are being destabilised by weak and pathetic leadership.
Click to expand...

The left have been trying to destabilise Starmer since the day he was appointed Labour leader, well before he became PM, so my point was that people like Clive Lewis briefing against him isn't a sign that the government is suddenly in turmoil - it's business as usual.
 
Reactions: Grendel, fernandopartridge and Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Today at 12:47 PM
  • #56,465
Farmer Jim said:
This is a very good analogy about all the stuff going on with the flags and anti immigration stuff going on in the UK at the moment.

If you go into the desert and catch 100 red fire ants, as well as 100 black ants and put them in all a jar, at first nothing happens.

However, if you violently shake the jar and put it back onto the ground, both sets of ants will fight until they eventually all kill each other.

The red ants think the black ants are the enemy and vice versa.

The reality is that the enemy is the person who shook the jar.

The question we should be asking ourselves, who is shaking the jar and why ?
Click to expand...
A lot of the money behind the campaigns on social media comes from ultra-conservative religious organisations in the USA, IMO.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:47 PM
  • #56,466
PVA said:
The left have been trying to destabilise Starmer since the day he was appointed Labour leader, well before he became PM, so my point was that people like Clive Lewis briefing against him isn't a sign that the government is suddenly in turmoil - it's business as usual.
Click to expand...
If he wasn’t doing a shit job as PM this would be nothing for him to brush off.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:51 PM
  • #56,467
PVA said:
The left have been trying to destabilise Starmer since the day he was appointed Labour leader, well before he became PM, so my point was that people like Clive Lewis briefing against him isn't a sign that the government is suddenly in turmoil - it's business as usual.
Click to expand...
The snakes within the right wing of the party (if there is such a need for distinction) will dispose of him when the time is right, it's got nothing to do with "the left". Starmer practically purged them all. I know you won't like it but watch the Al Jazeera documentary or perhaps look at the Forde Report for some insight.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:52 PM
  • #56,468
Maria Caulfield defects to Reform, lot of Tories will secretly be happy with that.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:05 PM
  • #56,469
SBT said:
When do political parties ever run things this way? Tory cabinet members are usually just ex-City workers who get bounced around from department to department.
Click to expand...
Always makes me laugh when there's a reshuffle. Someone hasn't completely fucked up their job so they get 'promoted' to something completely unrelated.

If you're good and experienced with transport, for example, stay with transport. Don't move them somewhere else.

No other workplace does this.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Farmer Jim, CCFCSteve and 2 others

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:07 PM
  • #56,470
rob9872 said:
Tin hat time, top bait. This is 100% going to rattle a few
Click to expand...
They’ve not been given a chance and have had to take the flak and blame for Johnson and truss it feels so unfair but that’s what it is
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:08 PM
  • #56,471
PVA said:
The left have been trying to destabilise Starmer since the day he was appointed Labour leader, well before he became PM, so my point was that people like Clive Lewis briefing against him isn't a sign that the government is suddenly in turmoil - it's business as usual.
Click to expand...
 
Reactions: wingy and Sky Blue Pete

Nick

Administrator
  • Today at 1:16 PM
  • #56,472
Sick Boy said:
A lot of the money behind the campaigns on social media comes from ultra-conservative religious organisations in the USA, IMO.
Click to expand...

Looks like unions funding a lot...
 

SomersetSB

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:17 PM
  • #56,473
Starmer is changing the slogan to 5000 in non out now!!!
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:19 PM
  • #56,474
Nick said:
Looks like unions funding a lot...
Click to expand...
Who funds unions?
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Today at 1:19 PM
  • #56,475
Nick said:
Looks like unions funding a lot...
Click to expand...
There are so many obvious bot comments under videos, as well, getting people riled up. Bring back the good old days of MySpace.
 
Reactions: chiefdave

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:20 PM
  • #56,476
SomersetSB said:
Starmer is changing the slogan to 5000 in non out now!!!
Click to expand...
What does that mean?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:28 PM
  • #56,477
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Who was the last education secretary who had any teaching experience?
Click to expand...

Estelle morris I would have thought. In Coventry as well.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:29 PM
  • #56,478
Grendel said:
Estelle morris I would have thought. In Coventry as well.
Click to expand...
Correct answer, and a pretty well regarded education secretary too.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:37 PM
  • #56,479
Farmer Jim said:
This is a very good analogy about all the stuff going on with the flags and anti immigration stuff going on in the UK at the moment.

If you go into the desert and catch 100 red fire ants, as well as 100 black ants and put them in all a jar, at first nothing happens.

However, if you violently shake the jar and put it back onto the ground, both sets of ants will fight until they eventually all kill each other.

The red ants think the black ants are the enemy and vice versa.

The reality is that the enemy is the person who shook the jar.

The question we should be asking ourselves, who is shaking the jar and why ?
Click to expand...
Absolutely!
 
Reactions: Farmer Jim and Sky Blue Pete

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:39 PM
  • #56,480
fernandopartridge said:
It doesn't actually in respect of clinicians. They are experts in healthcare but the economics of it they are not (and I've worked with plenty who all admit the same).
Click to expand...
Which ironically, kind of proves the point I was making.

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Then forgive me if I’ve misunderstood, but it looks like you’re saying it’s fine for people with no experience of education or healthcare to be in charge of those departments, but not when it’s for others because you don’t need ‘real life’ experience to manage education or healthcare.

The reality seems to be that very few ministers have deep knowledge or experience of the policy areas in their portfolios. And they don’t actually need it either, that’s what various civil service and government organisations are tasked with: providing access to expert knowledge and advice.
Click to expand...
No, to be much more direct, cabinets need to be able to call upon people who have a diverse range of experiences. The Tory cabinets full of oxbridge-educated career politicians/city-boys wasn’t a good mix either. However, the Tories did in fact have people who’s background was in the public sector, the one person with entrepreneurial success (Baroness Gustafsson) has left government.
 

SomersetSB

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:40 PM
  • #56,481
Sky Blue Pete said:
What does that mean?
Click to expand...
Wasn’t it one in one out?
Non are leaving but they keep coming.
Another empty plane today!
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:40 PM
  • #56,482
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Which ironically, kind of proves the point I was making.


No, to be much more direct, cabinets need to be able to call upon people who have a diverse range of experiences. The Tory cabinets full of oxbridge-educated career politicians/city-boys wasn’t a good mix either. However, the Tories did in fact have people who’s background was in the public sector, the one person with entrepreneurial success (Baroness Gustafsson) has left government.
Click to expand...
Not to give Starmer much credit but didn’t he call on the founder of Timpson’s to assist with prisoner rehabilitation?
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and CCFCSteve

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:41 PM
  • #56,483
SomersetSB said:
Wasn’t it one in one out?
Non are leaving but they keep coming.
Another empty plane today!
Click to expand...
I think he's the most likely 'one out' at this point.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and SomersetSB
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:42 PM
  • #56,484
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Not to give Starmer much credit but didn’t he call on the founder of Timpson’s to assist with prisoner rehabilitation?
Click to expand...
Stop praising him.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, Mucca Mad Boys and Brighton Sky Blue
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:46 PM
  • #56,485
wingy said:
Stop praising him.
Click to expand...
 
Reactions: wingy
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 1:48 PM
  • #56,486
TomRad85 said:
I think he's the most likely 'one out' at this point.
Click to expand...
Watch it.
 
Reactions: TomRad85
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 2:03 PM
  • #56,487
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Interesting comment for you to make. Surely you should understood my point rather than make out I was saying public sector workers do not have ‘real experience’.

If you think a cabinet of ex-city workers who all went to oxbridge, perhaps you’d think similarly of a cabinet made up of ex-union/public workers.
Click to expand...
Just curious why you’d draw the distinction between public sector workers and others when deciding who has sufficient “real life experience”. It’s not as if Labour has traditionally been a stronghold of private sector stalwarts anyway!
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 4:55 PM
  • #56,488
SBT said:
Just curious why you’d draw the distinction between public sector workers and others when deciding who has sufficient “real life experience”. It’s not as if Labour has traditionally been a stronghold of private sector stalwarts anyway!
Click to expand...

Lammy, Cooper, Mahmood and Reeves have all operated in the private sector?
 
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