Whilst this small time minority party with only a handful of MP's has nothing to do with Rayner, he relies on you bringing this up. You'd think he was the opposition with how much coverage is given, but all the outrage from you and others, scouring the platforms to say 'look at what this guy is doing', fuels his coverage. You're giving him the oxygen and platform that he needs to succeed.Well well. Another case of what real hypocrisy looks like, this time the snake oil selling charlatan himself:
I get this certainly at the point of YT coverage,has to be said BBC also.Whilst this small time minority party with only a handful of MP's has nothing to do with Rayner, he relies on you bringing this up. You'd think he was the opposition with how much coverage is given, but all the outrage from you and others, scouring the platforms to say 'look at what this guy is doing', fuels his coverage. You're giving him the oxygen and platform that he needs to succeed.
Farage has been given coverage because lot of people like what he has to say. On Brexit and immigration, the public were happy to put their trust in the Tories between 2015 and 2024 and they violated that trust. Hence, the Tory party has imploded: no money and no activists to canvass for them.Whilst this small time minority party with only a handful of MP's has nothing to do with Rayner, he relies on you bringing this up. You'd think he was the opposition with how much coverage is given, but all the outrage from you and others, scouring the platforms to say 'look at what this guy is doing', fuels his coverage. You're giving him the oxygen and platform that he needs to succeed.
I have to say, if this is going to be the resignation standard for opposition politicians who subsequently come into power, this is a game I am excited to play.If Labour threw around the word ‘resign’ all over the gaff in opposition, it inevitably comes back at them.
His party effectively is the opposition. Either he's allowed to tell lies with no pushback, or we're 'giving him the oxygen he needs'.Whilst this small time minority party with only a handful of MP's has nothing to do with Rayner, he relies on you bringing this up. You'd think he was the opposition with how much coverage is given, but all the outrage from you and others, scouring the platforms to say 'look at what this guy is doing', fuels his coverage. You're giving him the oxygen and platform that he needs to succeed.
That's quite a leap ftom Rayner's stamp duty to 'shouting at brown prople'!!Anyone who supported the last Tory government, or the current opposition, or Farage, and is on here to bang on about Labour "hypocrisy", has absolutely no self awareness and clearly doesn't watch the news.
As for "socialism", give it a fucking rest. Most of those who yap on about it as a vague insult can't even define it, let alone ascribe it to the current government.
As to whether Rayner should go, as a minister, I'd say yes.
It's nothing to do with Labour or Tory, it's about standards in office.
The last thing we need is more fuckwits bleating on about "they're all the same", when they're obviously not. Johnson and his useless Brexit cronies were an order of magnitude more stupid and corrupt than the current lot, but that doesn't absolve Rayner and this isn't going away. The right thing to do is step down as a minister.
The point is to try to bring some honesty and honour back to politics, and show that it's worth taking an interest in it. To demonstrate that it's not all bent, and who you vote for and what they do, matters.
Otherwise all we've got is hanging up flags and shouting at brown people because, y'know, no one listens to us.
We have to hold the people we like to the same standards as the people we dislike. Too many people are just incapable of that.Anyone who supported the last Tory government, or the current opposition, or Farage, and is on here to bang on about Labour "hypocrisy", has absolutely no self awareness and clearly doesn't watch the news.
As for "socialism", give it a fucking rest. Most of those who yap on about it as a vague insult can't even define it, let alone ascribe it to the current government.
As to whether Rayner should go, as a minister, I'd say yes.
It's nothing to do with Labour or Tory, it's about standards in office.
The last thing we need is more fuckwits bleating on about "they're all the same", when they're obviously not. Johnson and his useless Brexit cronies were an order of magnitude more stupid and corrupt than the current lot, but that doesn't absolve Rayner and this isn't going away. The right thing to do is step down as a minister.
The point is to try to bring some honesty and honour back to politics, and show that it's worth taking an interest in it. To demonstrate that it's not all bent, and who you vote for and what they do, matters.
Otherwise all we've got is hanging up flags and shouting at brown people because, y'know, no one listens to us.
That's quite a leap ftom Rayner's stamp duty to 'shouting at brown prople'!!
It's like the ignore function on here, you should use it for me, we never agree, particularly on this thread, but I'm keen to know what your views are, however polar opposite to mine and they sometimes press my buttons as I'm sure my views do for you. If I saved that and didn't see you I wouldn't engage and lots of posts wouldn't be made. You surely must accept taht even if you don'yt like him you're giving him time. I would never have seen that clip. I'll bet lots of others have posted it around Twitter and elsewhere. He'll be loving that and doesn't care how many negative comments from it. You're keeping him in the news when I'm sure you'd prefer he disappears.His party effectively is the opposition. Either he's allowed to tell lies with no pushback, or we're 'giving him the oxygen he needs'.
If he had nobody refuting what he said it would be taken by more people that he was right. It's best to expose him for what he is.
I have to say, if this is going to be the resignation standard for opposition politicians who subsequently come into power, this is a game I am excited to play.
I honestly dont see the correlation. Not between the roundabouts and the racists, but between saying all politicians are the same and the roundabouts. I'm in that camp, but not the roundabouts etc which is pretty futile (not only because of my general laziness and apathy).The point is about trust in politicians. What's the most common excuse the dickheads painting roundabouts are using? No one listens to us, they're all the same.
Don't give them the ammunition.
If you don't think a large proportion of those same people have serious issues with those of a different race, religion, or ethnicity, you've not been paying attention.
In fairness, most socialists and communists struggle to define and differentiate the terms…Anyone who supported the last Tory government, or the current opposition, or Farage, and is on here to bang on about Labour "hypocrisy", has absolutely no self awareness and clearly doesn't watch the news.
As for "socialism", give it a fucking rest. Most of those who yap on about it as a vague insult can't even define it, let alone ascribe it to the current government.
As to whether Rayner should go, as a minister, I'd say yes.
It's nothing to do with Labour or Tory, it's about standards in office.
The last thing we need is more fuckwits bleating on about "they're all the same", when they're obviously not. Johnson and his useless Brexit cronies were an order of magnitude more stupid and corrupt than the current lot, but that doesn't absolve Rayner and this isn't going away. The right thing to do is step down as a minister.
The point is to try to bring some honesty and honour back to politics, and show that it's worth taking an interest in it. To demonstrate that it's not all bent, and who you vote for and what they do, matters.
Otherwise all we've got is hanging up flags and shouting at brown people because, y'know, no one listens to us.
I put people on here on ignore when they're personally insulting for no good reason. Think it's just 3 on the whole site.It's like the ignore function on here, you should use it for me, we never agree, particularly on this thread, but I'm keen to know what your views are, however polar opposite to mine and they sometimes press my buttons as I'm sure my views do for you. If I saved that and didn't see you I wouldn't engage and lots of posts wouldn't be made. You surely must accept taht even if you don'yt like him you're giving him time. I would never have seen that clip. I'll bet lots of others have posted it around Twitter and elsewhere. He'll be loving that and doesn't care how many negative comments from it. You're keeping him in the news when I'm sure you'd prefer he disappears.
In fairness, most socialists and communists struggle to define and differentiate the terms…
Whilst we disagree on topics politically, you do act in good faith and are respectful.I put people on here on ignore when they're personally insulting for no good reason. Think it's just 3 on the whole site.
You and I have political disagreements, but if I just filtered out all the political opinions I disagree with I'd be creating an artificial safe space and echo chamber. The social media algorithms have already done that for huge numbers of people. If we're going to start mending how divided our politics has become, talking to and understanding the opposing viewpoints is where it starts. We start on the basis that both want the best for the country, and I can tell that you do.
As but one example, I want rid of VAT, but that would surprise some who say 'the left are all about high taxes'. Maybe we need to start by reframing what different 'sides' think will help the country, I don't know.Whilst we disagree on topics politically, you do act in good faith and are generally respectful.
Ultimately, most people form their political views because they believe a set of ideas/policies will benefit the country. That’s something I try to keep in mind when ‘debating’ on here. Thankfully, I’ve had the benefit of having friends across the political spectrum.
I honestly dont see the correlation. Not between the roundabouts and the racists, but between saying all politicians are the same and the roundabouts. I'm in that camp, but not the roundabouts etc which is pretty futile (not only because of my general laziness and apathy).
I think she should resign
I don’t want perfect politicians as no one is perfect but I do want our leaders to own their mistakes
No mate, they really don't. That's a myth by the thick or the lazy on the right, who simply want to use the word 'socialism' as a slur. I'm sure that's not your intention though, right?
I think she should resign
I don’t want perfect politicians as no one is perfect but I do want our leaders to own their mistakes
I expect that is what will happen. For now there's an awful lot of MPs to choose from and if Starmer is smart about it he could placate the growing group of disillusioned ones.I don't think she owns it if she stays in post though, mate. She could step down as a minister, accept she's shown a lack of judgement, and perhaps come back later.
Happened to Mandelson, spend some time in the wilderness, let things boil over and make a comeback.I don't think she owns it if she stays in post though, mate. She could step down as a minister, accept she's shown a lack of judgement, and perhaps come back later.
As mentioned on this and/or previous threads, the words ‘fascists/socialist/communist’ get thrown around far too cheaply that they lose their meaning. Both sides of the political spectrum do this.
Not my intention, it was facetious and making a meta-joke that socialists will tend to argue that “real” socialism has never been tried.
Exactly, this government wants to blame their issues on ‘bad advice’ but the buck stops with them.
In my industry, tax non-compliance (deliberate or accidental) is a serious offence and could be a career ender.
I’ve seen ‘tax experts’ attempt to exonerate Rayner by differentiating between tax avoidance, tax evasion and tax non-compliance. In HMRC’s eyes, all underpaid tax is evasion and they will demand the repayment + penalties.
The pot still needs to be collected from somewhere. It's the lack of transparency in collecting tax on already taxed income. Fuel duty I get because we pay as we use it, but there's even worse as the vat on that is tax on tax on taxed income. I'm not sure removing it is the way to go as big business would benefit far more than the consumer (and I assume you're against thatAs but one example, I want rid of VAT, but that would surprise some who say 'the left are all about high taxes'. Maybe we need to start by reframing what different 'sides' think will help the country, I don't know.
During the 2014 Scottish independence referendum my wife and I did a fair bit of canvassing for the pro-Union side. Spoke to people from both sides and of course, some people will immediately turn you away, but others are willing to hear you out and understand your perspective. If by the end of the conversation you still disagree, no problem, but I think we're better off respectfully disagreeing than not listening in the first place.
As to whether Rayner should go, as a minister, I'd say yes.
It's nothing to do with Labour or Tory, it's about standards in office.
The point is to try to bring some honesty and honour back to politics, and show that it's worth taking an interest in it. To demonstrate that it's not all bent, and who you vote for and what they do, matters.
Nah, as I said, it was a meta-joke so it’d be unfair to expect anyone to ‘get it’.Fair enough. I apologise if I missed the joke. In fairness socialists are renowned for our lack of a sense of humour.
(Also a joke, btw, I'd find it hard to pin down too, so I wouldn't necessarily label myself as a socialist. It's not about a five year plan for tractor production though, I'll tell you that, comrade.)
Don’t know whether it’s boiling over it’s appropriate there’s an acknowledgment that it’s not on but doesn’t necessarily mean she loses her jobHappened to Mandelson, spend some time in the wilderness, let things boil over and make a comeback.
Apparently Rayner nearly resigned over the housing targets (1.5m) and Blair intervened to convince her to stay.
Labour have fallen behind even the Tory’s miserable building targets so it’s a good way for her to disassociate from a disastrous policy area too.
My understanding of VAT is that it's a mostly regressive tax that's making the cost of living and running small businesses higher than it needs to be. I'm sure we could look at ways of at least reducing it though, it was held at 17.5% for quite some time before it went up to 20 (I think under Cameron?).The pot still needs to be collected from somewhere. It's the lack of transparency in collecting tax on already taxed income. Fuel duty I get because we pay as we use it, but there's even worse as the vat on that is tax on tax on taxed income. I'm not sure removing it is the way to go as big business would benefit far more than the consumer (and I assume you're against that), but it certainly needs some reform.
*edit: reform with a small 'r' btw
Don’t know whether it’s boiling over it’s appropriate there’s an acknowledgment that it’s not on but doesn’t necessarily mean she loses her job
I liked it at 17.5% as I could still calculate it in my head and everyone thinks it's some kind of wizardry. Any halfwit can calculate 20%My understanding of VAT is that it's a mostly regressive tax that's making the cost of living and running small businesses higher than it needs to be. I'm sure we could look at ways of at least reducing it though, it was held at 17.5% for quite some time before it went up to 20 (I think under Cameron?).
Happy to have my mind changed, but adding 20% to your bills isn't inconsiderable.
Well she can change that narrative by resigning then not necessarily as an mp but as deputy leader‘Tory tax loophole’ perhaps Rayner asked for Jeremy Hunt’s tax advisors number in recent months.
You can’t make this up, there’s tens of tweets like this and the mantra ‘it’s always one rule for them, and another for us’ was repeated ad nauseam in opposition.
Hypocrisy is on of the worst crimes in politics.
There you go, win/win policy on SBTI liked it at 17.5% as I could still calculate it in my head and everyone thinks it's some kind of wizardry. Any halfwit can calculate 20%
The law allows for constituents to recall their own MPs now. If they wish to go that far they canWell she can change that narrative by resigning then not necessarily as an mp but as deputy leader
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