Do you want to discuss boring politics? (48 Viewers)

shmmeee · 2025-07-17T18:53:35+0100

fernandopartridge said:
It's not going to happen until the cost of living is addressed and sustainably, that means housing and energy as a minimum. Labour seems too frightened to do what is needed.

Let’s see how planning shakes out. On energy they’re certainly doing a lot. A big reason behind the current reform freak out is by 2029 well have broken the back of most of it.

On CoL, we’re not a particular outlier in that really. Birth rate really is a function of wealth and women’s education and neither of those want turning back.

Houses in the south east are expensive, but comparatively food is cheap for example compared to similar nations. Energy is a bit of an issue but that’s not fixed in a year

shmmeee · 2025-07-17T18:57:55+0100

Also “it’s cost of living” needs to explain why lower income people have more kids on average than higher income.

Super Frank · 2025-07-17T19:01:23+0100

Voting at 16? What’s the thought on this?

mmttww · 2025-07-17T19:43:08+0100

Old enough to work, old enough to vote

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · 2025-07-17T19:46:13+0100

shmmeee said:
Also “it’s cost of living” needs to explain why lower income people have more kids on average than higher income.

Poorer education and more likely to be beholden to religious dogma.

mmttww · 2025-07-17T19:48:28+0100

shmmeee said:
needs to explain why lower income people have more kids on average than higher income.

Having sex is free, level of education on the subject isn't there, might be what they see around them growing up. Lots of reasons and I think you know that. Odd position to be taking. Don't get it.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · 2025-07-17T19:53:24+0100

shmmeee said:
If everyone would just start fucking a lot of this would work itself out.

Apart from all the stuff that would get a lot worse.

More space and resources needed for housing, food, work, energy and infrastructure resulting in increased conflict over land and resources. Then the cost of protecting/repairing all this from the storms, floods and other climate problems it would lead to.

Nick · 2025-07-17T19:59:58+0100

shmmeee said:
If everyone would just start fucking a lot of this would work itself out.

People probably aren't keen on just firing kids out if they can't afford to give them a good life or a house big enough for them all.

It's alright if people are ok with letting everybody else pay for them and the council to find them a 7 bedroom house.

Nick · 2025-07-17T20:00:48+0100

shmmeee said:
Also “it’s cost of living” needs to explain why lower income people have more kids on average than higher income.

Benefits?

I know somebody who has about 15 kids, he's never worked a day in his life.

shmmeee · 2025-07-17T20:04:26+0100

mmttww said:
Having sex is free, level of education on the subject isn't there, might be what they see around them growing up. Lots of reasons and I think you know that. Odd position to be taking. Don't get it.

The position is that the evidence doesn’t support cost as a reason people don’t have kids on aggregate. Countries like SK and Hungary that have thrown cash at parents have seen zero reversal in decline. Every country that gets rich the birth rate plummets.

I find the answers pretty condescending TBH. The economically rational choice for someone in poverty is to have children, partly for financial and housing support but far more relevant is in the long term more kids means more people to support you in your old age. The idea they’re just too stupid to know better is a nonsense. I’ve known several teenage mums and dads and they all knew exactly whether they want to keep their kids or not and the tradeoffs involved. religion rarely came into it.

It was objectively harder to raise kids a hundred years ago on every measure yet birth rates were way higher.

In developed nations they started dropping with the introduction of the pill. Which implies it was choice to stop because the economy didn’t suddenly turn at that point.

Brighton Sky Blue · 2025-07-17T20:22:09+0100

shmmeee said:
The position is that the evidence doesn’t support cost as a reason people don’t have kids on aggregate. Countries like SK and Hungary that have thrown cash at parents have seen zero reversal in decline. Every country that gets rich the birth rate plummets.

I find the answers pretty condescending TBH. The economically rational choice for someone in poverty is to have children, partly for financial and housing support but far more relevant is in the long term more kids means more people to support you in your old age. The idea they’re just too stupid to know better is a nonsense. I’ve known several teenage mums and dads and they all knew exactly whether they want to keep their kids or not and the tradeoffs involved. religion rarely came into it.

It was objectively harder to raise kids a hundred years ago on every measure yet birth rates were way higher.

In developed nations they started dropping with the introduction of the pill. Which implies it was choice to stop because the economy didn’t suddenly turn at that point.

People generally are waiting until they're older to have children than before. Anyone I know who's had kids has had the first one in their 30s, whereas their parents had them in their mid-late 20s.

Perhaps that's wanting to 'do' more stuff before having your first child, but I can't shake thinking that economics/working arrangements are the bigger kicker.

shmmeee · 2025-07-17T21:01:04+0100

Brighton Sky Blue said:
People generally are waiting until they're older to have children than before. Anyone I know who's had kids has had the first one in their 30s, whereas their parents had them in their mid-late 20s.

Perhaps that's wanting to 'do' more stuff before having your first child, but I can't shake thinking that economics/working arrangements are the bigger kicker.

It’s worldwide. Some of the countries like Poland have seen huge increases in living standards. Working arrangements now may be worse than ten or even fifty years ago but are light years ahead of before that.

I don’t even think it’s wanting to do more as much as expecting a certain standard of living two incomes provides and seeing any drop even temporary as poverty, plus for women especially it’s a huge career hit and women tend to be more likely to have a career they care about considering they’ve been kicking out ass at school and uni for a generation.

I know a lot who left it late then couldn’t, that I’ve seen more than people saying they couldn’t afford it. The better educated all seem to leave it later definitely. But again when you’re talking about trends across society showing lower incomes have more kids and across the world showing poorer countries have more kids it’s hard to argue for localised effects.

South Korea is proper fucked and has been throwing cash at people to no avail. I think their working culture is probably to blame for them being an outlier, a lot of women seem to just be more picky too and less likely to settle down with a guy who doesn’t pull his weight. So you need to make it a better deal for working parents especially women 100%

I honestly believe if the majority of people had a kid they’d wonder why they ever worried about managing, but equally you’ve got to make it clear to them so they can see themselves as parents and you’ve got to enable stuff like WFH and job share that allows people to parent and work.

shmmeee · 2025-07-17T21:02:06+0100

Brighton Sky Blue said:
People generally are waiting until they're older to have children than before. Anyone I know who's had kids has had the first one in their 30s, whereas their parents had them in their mid-late 20s.

Perhaps that's wanting to 'do' more stuff before having your first child, but I can't shake thinking that economics/working arrangements are the bigger kicker.

It’s worldwide. Some of the countries like Poland have seen huge increases in living standards. Working arrangements now may be worse than ten or even fifty years ago but are light years ahead of before that.

I don’t even think it’s wanting to do more as much as expecting a certain standard of living two incomes provides and seeing any drop even temporary as poverty, plus for women especially it’s a huge career hit and women tend to be more likely to have a career they care about considering they’ve been kicking out ass at school and uni for a generation.

I know a lot who left it late then couldn’t, that I’ve seen more than people saying they couldn’t afford it. The better educated all seem to leave it later definitely. But again when you’re talking about trends across society showing lower incomes have more kids and across the world showing poorer countries have more kids it’s hard to argue for localised effects.

South Korea is proper fucked and has been throwing cash at people to no avail. I think their working culture is probably to blame for them being an outlier, a lot of women seem to just be more picky too and less likely to settle down with a guy who doesn’t pull his weight. So you need to make it a better deal for working parents especially women 100%

I honestly believe if the majority of people had a kid they’d wonder why they ever worried about managing, but equally you’ve got to make it clear to them so they can see themselves as parents and you’ve got to enable stuff like WFH and job share that allows people to parent and work. But ultimately no one has really managed this.

chiefdave · 2025-07-17T21:03:09+0100

Super Frank said:
Voting at 16? What’s the thought on this?

Jeremy Corbyn is most popular politician among 16 and 17-year-olds

Jeremy Corbyn is the most popular politician among 16 and 17 year olds, new polling has found following the news the voting age will be lowered.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

Sick Boy · 2025-07-17T21:03:57+0100

chiefdave said:
Jeremy Corbyn is most popular politician among 16 and 17-year-olds

Jeremy Corbyn is the most popular politician among 16 and 17 year olds, new polling has found following the news the voting age will be lowered.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

Another u-turn is on the horizon!

shmmeee · 2025-07-17T21:04:03+0100

mmttww said:
Old enough to work, old enough to vote

Votes at 13?

Sick Boy · 2025-07-17T21:05:55+0100

Presumably they’ll also allow 16 years to become MPs then.

shmmeee · 2025-07-17T21:07:33+0100

Super Frank said:
Voting at 16? What’s the thought on this?

Think it’s stupid but will make no tangible difference.

shmmeee · 2025-07-17T21:10:05+0100

Sick Boy said:
Presumably they’ll also allow 16 years to become MPs then.

Think this is one thing the Yanks get right. Save us from Mhairi Black and George Finch

Brighton Sky Blue · 2025-07-17T21:10:31+0100

shmmeee said:
It’s worldwide. Some of the countries like Poland have seen huge increases in living standards. Working arrangements now may be worse than ten or even fifty years ago but are light years ahead of before that.

I don’t even think it’s wanting to do more as much as expecting a certain standard of living two incomes provides and seeing any drop even temporary as poverty, plus for women especially it’s a huge career hit and women tend to be more likely to have a career they care about considering they’ve been kicking out ass at school and uni for a generation.

I know a lot who left it late then couldn’t, that I’ve seen more than people saying they couldn’t afford it. The better educated all seem to leave it later definitely. But again when you’re talking about trends across society showing lower incomes have more kids and across the world showing poorer countries have more kids it’s hard to argue for localised effects.

South Korea is proper fucked and has been throwing cash at people to no avail. I think their working culture is probably to blame for them being an outlier, a lot of women seem to just be more picky too and less likely to settle down with a guy who doesn’t pull his weight. So you need to make it a better deal for working parents especially women 100%

I honestly believe if the majority of people had a kid they’d wonder why they ever worried about managing, but equally you’ve got to make it clear to them so they can see themselves as parents and you’ve got to enable stuff like WFH and job share that allows people to parent and work.

I get that my circumstances may be an outlier, but as my stipend is sub-minimum wage, Mrs BSB is the bigger earner and we're going to get really hit when it comes to junior needing childcare. Probably have to burn through our combined savings and hope I can finish this doctorate on time.

PVA · 2025-07-17T21:13:06+0100

I don't see it making much if any difference either but it will be interesting to see what the parties look to offer younger people now rather than vague claims about making it easier to get on the property ladder.

shmmeee · 2025-07-17T21:15:02+0100

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I get that my circumstances may be an outlier, but as my stipend is sub-minimum wage, Mrs BSB is the bigger earner and we're going to get really hit when it comes to junior needing childcare. Probably have to burn through our combined savings and hope I can finish this doctorate on time.

I was SAHD during my masters and working part time and it was hard and I was lucky I could lean on parents I get that. You get tax credits, you get CB, but moreover you get a kid and they’re fucking awesome and everything else matters a little less. I found myself getting pay rises “because you’ve got a family now”, people chip in to help.

Brighton Sky Blue · 2025-07-17T21:22:04+0100

shmmeee said:
I was SAHD during my masters and working part time and it was hard and I was lucky I could lean on parents I get that. You get tax credits, you get CB, but moreover you get a kid and they’re fucking awesome and everything else matters a little less. I found myself getting pay rises “because you’ve got a family now”, people chip in to help.

I’m a postgrad student. No tax credits, no pay rise.

But if I were unemployed I’d get childcare support. Make it make sense.

shmmeee · 2025-07-17T21:38:54+0100

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I’m a postgrad student. No tax credits, no pay rise.

But if I were unemployed I’d get childcare support. Make it make sense.

im not going to argue that you don’t deserve a significant pay rise. I hope it works out for you man. Life can feel very different in a short time, divorce and a few others things have taught me that. For better or worse it’s rarely permanent.

Ian1779 · 2025-07-17T21:43:07+0100

Super Frank said:
Voting at 16? What’s the thought on this?

Why not? It’s literally the world they are going to live in as adults. It’s no less legitimate than 85 year olds voting for a government they may not live to see.

shmmeee · 2025-07-17T21:44:18+0100

Ian1779 said:
Why not? It’s literally the world they are going to live in as adults. It’s no less legitimate than 85 year olds voting for a government they may not live to see.

Votes at 0?

wingy · 2025-07-17T21:48:34+0100

shmmeee said:
Votes at 0?

Doug's ahead of the game on this one!!

Ian1779 · 2025-07-17T22:06:13+0100

shmmeee said:
Votes at 0?

mmttww · 2025-07-17T22:29:12+0100

shmmeee said:
I find the answers pretty condescending...

It's not condescending to point out that levels of literacy and how informed people tend to be is influenced by their economic situation. Our tendency to ape what we grow up around isn't a hot take.

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (48 Viewers)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency