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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (38 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 7:05 PM
  • #53,131
CCFCSteve said:
and since 2015, after which im guessing most/all current resident docs would’ve made the decision to study to be a doctor, there’s been a real term pay increase . Oh and don’t mention 23% emp’er pension conts or training costs covered by nhs

No point debating though, we’ve got an endless supply of printed cash and wealth taxes which will solve everything. All will be fine

….just don’t read the latest OBR report
Click to expand...

When asked why he wanted to be a doctor he said it "looked interesting"

The hilarious bit was when the demented woman from the Daily Express said "one of your members said they are excited to strike"

She was told she cannot really prove that but the Union guy said "oh its true - I said it"
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Yesterday at 7:09 PM
  • #53,132
CCFCSteve said:
and since 2015, after which im guessing most/all current resident docs would’ve made the decision to study to be a doctor, there’s been a real term pay increase . Oh and don’t mention 23% emp’er pension conts or training costs covered by nhs

No point debating though, we’ve got an endless supply of printed cash and wealth taxes which will solve everything. All will be fine

….just don’t read the latest OBR report
Click to expand...
Just need to give everybody loads more money, simples.
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 7:10 PM
  • #53,133
Nick said:
Just need to give everybody loads more money, simples.
Click to expand...
Why would we ever want to discourage more people becoming Doctors with how under strain our NHS is. I've never got that really.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Nick

Administrator
  • Yesterday at 7:10 PM
  • #53,134
Grendel said:
When asked why he wanted to be a doctor he said it "looked interesting"

The hilarious bit was when the demented woman from the Daily Express said "one of your members said they are excited to strike"

She was told she cannot really prove that but the Union guy said "oh its true - I said it"
Click to expand...
Weren't there any conditions when the last 2 pay rises were agreed?

I mean what's to stop it happening every couple of years?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 7:12 PM
  • #53,135
Ccfcisparks said:
Why would we ever want to discourage more people becoming Doctors with how under strain our NHS is. I've never got that really.
Click to expand...

I don't think we are. Its absurd to suggest people have signed into a course and then state that they were not aware that their pay is less in real terms than it was 17 years ago.

Its basically saying the NHS actually is not a model we can keep and we need to adopt privatisation.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Yesterday at 7:13 PM
  • #53,136
Ccfcisparks said:
Why would we ever want to discourage more people becoming Doctors with how under strain our NHS is. I've never got that really.
Click to expand...
If people were discouraged then surely there wouldn't be any junior doctors?
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 7:15 PM
  • #53,137
Nick said:
If people were discouraged then surely there wouldn't be any junior doctors?
Click to expand...
We’ve a huge issue having to take many non English doctors
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 7:18 PM
  • #53,138
Sky Blue Pete said:
We’ve a huge issue having to take many non English doctors
Click to expand...

The English doctors seem happy to be trained here and then leave to Australia where they are paid more. I am sure there is a way the government could stop that.
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 7:18 PM
  • #53,139
Nick said:
If people were discouraged then surely there wouldn't be any junior doctors?
Click to expand...
I'd suggest not granting them a pay that justifies the ever increasing demand being put on them is discouraging. I guess the truth will only come out in the next few years.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 7:19 PM
  • #53,140
Ccfcisparks said:
Why would we ever want to discourage more people becoming Doctors with how under strain our NHS is. I've never got that really.
Click to expand...


Nick said:
If people were discouraged then surely there wouldn't be any junior doctors?
Click to expand...
Sky Blue Pete said:
We’ve a huge issue having to take many non English doctors
Click to expand...


There were apparently 20,000 young doctors who apparently missed out on speciality training places this year, yet we’ve apparently got a doctor shortage so we’re employing a load of foreign docs ?! Make it make sense . This is what the BMA should be focussed on and where they should be wanting more cash directed to as it would benefit their members, the nhs and the country.

Another element of the shambolic nature of the NHS which just seems too unwieldy to control/manage properly.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 7:20 PM
  • #53,141
Ccfcisparks said:
I'd suggest not granting them a pay that justifies the ever increasing demand being put on them is discouraging. I guess the truth will only come out in the next few years.
Click to expand...

They got 22% last year and been offered 5.6% this year. If that warrants striking the country might as well shut down
 
Reactions: Grendel

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 7:50 PM
  • #53,142
CCFCSteve said:
They got 22% last year and been offered 5.6% this year. If that warrants striking the country might as well shut down
Click to expand...

How do their wages compare internationally? Thats the market we’re competing in.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 7:56 PM
  • #53,143
Found this

https://www.reddit.com/r/JuniorDoctorsUK/s/fAiNg5Q4iL

Seems we’re pretty middle of the pack but training is significantly longer. Maybe that’s the answer though I assume would also cost more with fewer JDs
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 8:01 PM
  • #53,144
shmmeee said:
How do their wages compare internationally? Thats the market we’re competing in.
Click to expand...

I presume it will vary country to country but pretty sure for GPs and specialists we pay pretty well. Probably depends on type of health service run in each country as well. I’d imagine more resident docs are likely to fuck off elsewhere because there’s isn’t a place for speciality training for them ? (Like the 20k I mentioned last year). It’s a shambles
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 8:27 PM
  • #53,145
mmttww said:
It's not like they're demanding six figures after drinking their way through a BA in Journalism.
Click to expand...
So should I cancel my meeting with HR tomorrow?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 8:27 PM
  • #53,146
Ccfcisparks said:
Why would we ever want to discourage more people becoming Doctors with how under strain our NHS is. I've never got that really.
Click to expand...
Nick will be back to moaning indirectly about foreigners again shortly
 
Reactions: Ccfcisparks
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 8:28 PM
  • #53,147
fernandopartridge said:
Nick will be back to moaning indirectly about foreigners again shortly
Click to expand...
What if it was Tommy Robinson demanding a pay rise though
 
Reactions: mmttww

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 8:41 PM
  • #53,148
"why does the NHS spend so much money on expensive locums and temporary staff?"
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 8:43 PM
  • #53,149
fernandopartridge said:
"why does the NHS spend so much money on expensive locums and temporary staff?"
Click to expand...
To make them rich?
Or is it the agencies?
Must make for an interesting dynamic in the workplace!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 8:50 PM
  • #53,150
wingy said:
To make them rich?
Or is it the agencies?
Click to expand...
At least in the area my ex worked in the process went like this.

1) budget cuts lead to staff cuts
2) there's now not enough staff to do the job safely, especially if anyone is off sick, on holiday etc
3) agency workers get called in to maintain minimum 'safe' staffing levels
4) the agency workers are previous full time staff who were let go as part of the budget cuts
5) they are paid less but cost more as the agency takes a nice chunk of the money
6) government of the day claim more is being spent on NHS staff, but fails to mention its on less staff
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and wingy
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 8:53 PM
  • #53,151
Thread sums the country up nicely. Can’t be arsed to pay medical professionals properly or offer decent conditions, also don’t want foreigners in to do the work for less.

Make your mind up
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, mmttww and SBT

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 8:58 PM
  • #53,152
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Thread sums the country up nicely. Can’t be arsed to pay medical professionals properly or offer decent conditions, also don’t want foreigners in to do the work for less.

Make your mind up
Click to expand...

Who actually decides what they are worth?
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 9:00 PM
  • #53,153
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Thread sums the country up nicely. Can’t be arsed to pay medical professionals properly or offer decent conditions, also don’t want foreigners in to do the work for less.

Make your mind up
Click to expand...
The undervaluing of medical professionals on this forum is pretty crazy.

If we weren't rapidly becoming a fatter and unhealthier nation too maybe you could dismiss it.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 9:09 PM
  • #53,154
Ccfcisparks said:
The undervaluing of medical professionals on this forum is pretty crazy.

If we weren't rapidly becoming a fatter and unhealthier nation too maybe you could dismiss it.
Click to expand...

No one is dismissing it
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 9:13 PM
  • #53,155
Grendel said:
Who actually decides what they are worth?
Click to expand...
In this case the government. Personally I think we should offer strong wages and working conditions to attract and retain the best quality.

I’m sure on a matter as important as healthcare you agree.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Lamps and Ccfcisparks

Nick

Administrator
  • Yesterday at 9:20 PM
  • #53,156
fernandopartridge said:
Nick will be back to moaning indirectly about foreigners again shortly
Click to expand...

Don't think I've ever moaned about foreigners coming over to graft. Perfectly fine with me.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Yesterday at 9:23 PM
  • #53,157
Genuine question, at what point would some of you say "taking the piss now" with people demanding pay rises or striking?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Yesterday at 9:24 PM
  • #53,158
Brighton Sky Blue said:
In this case the government. Personally I think we should offer strong wages and working conditions to attract and retain the best quality.

I’m sure on a matter as important as healthcare you agree.
Click to expand...
Define strong wages and working conditions...
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 9:25 PM
  • #53,159
Nick said:
Genuine question, at what point would some of you say "taking the piss now" with people demanding pay rises or striking?
Click to expand...
People is a very general word to use.

Are we talking about medical professionals who've trained for 10-15 years, or Shop workers?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 9:28 PM
  • #53,160
Nick said:
Define strong wages and working conditions...
Click to expand...
Do you disagree with the principle?
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 9:30 PM
  • #53,161
fernandopartridge said:
"why does the NHS spend so much money on expensive locums and temporary staff?"
Click to expand...

Because it’s poorly run

Edit - I’m saying this after speaking to a nhs consultant a couple of years ago. He explained that one of the main reasons for the exodus of staff, in particular nurses into locum/agency work was the poor staff planning and timetabling. Those with kids had better viability and flexibility by working as a temp
 
Reactions: Lamps

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 9:31 PM
  • #53,162
SBT said:
So should I cancel my meeting with HR tomorrow?
Click to expand...

You could ask Pete to sub for you in his lycra?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Yesterday at 9:32 PM
  • #53,163
Ccfcisparks said:
People is a very general word to use.

Are we talking about medical professionals who've trained for 10-15 years, or Shop workers?
Click to expand...

It's gone from FP giving examples of somebody fresh from uni to now being 10-15 years after in.

Somebody could be a GP after 10 years of training or after 15 years be an experienced consultant. They aren't junior doctors that we are on about??
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Yesterday at 9:32 PM
  • #53,164
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Do you disagree with the principle?
Click to expand...
I'm asking how it's defined.

It's all well and good saying it over and over every time somebody wants to strike but define it.

You only have to see what the train driver union thing as bad working conditions. (The poor sods having to use a tablet)
 

Lamps

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 9:34 PM
  • #53,165
Nick said:
Genuine question, at what point would some of you say "taking the piss now" with people demanding pay rises or striking?
Click to expand...
Train drivers? Over 1k a week isn't enough?
 
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