Do you want to discuss boring politics? (18 Viewers)

Sky Blue Pete said:

As a life long socialist who has become more centre left and pragmatic as life’s challenges present themselves in reality and perception the decision to stop wfa for everyone with income of £11k or more or something like that was a massive backward step as was the inheritance tax on farmers at the level it was put at.

I’d have been happy with both of it only affected those on higher rate tax or something or at a level for farms that screwed Clarkson and Lowe and others like them who are using it for legitimate tax avoidance.

We need that market for ideas to come from sensible successful professional people who understand how to make things work.
I’ve friends who have given their working lives to govern locally and some nationally and they’re genuinely doing their best in an almost impossible job

This labour government and starmer haven’t been given a fair crack of the whip. It started before the end of the election and affected the size of their vision to tinkering rather than boldly doing things that a centre left party believes in

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Grendel said:

Retard is a genetic insult word - same as Pikey or Gay - get over yourself.

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SBT said:

Genetic?

Most CEOs would get reprimanded if not fired for using it publicly, I know you’ve got your regular flirtation with PVA to maintain but this forum can do without this kind of shit.

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Grendel said:

Retard is a generic insult word - same as Pikey or Gay - get over yourself.

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Grendel said:

Retard is a generic insult word - same as Pikey or Gay - get over yourself.

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fernandopartridge said:

Explain why it's bollocks.

Let's look at the observed demographics then:

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Grendel said:

The result suggests 1 in 4 defected from the tories to reform and 1 in 6 from Labour to reform

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PVA said:

Show your workings.

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Grendel said:

What do you mean?

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Mucca Mad Boys said:

Labour has had a fair crack of the whip, their blunders have been almost entirely self inflicted. They haven’t even been in power for a year.

To be charitable, Labour has drawn the short straw so to speak because the electorate is that disillusioned after the successive regicidal Tory governments.

Ultimately, Labour’s landslide was built on a foundation of sand. People wanted to get rid of the tories. The main thing,

I made some posts last year that was to the effect that a Starmer led government just wasn’t equipped to deal with the challenges the country faces. Their election pitch was pretty vague, so there’s no real commitment to specific policies (hence Starmer folds under pressure and U-turns under WFA and NATO defence spending). It’s fair to say that the electorate and Labour themselves felt it couldn’t get much worse…

To quote Mick McCarthy…

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Mucca Mad Boys said:

Labour has had a fair crack of the whip, their blunders have been almost entirely self inflicted. They haven’t even been in power for a year.

To be charitable, Labour has drawn the short straw so to speak because the electorate is that disillusioned after the successive regicidal Tory governments.

Ultimately, Labour’s landslide was built on a foundation of sand. People wanted to get rid of the tories. The main thing,

I made some posts last year that was to the effect that a Starmer led government just wasn’t equipped to deal with the challenges the country faces. Their election pitch was pretty vague, so there’s no real commitment to specific policies (hence Starmer folds under pressure and U-turns under WFA and NATO defence spending). It’s fair to say that the electorate and Labour themselves felt it couldn’t get much worse…

To quote Mick McCarthy…

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shmmeee said:

You mean places where people want to live?

I’m not sure what that quote is meant to prove other than developers main job and where most value is added is currently in navigating an overly complex and restrictive planning regime rather than building houses TBH. Are you supposed to be supporting my point?

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Sky Blue Pete said:

Fair crack
Conservatives 14 years
Labour 10 months
Lol

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Mucca Mad Boys said:

In your honest opinion, do you feel like you’ve got what you voted for?

My personal view is that reality has hit this government hard in the face and they haven’t got what it takes to get out of the rut. They’re 1 year in and had 2 (?) resets, several U-turns and there’s even talk that Starmer may not fight the next election… it’s not looking good.

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chiefdave said:

Except he wasn't. He never went away. Literally the morning after the Brexit result he was on TV moaning about it and setting up his next 'the wrong brexit' grift.

The fact is you could put a dome over the UK and not let a single person in and, as it wouldn't solve all the countries problems, you'd have the likes of Farage finding their next target. Suspect we'd first be on get all the foreigners out before they move on to first and second generation immigrants.

Only way you shut the likes of Farage up is to 'fix' the country. If people see their standard of living increasing, are able to access healthcare, see their elderly loved ones properly cared for the issue goes away.

Its not a coincidence that the popularity of people like Farage increases in times of economic hardship.

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Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

Indeed.

How can you say Farage has been 'put out of business' when his party have just swept local elections and are being touted as being serious competition at the next GE?

The rest of what he wrote sounded fine, but that bit about Farage is just nuts.

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Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

Indeed.

How can you say Farage has been 'put out of business' when his party have just swept local elections and are being touted as being serious competition at the next GE?

The rest of what he wrote sounded fine, but that bit about Farage is just nuts.

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Sky Blue Pete said:

Why do people fall for it everytime?

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Grendel said:

Fall for what?

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chiefdave said:

Arrests of illegal migrant workers increase by 51% in year since Labour elected

From 5 July 2024 - the day after Labour won the election - to 31 May 2025, 6,410 people have been arrested on suspicion of working illegally in the UK, according to Home Office figures.

news.sky.com

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Sky Blue Pete said:

Fear and blame

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Grendel said:

I wish you’d explain what you mean rather than talk in riddles.

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Sky Blue Pete said:

The politics of telling you what to fear and who is to blame

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tisza said:

surely a claim that can be levelled at every political party?

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Sky Blue Pete said:

The politics of telling you what to fear and who is to blame

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Mucca Mad Boys said:

To flip this on its head, why do you keep falling for the idea that government can fix all the ills of the world?

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Mucca Mad Boys said:

To flip this on its head, why do you keep falling for the idea that government can fix all the ills of the world?

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Grendel said:

Also why 4 out of 10 feel the same political establishment that’s offered them nothing whichever is in charge means they just never engage in politics.

Why he just doesn’t say it’s idiots and ignorants who vote for Farage - which is what he thinks - I’ve no idea. It’s not fear it’s a real life experience that no one listens abd it’s shite. The notion a middle class knight of the realm would understand poverty is as absurd as Boris Johnson in reality. He doesn’t and he never will.

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Sky Blue Pete said:

I don’t think so but ok

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Grendel said:

Also why 4 out of 10 feel the same political establishment that’s offered them nothing whichever is in charge means they just never engage in politics.

Why he just doesn’t say it’s idiots and ignorants who vote for Farage - which is what he thinks - I’ve no idea. It’s not fear it’s a real life experience that no one listens abd it’s shite. The notion a middle class knight of the realm would understand poverty is as absurd as Boris Johnson in reality. He doesn’t and he never will.

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Sky Blue Pete said:

Cos I don’t think that is probably why. It’s not idiotic or ignorant to be promised things and to believe it
The liar is Farage and tice and Anderson and Robinson and musk and trump and and people like them saying that if we just other those who don’t look like us or have our background then our lives would be perfect. It’s a bare faced lie and they know it is

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Mucca Mad Boys said:

You don’t think the left deploys fear and blame?

Look at some of the envy shown by our more left wing posters on; private school VAT raises, wealth taxes, second home ownership and so on.

The left has also bought into the conspiracy theory that the NHS is being deliberately defunded so it can be privatised since the 1980s. Labour regularly weaponises the NHS by putting ‘mock medical bills’ on the campaign trail whilst ignoring all the merits of social-insurance that provide, in principle, the same as the NHS (but to a significantly better standard).



Exactly. Middle class socialists / social democrats can be some of the most envious people I’ve come across. I had the pleasure of sharing a politics seminar with a Labour Counsellor at uni. That person didn’t care about addressing the ills of the working class but was driven by envy of rich.



How trustworthy is Starmer? Elected to Labour leadership on a left wing agenda. Dropped that for more ‘moderate’ policy positions, promised to not raise taxes on ‘working people’ to then significantly raise taxes by increasing NI on employers (which is a job tax that impacts workers).

Your dismissal of Farage and Tice comes across as v detached. The anti-immigration sentiment across the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Spain (and so on) isn’t based on nothing. People see the breakdown of their societies and fed up of a broken asylum system.

They’re voting for parties that talk about things they can see with their own eyes. Hence the electoral coalitions in Europe have abandoned centre-left parties for ‘hard right’ parties.

Middle class leftists just do not seem to grasp this. Strict regulation of the labour market (i.e. strong borders) used to be equally important to both the political right and left.

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