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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (22 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,721
skybluetony176 said:
The Rwanda scheme never made a blind bit of difference. Cost us £280M for nothing. The numbers arriving by boats actually went up. If £28M a year has any effect at all it will be money far wiser spent than the Rwanda scheme.
Click to expand...
If only a few people had actually been sent there,
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,722
chiefdave said:
View attachment 36984
Click to expand...

How gullible and naive are you to believe JSO propaganda,
According to Putin, Russia never bombs civilian targets.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,723
shmmeee said:
Bring back the sheriff driving people out to the City Limits and outlaws.
Click to expand...
Wonder if anyone has asked how many British people there are in foreign jails !!!
 
Reactions: wingy

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,724
MalcSB said:
Very difficult to work with someone who is ideologically totally opposed to what you are trying to do.
Click to expand...

Good to see you show some sympathy for civil servants at last.
 
Reactions: MalcSB and Sky Blue Pete

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,725
MalcSB said:
How gullible and naive are you to believe JSO propaganda,
According to Putin, Russia never bombs civilian targets.
Click to expand...

There was no protest. It was just planned. They were jailed for conspiracy.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,726
MalcSB said:
Not helped when on the odd occasions when it’s tried, other passengers prevent the flight taking off.
Plus human rights lawyers.
Click to expand...
Those bastard lawyers looking out for human rights.

The problem with those flights is sometimes they've bunged on people who shouldn't have been deported as well! I mean that's such a simple thing to get right, it's blundering on the scale of missing an assassin crawling around.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,727
MalcSB said:
If they are that worried, they can always return.
Click to expand...

Oh dear
 
Reactions: Deleted member 9744

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,728
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-03-13/debates/7ECEDA17-1A72-4C2D-97BB-40EDAD97CCD9/BritishNationalsImprisonedAbroad#:~:text=Every%20year%2C%20nearly%206%2C000%20British,or%20ill%20treated%20while%20abroad.

6000 a year so a fair chance there are more Britain’s in prison abroad than foreigners in our prisons

mmmmmm interesting
 
Reactions: Deleted member 9744

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,729
Sky Blue Pete said:
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-03-13/debates/7ECEDA17-1A72-4C2D-97BB-40EDAD97CCD9/BritishNationalsImprisonedAbroad#:~:text=Every%20year%2C%20nearly%206%2C000%20British,or%20ill%20treated%20while%20abroad.

6000 a year so a fair chance there are more Britain’s in prison abroad than foreigners in our prisons

mmmmmm interesting
Click to expand...
Beg your pardon it’s 1700 in prison on this more accurate one so 10%

https://www.europris.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Pauline-Crow-Brits-in-prison-in-Europe-18-19.pdf
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,730
Sky Blue Pete said:
Beg your pardon it’s 1700 in prison on this more accurate one so 10%

https://www.europris.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Pauline-Crow-Brits-in-prison-in-Europe-18-19.pdf
Click to expand...
Granted!!🫣
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,731
Sky Blue Pete said:
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-03-13/debates/7ECEDA17-1A72-4C2D-97BB-40EDAD97CCD9/BritishNationalsImprisonedAbroad#:~:text=Every%20year%2C%20nearly%206%2C000%20British,or%20ill%20treated%20while%20abroad.

6000 a year so a fair chance there are more Britain’s in prison abroad than foreigners in our prisons

mmmmmm interesting
Click to expand...

So if we deport all theirs, and they deport all ours,our prisons will be even fuller?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,732
shmmeee said:
There was no protest. It was just planned. They were jailed for conspiracy.
Click to expand...
There were “protests”. They were jailed for conspiracy to organise the protests.

From The Independent

“Five Just Stop Oil protesters have been jailed for conspiring to organise protests that blocked the M25 motorway.

Roger Hallam, 58, Daniel Shaw, 38, Louise Lancaster, 58, Lucia Whittaker De Abreu, 35, and Cressida Gethin, 22, agreed to cause disruption to traffic by having protesters climb onto gantries over the motorway for four successive days in November 2022.

Prosecutors alleged the protests, which saw 45 people climb up the gantries, led to an economic cost of at least £765,000, while the cost to the Metropolitan Police was more than £1.1 million.

They allegedly caused more than 50,000 hours of vehicle delay, affecting more than 700,000 vehicles, and left the M25 “compromised” for more than 120 hours.

A police officer suffered concussion and bruising after being knocked off his motorbike in traffic caused by one of the protests on 9 November 2022, prosecutor Jocelyn Ledward KC said at the sentencing hearing at Southwark Crown Court on ”
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,733
MalcSB said:
There were “protests”. They were jailed for conspiracy to organise the protests.

From The Independent

“Five Just Stop Oil protesters have been jailed for conspiring to organise protests that blocked the M25 motorway.

Roger Hallam, 58, Daniel Shaw, 38, Louise Lancaster, 58, Lucia Whittaker De Abreu, 35, and Cressida Gethin, 22, agreed to cause disruption to traffic by having protesters climb onto gantries over the motorway for four successive days in November 2022.

Prosecutors alleged the protests, which saw 45 people climb up the gantries, led to an economic cost of at least £765,000, while the cost to the Metropolitan Police was more than £1.1 million.

They allegedly caused more than 50,000 hours of vehicle delay, affecting more than 700,000 vehicles, and left the M25 “compromised” for more than 120 hours.

A police officer suffered concussion and bruising after being knocked off his motorbike in traffic caused by one of the protests on 9 November 2022, prosecutor Jocelyn Ledward KC said at the sentencing hearing at Southwark Crown Court on ”
Click to expand...

Ah, the article I read said it was for conspiracy and they were arrested for talking about it on a Zoom call. I stand corrected.
 
Reactions: MalcSB and Sky Blue Pete

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,734
shmmeee said:
Good to see you show some sympathy for civil servants at last.
Click to expand...
Very funny, but actually supports the point
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,735
MalcSB said:
If only a few people had actually been sent there,
Click to expand...
This is exactly why it was always going to fail. It was a simplistic answer to a complex question. Just so little understanding of the odds for example of people trying to get here. It literally didn’t matter how many people we sent to Rwanda their odds of dying on route to the UK at pretty much every stage were far greater than their odds of getting sent to Rwanda. They accepted those odds why would smaller odds deter them? Forget the dangerous crossings of the Med and the English Channel in small boats, they actually had a higher chance of dying crossing Europe by any means with the exception of the train than getting sent to Rwanda once they got here.

The money spent on Rwanda would have been far better spent dealing with the route causes at ground zero.
 
Last edited: Jul 19, 2024

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,736
SkyBlueDom26 said:
No it ain’t, should have been longer it could have caused accidents and people would have got hurt
Click to expand...
A motorway being closed will reduce accidents actually
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,737
fernandopartridge said:
A motorway being closed will reduce accidents actually
Click to expand...
lets close all motorways them, sheer brilliance,

It might increase accidents on non motorway roads, cause huge inconvenience to people trying to go about their lawful business, increase congestion and hence pollution leading to countless urban deaths from respiratory conditions.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,738
skybluetony176 said:
This is exactly why it was always going to fail. It was a simplistic answer to a complex question. Just so little understanding of the odds for example of people trying to get here. It literally didn’t matter how many people we sent to Rwanda their odds of dying on route to the UK at pretty much every stage were far greater than their odds of getting sent to Rwanda. They accepted those odds why would smaller odds deter them? Forget the dangerous crossings of the Med and the English Channel in small boats, they actually had a higher chance of dying crossing Europe by any means with the exception of the train than getting sent to Rwanda once they got here.

The money spent on Rwanda would have been far better spent dealing with the route causes at ground zero.
Click to expand...
We will never know whether the possibility of being sent to Rwanda on top of, and having survived, all the dangers you identify would have been the straw that broke the camels back and deterred people from their hazardous journey to the last safe place of many they would encounter and pass through en route.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,739
clint van damme said:
Oh dear
Click to expand...
Well, if you will make stupid statements, what do you expect.
I doubt that people who have fled Hong Kong will give the JSO convicts a second thought.
Dale Vince equating the sentences to North Korea or Russia - they haven’t been machine gunned or poisoned.
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,740
Sky Blue Pete said:
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-03-13/debates/7ECEDA17-1A72-4C2D-97BB-40EDAD97CCD9/BritishNationalsImprisonedAbroad#:~:text=Every%20year%2C%20nearly%206%2C000%20British,or%20ill%20treated%20while%20abroad.

6000 a year so a fair chance there are more Britain’s in prison abroad than foreigners in our prisons

mmmmmm interesting
Click to expand...
Yes. I am sure they would oppose us taking Shamima Begun back.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,741
MalcSB said:
Well, if you will make stupid statements, what do you expect.
I doubt that people who have fled Hong Kong will give the JSO convicts a second thought.
Dale Vince equating the sentences to North Korea or Russia - they haven’t been machine gunned or poisoned.
Click to expand...

He's right. we're on a slippery slope.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,742
clint van damme said:
He's right. we're on a slippery slope.
Click to expand...
Under a Labour government too.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,743
chiefdave said:
View attachment 36984
Click to expand...

Mmmm

Ambulance heading to emergency blocked as Just Stop Oil clash with police

Met Police said the ambulance, which had flashing blue lights on, wasn’t able to get over the London bridge due to the climate change protest
www.independent.co.uk
 
Reactions: MalcSB and Sky Blue Pete

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,744
Hey Malc, i've got a new avatar for you mate
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, PVA, MalcSB and 2 others

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,745
fernandopartridge said:
Hey Malc, i've got a new avatar for you mate
Click to expand...

That's is literally how I imagine him!
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,746
clint van damme said:
That's is literally how I imagine him!
Click to expand...
Thanks, that is an incredible likeness.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, Deleted member 5849, Sky Blue Pete and 2 others

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,747
MalcSB said:
Thanks, that is an incredible likeness.
Click to expand...
Touché
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,748
MalcSB said:
We will never know whether the possibility of being sent to Rwanda on top of, and having survived, all the dangers you identify would have been the straw that broke the camels back and deterred people from their hazardous journey to the last safe place of many they would encounter and pass through en route.
Click to expand...
We do. Numbers went up while the threat was being administered. At best it had no effect at worst it had negative effect. You can ignore the facts all you like but it didn’t work.

They used to like to point to Australia as justification. Look at the reality in Australia, it didn’t work as a deterrent. They thought they’d do it for a year and it would stop them. 10 years later they’re still doing it and now the conversation has changed in Australia about how it’s an expensive failed folly and the money would have been better spent at ground zero addressing the causes.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,749
MalcSB said:
lets close all motorways them, sheer brilliance,

It might increase accidents on non motorway roads, cause huge inconvenience to people trying to go about their lawful business, increase congestion and hence pollution leading to countless urban deaths from respiratory conditions.
Click to expand...
We should put anyone whose car breaks down in jail
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,750
Grendel said:
Mmmm

Ambulance heading to emergency blocked as Just Stop Oil clash with police

Met Police said the ambulance, which had flashing blue lights on, wasn’t able to get over the London bridge due to the climate change protest
www.independent.co.uk
Click to expand...
If you check the FOI related to that the ambulance service said it was not on an emergency call and it was a non issue. That’s entirely consistent with JSOs stated policy of moving for emergency services on blue lights
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,751
chiefdave said:
We should put anyone whose car breaks down in jail
Click to expand...
Bloody hell, you do come out with some crap. A breakdown is accidental, not deliberate.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,752
chiefdave said:
If you check the FOI related to that the ambulance service said it was not on an emergency call and it was a non issue. That’s entirely consistent with JSOs stated policy of moving for emergency services on blue lights
Click to expand...
That’s not the only occasion. And, of course, people travelling for life saving chemotherapy etc. don’t tend to have blue lights.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,753
chiefdave said:
If you check the FOI related to that the ambulance service said it was not on an emergency call and it was a non issue. That’s entirely consistent with JSOs stated policy of moving for emergency services on blue lights
Click to expand...

It had its blue lights on?
 
N

Northants Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,754
Deleted member 5849 said:
I never get the 'ha you're not deliberately living in abject poverty therefore you can't want a better world' argument, whatever the subject.
Click to expand...
Fairs fair Northern, anyone pulling for a more equitable society has to personally live in a cardboard box and dress in bin-liners to avoid being called a hypocrite
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2024
  • #41,755
Anecdotal but a mate of mine was viciously attacked in the street in 2019 in an unprovoked attack. Fractured cheek bone, broken nose bad concussion amongst various other injuries and 2 weeks in hospital. Aside from the fact that it only got to court early this year the guy who was very well known to the police, has a history of violence including previous custodial sentences got a fine and community service, most likely because the prisons are full according to his solicitor. It was a serious attack that could have been much worse only 3 bystanders intervened, the guy was jumping on his head while he was already unconscious lying on the ground.

4 and 5 years for protesting seems out of kilter to me when you consider who isn’t being locked up and what they did. Punish them for sure but at least make that punishment fit especially when considering it to other far far more serious crimes.
 
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