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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (13 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2024
  • #35,106
fernandopartridge said:
Perhaps you're misunderstanding what I meant by not voting
Click to expand...
Nope.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2024
  • #35,107
JAM See said:
Nope.
Click to expand...
Not putting an X in the box on the ballot paper doesn't necessarily mean one doesn't attend a polling station or post a ballot, does it?

I think your romanticism for the extent to which voting affects change is nice but surely must collide with reality at some point. It has been completely exploited.
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2024
  • #35,108
fernandopartridge said:
Not putting an X in the box on the ballot paper doesn't necessarily mean one doesn't attend a polling station or post a ballot, does it?

I think your romanticism for the extent to which voting affects change is nice but surely must collide with reality at some point. It has been completely exploited.
Click to expand...
Yawn.

"Look at me, I'm a cool nihilist"

Boring, and negative.

Moan moan moan.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2024
  • #35,109
JAM See said:
Yawn.

"Look at me, I'm a cool nihilist"

Boring, and negative.

Moan moan moan.
Click to expand...
So you’re gonna put a tick in the box next to Starmer’s approved candidates? Seeing as he’s abandoned the guise of a broad church unless you are a right wing xenophobe.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2024
  • #35,110
JAM See said:
Yawn.

"Look at me, I'm a cool nihilist"

Boring, and negative.

Moan moan moan.
Click to expand...
Cool, I'll go and vote for one of the candidates now you've convinced me
 
Reactions: Grendel

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,111
My faith in the elderly has been restored

 
Reactions: JAM See, Grendel and SIR ERNIE

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,112
skybluetony176 said:
My faith in the elderly has been restored

Click to expand...

Barking mad old duffers.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and TomRad85

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,113
Ian1779 said:
So you’re gonna put a tick in the box next to Starmer’s approved candidates? Seeing as he’s abandoned the guise of a broad church unless you are a right wing xenophobe.
Click to expand...

In a speech today he's on about the small boats and conflating them with the 100k asylum backlog. Rattling on about hotel accommodation.
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,114
skybluetony176 said:
My faith in the elderly has been restored

Click to expand...
I hope I'm that politically involved in my dotage.

Unlike some on here who can't even be bothered to exercise their franchise, because voting is bad apparently.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
D

Deleted member 162

Guest
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,115
JAM See said:
I hope I'm that politically involved in my dotage.

Unlike some on here who can't even be bothered to exercise their franchise, because voting is bad apparently.
Click to expand...
Do you believe the politicians elected, are the ones that are actually in power?
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,116
SkyblueCookie said:
Do you believe the politicians elected, are the ones that are actually in power?
Click to expand...
Yes I do.

From Churchill, through Atlee, Wilson, Heath, Thatcher, Blair and the awful last 14 years, the elected governments, for better or worse are the people setting the agenda.

You may not agree with the decisions they make, but they are ultimately responsible for the success or failure of the policies they implemented.

To believe otherwise is proper tinfoil hat territory.
 
D

Deleted member 162

Guest
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,117
JAM See said:
Yes I do.

From Churchill, through Atlee, Wilson, Heath, Thatcher, Blair and the awful last 14 years, the elected governments, for better or worse are the people setting the agenda.

You may not agree with the decisions they make, but they are ultimately responsible for the success or failure of the policies they implemented.

To believe otherwise is proper tin hat territory.
Click to expand...
So firstly on power, you don't find companies with GDPs larger than most countries directly investing in, on one side mainstream political campaigns and lobbying, and the other side funding political activist groups weird? This doesn't raise any eyebrows to you? Every major Western leader across five eyes coming out with the slogan "build back better" during covid didn't look suspicious to you? The political parties in this world can't get complete alignment on party level matters yet every major party comes out completely aligned and spouting the same slogan, and that is just normal?

Back to one of the earlier points, the 2019 general election had a 67.3% turnout. Things have only got exponentially worse since then across the board in all democracies under all varieties of usual right/left parties. Do you not think the better approach would be to understand why people may be becoming jaded, rather than brow beating them about their justified observations the leadership in all forms is nose diving our civilization? I am expecting even less this time around personally.

Lastly, just a personal observation, what I don't understand from older heads like you, is you have more than likely lived through the winter of discontent, which was labour, we saw labours reaction to the 2008 crash and the wars in the middle east. We've seen the conservatives make a whole host of catastrophic decisions flanking these periods of power, and we've seen the lib dems do meekly, very little. You have witnessed with your own eyes how "changing the team" doesn't actually course correct anything. You've seen leader after leader promise and lie and promise and lie, and yet you still wave your little flag and viscerally attack anyone who looks sideways at this whole mess, when you should have learned more lessons than anyone else. It strikes as nothing more than tribalism, ironically the same as supporting a football team.

I'm not here to lecture or convince you of anything. I was just curious of your perspective. Thank you for your reply.
 
Reactions: wingy
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,118
Kind of surprised that Just Stop Oil would assign the one job that required a modicum of physical strength to a couple of elderly guys….they didn’t even manage to break the glass!
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,119
fernandopartridge said:
In a speech today he's on about the small boats and conflating them with the 100k asylum backlog. Rattling on about hotel accommodation.
Click to expand...
I’m quite certain he’d continue with the Rwanda policy but simply argue he could be either more efficient or effective implementing it.
 
Reactions: shmmeee
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,120
SBT said:
Kind of surprised that Just Stop Oil would assign the one job that required a modicum of physical strength to a couple of elderly guys….they didn’t even manage to break the glass!
Click to expand...
Blame the tool's!
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,121
Ian1779 said:
I’m quite certain he’d continue with the Rwanda policy but simply argue he could be either more efficient or effective implementing it.
Click to expand...

I hear as soon as he gets into number 10 he’s going to remove his mask to reveal mecha thatcher.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,122
SBT said:
Kind of surprised that Just Stop Oil would assign the one job that required a modicum of physical strength to a couple of elderly guys….they didn’t even manage to break the glass!
Click to expand...

Ageist!
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,123
SkyblueCookie said:
Do you believe the politicians elected, are the ones that are actually in power?
Click to expand...
Depends what you mean by in power. Are they the ones that have the power to change laws and implement policy then yes. The real question is who’s driving the agenda and shaping the narrative. We know Truss’ budget that crashed the economy for instance was the idea of several Tufton St think tanks but most notably the IEA. Truss was cheerleaded into power by a right wing press to implement a Tufton St budget that heavily favoured an elite minority, no doubt who fund “think” tanks like the IEA. The biggest problem in politics is that there’s too many useful idiots easily convinced by secretively funded think tanks and cheerleaded by a right wing press into positions of power and responsibility.

The electorate (myself included) has been asleep at the wheel for too long. I think that tide is turning and society is starting to do things like not have enough of experts. Time will tell.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,124
JAM See said:
Thanks for tracking back @jimmyhillsfanclub

I was en route to NYC for a lash for Paddy's day on the 14th March so didn't catch up on the chat for a bit.

I'm very much in favour of compulsory voting, if that includes "None of the above" or going nuclear and spoiling your ballot paper, then that's fine, at least you are honouring the men and women who fought for your right to spoil the ballot.

You're right, I do passionately believe in the franchise that our forebears fought for.

It breaks my heart that some of the intelligent, erudite posters on here choose to turn their back on the only method we, the proletariat, have of effecting change.

Let's be honest, revolution is not going to happen. Voting is our only voice.

Yet some choose not to participate. Baffles me.
Click to expand...

And politely, I disagree.

It's not for the state to demand my participation in an election.

My choosing not to vote, should I choose that path, hurts no one. Why should anyone be compelled to vote by law?
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,125
SBT said:
Kind of surprised that Just Stop Oil would assign the one job that required a modicum of physical strength to a couple of elderly guys….they didn’t even manage to break the glass!
Click to expand...

I think it's entirely possible that they didn't actually want to damage the Magna Carta, but just draw attention to their cause. I guess they've done that.

I'm not sure that attacking cultural or artistic touchstones brings any great deal of support for any cause, mind.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,126
duffer said:
I think it's entirely possible that they didn't actually want to damage the Magna Carta, but just draw attention to their cause. I guess they've done that.

I'm not sure that attacking cultural or artistic touchstones brings any great deal of support for any cause, mind.
Click to expand...
Oh of course they didn’t, none of these protests ever do, and they’re pretty effective at getting publicity. I just think if you’re not strong enough to actually break the protective glass, just do the tomato soup thing again!
 
Reactions: duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,127
SBT said:
Oh of course they didn’t, none of these protests ever do, and they’re pretty effective at getting publicity. I just think if you’re not strong enough to actually break the protective glass, just do the tomato soup thing again!
Click to expand...

I think the problem with soup is you'd have to clear it all off again to glue yourself to the glass.
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,128
duffer said:
And politely, I disagree.

It's not for the state to demand my participation in an election.

My choosing not to vote, should I choose that path, hurts no one. Why should anyone be compelled to vote by law?
Click to expand...
I admire your politeness @duffer.

But deep down I know you know you're wrong.

The franchise was hard fought for. It MUST be protected.

Compulsory voting is coming.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,129
JAM See said:
I admire your politeness @duffer.

But deep down I know you know you're wrong.

The franchise was hard fought for. It MUST be protected.

Compulsory voting is coming.
Click to expand...
It isn’t coming and why should it? I am not voting and I see that as a statement, there is not a No Suitable Candidate so why should I go and spoil my ballot paper - or, as I have done before - vote for the most stupid non entity I can find on there.

I have no interest - there is no Conservative Party anymore - Labour are a zombie government in waiting and anyone voting for Ed Davy needs sectioning
 
D

Deleted member 162

Guest
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,130
JAM See said:
I admire your politeness @duffer.

But deep down I know you know you're wrong.

The franchise was hard fought for. It MUST be protected.

Compulsory voting is coming.
Click to expand...
"We must protect democracy via authoritarianism!" Interesting perspective
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,131
#Fascists!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,132
I suppose the only amusing bit about Labour recruiting far right MPs is its upset the political version of @covcity4life

Natalie Elphicke is a hard-right Tory. Her defection sums up Labour’s contempt for progressive voters | Owen Jones

It was hailed as a triumph: it is anything but. It reveals a party that’s lost its moral compass
amp.theguardian.com
 

JAM See

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2024
  • #35,133
SkyblueCookie said:
"We must protect democracy via authoritarianism!" Interesting perspective
Click to expand...
"We must protect the children via taxation and the welfare state"

What's your point? No laws are the best laws?

We, the proletariat, are being excisied, and you in the name of freedom are participating in the great robbery.

Don't vote, feel superior.

Yes, compulsory voting is the right thing.

Crack on with your soundbites whilst the world goes to shit around you.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2024
  • #35,134
JAM See said:
I admire your politeness @duffer.

But deep down I know you know you're wrong.

The franchise was hard fought for. It MUST be protected.

Compulsory voting is coming.
Click to expand...

Whether it was fought for or not is irrelevant.

Again, what business do you or anyone else have to *demand* that everyone votes?

It's sufficient that we have the right to vote, that's what was fought for, not the compulsion to do so.

We have lots of other rights that were hard won too.

Take the right to protest peacefully, for example. That was hard fought too, and is more genuinely at risk perhaps.

What if I demanded your attendance on a bi-annual basis at a protest march of your choosing as a mark of respect to those who fought for it?

Or gay marriage. That right took literally centuries to come into place. Are you obliged to do that too, out of respect for the thousands of gay men and women who were persecuted over the years?

It's a fallacy that your right to vote is in any way diminished by another's choice not to do so. Or that not voting is an act of disrespect.

What you're proposing is authoritarianism; the state's unnecessary intervention in the freedom of action of an individual to act according to his own choice, when that choice obviously in no way harms himself or others.

Luckily, I see no evidence that compulsory voting is coming - has anything been proposed by any UK political party that backs your assertion in this regard?

I'm afraid you're making the mistake that deep down everyone believes what you believe. Sorry, but you're wrong.
 
Reactions: StrettoBoy

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2024
  • #35,135
Very few countries outside South America take this view so I do not really see why its inevitable

Countries with Mandatory Voting 2025

Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.
worldpopulationreview.com
 
Reactions: StrettoBoy

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2024
  • #35,136
Just listening to the rest is politics, Campbell in favour of compulsory voting and assisted dying, haha!

You want to end it all, crack on its your life mate, but you will put a fucking cross in a box on your way out! What a c**t.
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge and Grendel

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2024
  • #35,137
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2024
  • #35,138
fernandopartridge said:
Click to expand...
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 11, 2024
  • #35,139
Ian1779 said:
View attachment 35638
Click to expand...
Guess you've seen that mental interview where somebody puts it to him what a c**t she is and he just blurts "I'm delighted to welcome her to the Labour party"
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • May 12, 2024
  • #35,140
fernandopartridge said:
Guess you've seen that mental interview where somebody puts it to him what a c**t she is and he just blurts "I'm delighted to welcome her to the Labour party"
Click to expand...
Seems odd for him to be welcoming Elphicke into the party with open arms when Abbott is still suspended from it
 
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