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Derby points deduction (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Sky Blue Pete
  • Start date Sep 15, 2021
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Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #491
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Problem with that method is all it has done has maintained the status Quo, Bayern Munich and occasionally Dortmund are going to win that league.

RB Leipzig have been decent but that’s only because Red Bull have fudged the membership criteria
Click to expand...

Wouldn’t have had SISU’s nonsense with their rules.
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #492
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Wouldn’t have had SISU’s nonsense with their rules.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, like i said Red Bull have made a system where they price out normal fans, it’s all their mates in the 51%

could see SISU doing the same
 

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #493
'It's the final countdown'...should be Derby's new song to run out to at Mel's stadium
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #494
I don’t really get the obsession with the German model it’s no better in reality than here
 
Reactions: Skybluemichael, mark82, eastwoodsdustman and 1 other person
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #495
Grendel said:
I don’t really get the obsession with the German model it’s no better in reality than here
Click to expand...
If anything it promotes keeping the same teams At the top.

no rich individual are going to spend all their money knowing they’re the minority owner

there are exceptions (hoffenheim) but rarely do you not see Bayern at the top
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #496
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
If anything it promotes keeping the same teams At the top.

no rich individual are going to spend all their money knowing they’re the minority owner

there are exceptions (hoffenheim) but rarely do you not see Bayern at the top
Click to expand...

It’s also no better financially - a third of top clubs are trading in an insolvent situation
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #497
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
If anything it promotes keeping the same teams At the top.

no rich individual are going to spend all their money knowing they’re the minority owner

there are exceptions (hoffenheim) but rarely do you not see Bayern at the top
Click to expand...

The Germans have tried to keep the game at least vaguely attached to its roots instead of whoring out to the highest bidder and going ‘whoops’ when a club gets itself into trouble.

At least ticket prices there remain affordable for the average person
 
Reactions: SkyBlueSam01, CovBrummie94 and Danceswithhorses

eastwoodsdustman

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #498
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
If anything it promotes keeping the same teams At the top.

no rich individual are going to spend all their money knowing they’re the minority owner

there are exceptions (hoffenheim) but rarely do you not see Bayern at the top
Click to expand...
They all just bend the rules the same as clubs here, season ticket prices are well below ours, how can they afford to be paying £100k a week to players?
 

SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #499
Derby have now rejected four bids from Millwall for Sibley, the latest being 450k. He burst onto the scene two years ago but on the bench this season despite their woes
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #500
SlowerThanPlatt said:
Derby have now rejected four bids from Millwall for Sibley, the latest being 450k. He burst onto the scene two years ago but on the bench this season despite their woes
Click to expand...

He can do much better than them anyway
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #501
The German model is great from a fan perspective. Having that involvement on board level means they get cheap tickets, standing areas, beer in the stands, cheap travel etc. etc. etc.

Apart from that though their game is no more healthy than ours.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #502
Liquid Gold said:
The German model is great from a fan perspective. Having that involvement on board level means they get cheap tickets, standing areas, beer in the stands, cheap travel etc. etc. etc.

Apart from that though their game is no more healthy than ours.
Click to expand...

The problem is the obscene TV money here in combination with a few of the mega tycoon bankrolled clubs driving up wages to levels that can’t really be matched in leagues or clubs without either.
 
Reactions: HuckerbyDublinWhelan
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #503
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The Germans have tried to keep the game at least vaguely attached to its roots instead of whoring out to the highest bidder and going ‘whoops’ when a club gets itself into trouble.

At least ticket prices there remain affordable for the average person
Click to expand...
Yeah but unless you’ve got an unlimited funded sponsor like Allianz you have a ceiling.
 
Reactions: Londonccfcfan

SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #504
Brighton Sky Blue said:
He can do much better than them anyway
Click to expand...

Don’t know about that or you’d expect bigger clubs to be in for him given the fee
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #505
SlowerThanPlatt said:
Don’t know about that or you’d expect bigger clubs to be in for him given the fee
Click to expand...

Strange isn't it. Can fully understand them wanting the best possible value for him but on the other hand they let a key player in Shinnie go for £30k.
Sibley probably won't be on as much money but signed a new contract last season & Shinnie wasn't exactly a big earner either.

*EDIT
Scratch that last point, seems Shinnie was on £10k per week.
Even then it only saved them £280k ish, chicken feed really.
 

CDK

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #506
Boro and Wycombes issues just waiting for the ownership issue to be sorted before starting compensation cases ,quite rightly in my view would put off wannabee owners and serves them right ,club's shouldnt be run this way and deserve punishment.
 
Reactions: slyblue57 and Danceswithhorses

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #507
jordan210 said:
My fav part of the statement is 11. Does the EFL have a vendetta against Derby County?

The fact Derby fans seam to think they are being treated worse then anyone ever before is laughable
Click to expand...
A sizeable proportion on here have alluded to there being agendas against us in the past.
 

Londonccfcfan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #508
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Yeah but unless you’ve got an unlimited funded sponsor like Allianz you have a ceiling.
Click to expand...
Thats my employer! Wouldnt say unlimited funds....extremely risk averse. Reputation and brand is everything.
 
Reactions: HuckerbyDublinWhelan

MusicDating

Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #509
I see that Pride Park is owned by another of Morris's companies that isn't in admin. So anyone buying them would be broadly getting the same as buying us; the name, golden share and players.
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #510
Londonccfcfan said:
Thats my employer! Wouldnt say unlimited funds....extremely risk averse. Reputation and brand is everything.
Click to expand...
Unlimited was a bit exaggerated haha! Isn’t their deal with Bayern the biggest commercial deal in the world?

The brand of Bayern is certainly a good partner
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #511
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Yeah but unless you’ve got an unlimited funded sponsor like Allianz you have a ceiling.
Click to expand...

The top flight itself isn’t really a closed shop of the same teams going up and down which for me adds to the interest. In the second tier you’ve got a who’s who of big clubs as well.

You don’t get anywhere in the English game without a tycoon either
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #512
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The top flight itself isn’t really a closed shop of the same teams going up and down which for me adds to the interest. In the second tier you’ve got a who’s who of big clubs as well.

You don’t get anywhere in the English game without a tycoon either
Click to expand...
Correct by the German league is more like a glamorous Scottish league. Outside of Bayern and Dortmund the next lot of teams aren’t great,

financially Hamburg and Werder Bremen are struggling. As someone said - isn’t as great as it’s cracked up to be

what frightens me about CCFC and any potential 50+1 rule is that it would end up with the Trust being on board.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and eastwoodsdustman

slowpoke

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #513
MusicDating said:
I see that Pride Park is owned by another of Morris's companies that isn't in admin. So anyone buying them would be broadly getting the same as buying us; the name, golden share and players.
Click to expand...
I think things like this is what is screwing up the admin process. Looks like Morris has dumped the club and it’s football related debts which he helped create but hanging on to Pride Park for example which could and would be profitable.
 

win9nut

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #514
Liquid Gold said:
The German model is great from a fan perspective. Having that involvement on board level means they get cheap tickets, standing areas, beer in the stands, cheap travel etc. etc. etc.

Apart from that though their game is no more healthy than ours.
Click to expand...
 

Londonccfcfan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #515
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Unlimited was a bit exaggerated haha! Isn’t their deal with Bayern the biggest commercial deal in the world?

The brand of Bayern is certainly a good partner
Click to expand...
No idea...i think the formula 1 was a few years back...
 
Reactions: HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Londonccfcfan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #516
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Unlimited was a bit exaggerated haha! Isn’t their deal with Bayern the biggest commercial deal in the world?

The brand of Bayern is certainly a good partner
Click to expand...
Saracens certainly wasnt a good reputational partner...we pulled plug on that one after many years.
 
Reactions: HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #517
MusicDating said:
I see that Pride Park is owned by another of Morris's companies that isn't in admin. So anyone buying them would be broadly getting the same as buying us; the name, golden share and players.
Click to expand...
I'm sure i read somewhere that Mel Morris might be willing to sell Pride park back to the club for approx £20m, but that just makes a mockery of the £81.1m he bought it for...an amount clearly just enough (or so he thought) to dodge the financial mess he got them in to.
The more generous the sale price is, obviously, the easier it will be for the administrator to sell the club (but that costs MM a bundle)
It also appears that the administrator may be able to force the sale of Pride Park for a 'fair price', as it is an asset linked to the administration, however that would take some time...a commodity they do not possess currently.

Fun times for all Derby fans
And schadenfreude for me for having to listen to the 'you've been living beyond your means for years, so you've got no one to blame except yourself', as we lost our stadium, tumbled down the divisions, went into admin, and even moved away from our home city (twice)
 
Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
Reactions: robbiethemole and montydon87
S

Speedies_Chips

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #518
Liquid Gold said:
The German model is great from a fan perspective. Having that involvement on board level means they get cheap tickets, standing areas, beer in the stands, cheap travel etc. etc. etc.

Apart from that though their game is no more healthy than ours.
Click to expand...
Heidi Klum - now there's a German model!
 
Reactions: Mcbean

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 19, 2022
  • #519
If they are getting rid of loads of players and are under embargo.

Will they just call games on now based on COVID or will they be getting penalties if they can't fulfill fixtures?
 
S

skyblue025

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2022
  • #520
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Correct by the German league is more like a glamorous Scottish league. Outside of Bayern and Dortmund the next lot of teams aren’t great,

financially Hamburg and Werder Bremen are struggling. As someone said - isn’t as great as it’s cracked up to be

what frightens me about CCFC and any potential 50+1 rule is that it would end up with the Trust being on board.
Click to expand...

Hamburg and W Bremen are both in the German 2nd tier. Hamburg have been there 4 or 5 years.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2022
  • #521
Liquid Gold said:
I don't actually have a problem with that but there should be some regulations that enforce owners to be personally responsible for the full wages of any players bought in during their tenure if the club goes under during their ownership.

In this case then you can go nuts and back the club to the top if you're Coates but if you fuck things up like Morris then you have to pay the price over the fans.
Click to expand...

It's one of the things about businesses as separate legal entities that creates problems. Gives individuals all the rewards but not suffer any of the consequences. Do you think we'd see the kind of risky behaviour we've seen not just in things like football but in the financial markets if individuals were personally responsible financially for what they were doing?
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2022
  • #522
Liquid Gold said:
Best thing that could happen is a squad cap at all age groups above a certain age. Stops clubs becoming loan farms and allows talent to come down the pyramid.

Would also result in lower transfer fees at this level as PL clubs would have to release a player before signing a new one if they couldn’t find a buyer and could possibly suppress wages.
Click to expand...

This is preferred route compared to a cap on spending/wages. But I wouldn't add in a caveat of over a certain age. You can have a set amount of players on deals and that's it. New players cannot be added until one of the old squad has either been sold or had their contract annulled.

Gets talent filtering down through the leagues, improving the overall standard and could bring costs back to something respectable. Could help the national team as players are being forced to make their way in the lower leagues rather than sitting on a cushy deal playing in U23 until they're in their mid-20's.

Issue is what would that squad size be? Probably 50-60 to include allowing development of those just graduated from the academy.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2022
  • #523
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
This is preferred route compared to a cap on spending/wages. But I wouldn't add in a caveat of over a certain age. You can have a set amount of players on deals and that's it. New players cannot be added until one of the old squad has either been sold or had their contract annulled.

Gets talent filtering down through the leagues, improving the overall standard and could bring costs back to something respectable. Could help the national team as players are being forced to make their way in the lower leagues rather than sitting on a cushy deal playing in U23 until they're in their mid-20's.

Issue is what would that squad size be? Probably 50-60 to include allowing development of those just graduated from the academy.
Click to expand...
By age group I'm talking about stuff like under12s under14s.

Clubs should be able to try and develop as many as they can but then only have a certain number on a pro contract.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Frostie

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2022
  • #524
 
Reactions: Danceswithhorses

Saddlebrains

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2022
  • #525
They wont go tits.

Too big a club.

Will be interesting if they did though. Can see the whole house of cards falling then.
 
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