Delusion? (1 Viewer)

stupot07 said:

if that's where you want to be, and have not settle for this level, why are you so insistent we commit to a ong rental deal at the ricoh with limited/no access to revenues that will almost certainly place a glass ceiling well and truly above us preventing us from getting to the PL and making us a league one-championship yo yo club at best?

we will not get back to the PL under sisu and we certainly wont get back to the PL renting matchday only from Wasps

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I must have different figures to you because if we get 20,000 + and we are in the PL with TV revenues we can survive.
Getting out this league and through the Championship is the problem.
However if we start winning games and start looking as if we are going to win something the fans will flood back. Maintain it and they will stay for the ride.

The Ricoh is the only option we have, but options are disappearing everyday.
I'm keen to push for a win win situation at the Ricoh but talk of new stadiums and legal action ruins any chance of that.
As does fans giving the impression that they want a new stadium.

We need to get the best deal we can from Wasps and then we can re-assess what are next options are based on that.
If it's shown that the new stadium is the best option then so be it, But it's not yet.

People are upset that we are not in charge at the Ricoh, but it's done and we need to move on, try to be positive and see what happens.
If Wasps don't support our aspirations then we move on.

RFC said:

Will never ever go to the Ricoh to watch Rugby and wish the Sky Blues were ........

Not @ Ricoh because CCC would not have been able to do what they've done with WASPS.

Check out the FACTS.

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please show me the facts for all your claims - including smoking guns.

or shut the fuck up!

martcov said:

please show me the facts for all your claims - including smoking guns.

or shut the fuck up!

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Might be a good idea to book yourself into a course of anger management.

Have a nice day!

RFC said:

Might be a good idea to book yourself into a course of anger management.

Have a nice day!

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Will do. Now back to the "facts". Come on RFC, lay out the facts and back up your claims. Please.

RFC said:

Might be a good idea to book yourself into a course of anger management.

Have a nice day!

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Why do you spread such malicious lies on this website? Its very tiresome.

martcov said:

Will do. Now back to the "facts". Come on RFC, lay out the facts and back up your claims. Please.

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I'm not going to do your work for you, as I said check-out the facts and resist playing the blame game.

We are where we are and either get on with it or just give up.

MichaelCCFC said:

The absolutely basic point is there's people on here and elsewhere on social media saying things like a new stadium will be built, wasps will buy ccfc, wasps will benefit us or disagree that sisu need to go before we can make progress; so the OP was asking if anyone can provide any facts to back up these points or else is it all just hope, wishful thinking or (the new stadium being the best example) getting towards delusion?

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how can we provide facts on future possibilities? It is possible that a stadium will be built. That is a fact. It is possible that Wasps buy CCFC. That is a fact. It is possible that the Wasps purchase can benefit us. That is a fact. It is a fact that it is possible, but no one can say for definite that these possibilities will become realities. So, what can anyone offer as a future fact in this story? It is not delusion for the most of us as we do not believe 100% that these things, some of which are contradictory, will occur. We can only speculate or assert that the are likely or unlikely to occur - based on past performance. The OP is asking for the impossible - facts in the future.

RFC said:

I'm not going to do your work for you, as I said check-out the facts and resist playing the blame game.

We are where we are and either get on with it or just give up.

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my work? You accuse the council of crimes on a social media site and say it is my job to find the facts to support your claim? Are you a total fool? I hope that someday a lawyer asks you the prove your claims once and for all in a court of law, and if you cannot, then that you get a huge bill for damages. We are where we are because of SISU's inaction and actions - at least a part of which has been confirmed in a court of law. I am not going to give up being a CCFC fan ( albeit in exile ) because a fool like you tells me to give up.

italiahorse said:

I must have different figures to you because if we get 20,000 + and we are in the PL with TV revenues we can survive.
Getting out this league and through the Championship is the problem.
However if we start winning games and start looking as if we are going to win something the fans will flood back. Maintain it and they will stay for the ride.

The Ricoh is the only option we have, but options are disappearing everyday.
I'm keen to push for a win win situation at the Ricoh but talk of new stadiums and legal action ruins any chance of that.
As does fans giving the impression that they want a new stadium.

We need to get the best deal we can from Wasps and then we can re-assess what are next options are based on that.
If it's shown that the new stadium is the best option then so be it, But it's not yet.

People are upset that we are not in charge at the Ricoh, but it's done and we need to move on, try to be positive and see what happens.
If Wasps don't support our aspirations then we move on.

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As long as we are paying rent and not getting access to the money we are responsible for generating then we will be working with one hand tied behind our backs. Then you have the obvious embarrassment of playing in a stadium rebranded for someone else. If Wasps charged a nominal rent and let us have that revenue access, the numbers at least would be in favour of us staying. However Wasps do not profit from such an arrangement and are hindered by having to invest in more to keep the pitch playable.

So I am led to think that they will let us stay on terms suitable to them and with nowhere else to go we will have to accept it. I could be wrong and they could be very charitable, but they are owned by businessmen of the same ilk as our own owners. No harm in trying to get favourable terms for the club I agree, just think it's very unlikely to be accepted.

italiahorse said:

I must have different figures to you because if we get 20,000 + and we are in the PL with TV revenues we can survive.
Getting out this league and through the Championship is the problem.
However if we start winning games and start looking as if we are going to win something the fans will flood back. Maintain it and they will stay for the ride.

The Ricoh is the only option we have, but options are disappearing everyday.
I'm keen to push for a win win situation at the Ricoh but talk of new stadiums and legal action ruins any chance of that.
As does fans giving the impression that they want a new stadium.

We need to get the best deal we can from Wasps and then we can re-assess what are next options are based on that.
If it's shown that the new stadium is the best option then so be it, But it's not yet.

People are upset that we are not in charge at the Ricoh, but it's done and we need to move on, try to be positive and see what happens.
If Wasps don't support our aspirations then we move on.

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So your figures show we can only survive in the Premier League at the Ricoh then? Surely your figures show that it isn't a very good situation for a League One club to be in?

Nick said:

So your figures show we can only survive in the Premier League at the Ricoh then? Surely your figures show that it isn't a very good situation for a League One club to be in?

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We have no choice unless you think financing a new stadium is an option.
Get the best deal now before it's too late and Wasps are not so receptive.
Start winning and give us something to support and everything will fall into place.

italiahorse said:

We have no choice unless you think financing a new stadium is an option.
Get the best deal now before it's too late and Wasps are not so receptive.
Start winning and give us something to support and everything will fall into place.

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So what's a good deal for the club then? You keep going on about get the best deal possible. What can wasps offer extra that they don't already?

Bennets Afro said:

So what's a good deal for the club then? You keep going on about get the best deal possible. What can wasps offer extra that they don't already?

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Free rent
All stadium generated revenue on CCFC match day, parking, hotel, food and drink absolutely everything. Unrestricted access to all areas/conference rooms etc. of Ricoh and facilities (none of this rubbish about being relegated to a crappy office space as a dressing room) on match day to either use themselves or set up own events before/after or during match
A cut of all sponsorship, advertising deals and naming right deals associated with the Ricoh
A number of set non match days where the club can use the Ricoh, for things like JSB events, Christmas events, fan days, end of season event/award cermony etc. same rules apply about generated revenue as above.


Then it might be worthwhile.

Bennets Afro said:

So what's a good deal for the club then? You keep going on about get the best deal possible. What can wasps offer extra that they don't already?

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There is no good deal. We are playing second fiddle to a rugby club. Our "new ground" only exsists in fairy land. We are tenants and can only hope for a good relationship with our landlords. Maybe they can work with us for mutual benefit.... But it's their choice, they are in the driving seat.

Let's hope SISU can build a better relationship with Wasps than with Higgs and the council. That is the best we can hope for.

stupot07 said:

Some excellent posts there OSB, although I would throw caution regard the average price per head as they includes a lot of money that's not connected to customers (I.e. The c£3.5m they get for being in the premiership, tv rights, etc) just like the c£5m more we would get in the championship. Without downloading their accounts, it's difficult to estimate the actual cash terms per head, we know that ours is a oh £10.80 per head, based on information on ticket revenues. Wasps are also selling tickets at the Ricoh considerably cheaper than what's available at Adams park, plus you've got the compass deal which means they'd only be getting 7.5% of f&b money initially.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

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I wouldn't disagree with most of that stupot. The comparison I made is very simplistic. I think the point is though that there would appear to be a greater spend per spectator from a rugby crowd than a football crowd. Build in to that lower cost structures for rugby and it would seem the breakeven point for Wasps at the Ricoh is lower than it would be for say CCFC.

The compass deal is for compass to supply ACL (through IEC) with stadium management and staffing. That means that they bill IEC (the ACL subsidiary) monthly for the services/staffing they have provided. The Turnover including that for F&B's belongs to IEC (and therefore ACL), of any profit compass can take 23% by way of any dividends (none paid). Wasps now own ACL and therefore the turnovers and most of the profits belong to them now.

average crowds at matches disclosed in the Wasps accounts were 2013 - 6654, 2012- 6745

Looking at the costs in the 2013 accounts then there are savings that will have been made. For instance they paid out 533k (2013) and 697k (2012) in rent will they have to pay any at the Ricoh? Costs of pitch maintenance can be spread between the many different day renters, there is no great interest burden 158k in 2013 will even that continue?

They will of course be able to get the other incomes (car parking, F&B's etc) from their own crowds which they didn't apparently at adams park. Plus adams park only held 10600 - crowds for local derbies are surely going to exceed that? So ticket prices might be down but the turnover could be up ?

certainly is not as simple as some people saying here "but they made 3m losses so they can not succeed".