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Delusion? (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter MichaelCCFC
  • Start date Nov 27, 2014
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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #176
Cheshire Sky Blue said:
But you have repeatedly demonstrated on here that you have zero business aptitude. So you being OK with it means zilch.
Click to expand...

Touchy. You're right, I have no business aptitude when a High Court judge delivers a verdict on SISU's actions that I was stating for months and months beforehand.

What is this, the playground?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #177
italiahorse said:
We need to get the best offer we can as we have no plan B.
This is the time for Sisu to do it while Wasps are receptive and maybe uncertain about their decision to buy the Ricoh.
However Sisu keep going on about this Timpot stadium and JR appeal instead.
Click to expand...

So no examples? Wasps will only be receptive to what ultimately makes them money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #178
Senior Vick from Alicante said:
Sorry Brighton, if you think SISU owned the Ricoh arena could you see them letting us play at the stadium rent free with all the revenue generated being put on the pitch? They are leaches mate, we would have bobbed along just as we are now while the owners leached every penny they could.
Click to expand...

I would have seen the club being sold pretty soon after. Having the Ricoh on the balance sheet makes the club as a whole a more attractive package than without it. All part of the exit strategy.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #179
italiahorse said:
Wasps coffers or Sisu coffers, that's the choice.
Click to expand...

SISU want shot of the club but they want to minimise the loss. So having a ground on your balance sheet makes up in part for you also selling a crap League 1 team. It drives up the club's valuation and makes bidders take a bit more notice.

No businessman except someone with the wealth of the Thais at Leicester or the Sheikh at Man City uses football as anything other than a profit making exercise. Maybe you could 'get over it' too.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #180
Nick said:
Council would never ever allow it anyway
Click to expand...

Wouldn't an appeal take it out of the councils hands?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #181
chiefdave said:
Wouldn't an appeal take it out of the councils hands?
Click to expand...

I thought the council didn't make decisions out of spite?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #182
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I thought the council didn't make decisions out of spite?
Click to expand...

I think if SISU put in an application to build a stadium in the city it would be up to us to get behind them and put pressure on the council to give it the green light. The council may want to reject it out of spite but the more pressure on them to accept the better. If they did then reject it they would have to give reasons, if it was seen to be a valid reason fair enough, if it wasn't seen that way they would struggle to justify the decision.

But lets assume they would reject it out of spite, which they may well do, the question is would any appeal go over their heads?
 

Senior Vick from Alicante

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #183
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I would have seen the club being sold pretty soon after. Having the Ricoh on the balance sheet makes the club as a whole a more attractive package than without it. All part of the exit strategy.
Click to expand...

But they haven't. And why? Its because they were trying to get everything on the cheap from a council and a charity by distressing a business instead of paying the going rate. Sisu would not have been able to purchase anything if the charity and council had not stepped up to the plate in the first place. That said if they had got the Ricoh their is no guarantee that this would have been their exit strategy, Many people think that the club was bought to buy the arena and surrounding land not for the fact that it was a football club. It could have been an ice cream van for what it matters, it was just a means to buy the Ricoh and development land that was always the real carrot. These people are clueless, the club will be jettisoned when their business strategy has run its course, the fact that they no longer have the chance to buy the Ricoh will only speed this up.
 

Senior Vick from Alicante

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #184
chiefdave said:
I think if SISU put in an application to build a stadium in the city it would be up to us to get behind them and put pressure on the council to give it the green light. The council may want to reject it out of spite but the more pressure on them to accept the better. If they did then reject it they would have to give reasons, if it was seen to be a valid reason fair enough, if it wasn't seen that way they would struggle to justify the decision.

But lets assume they would reject it out of spite, which they may well do, the question is would any appeal go over their heads?
Click to expand...

The Council would have to follow Government guidelines for the building of any new stadia. It is dependant on infrastructure, regeneration and lots of other factors, SPITE can not come into it. Sisu would have to prove all these things in any application, though we all know this is Timothys personal wet dream and has as much chance of happening as Nick Clegg being the next Prime minister.
 

skybluefred

New Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #185
AndreasB said:
Wasps takeover perhaps?

SISU for all their faults were LIED to by fans who promised they would return in numbers if we were back at the Ricoh - and then turned round to club and said "sorry and all that but we are actually NOPM until you go"
Click to expand...

I don't know any fan who told our scum owners that they would return in force if we came back to the Ricoh. What the clueless owners need to do
is spend some decent money instead of relying on other teams cast off's, that way we might actually have a team who are a credit to the City
and are worthy of our support. NOPM is a brilliant way of getting across the huge majority's opinion of the way our Club is being destroyed.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #186
chiefdave said:
I think if SISU put in an application to build a stadium in the city it would be up to us to get behind them and put pressure on the council to give it the green light. The council may want to reject it out of spite but the more pressure on them to accept the better. If they did then reject it they would have to give reasons, if it was seen to be a valid reason fair enough, if it wasn't seen that way they would struggle to justify the decision.

But lets assume they would reject it out of spite, which they may well do, the question is would any appeal go over their heads?
Click to expand...

If any appeal didn't go over their heads the appeals process would make no sense.
 

Como

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #187
The Ricoh dream has failed.

Surely now is time to recognise the inevitable with an orderly return to Sixfields and a pitch that suits our style of play.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #188
Brighton Sky Blue said:
SISU want shot of the club but they want to minimise the loss. So having a ground on your balance sheet makes up in part for you also selling a crap League 1 team. It drives up the club's valuation and makes bidders take a bit more notice.
Click to expand...

Not a bad guess. But that is all it is. A guess.

Did they ever seriously try to buy the Ricoh? Why did it become all about the freehold? If they would have got the freehold with all the surrounding land as they said they wanted would they have let it go with our football club or would they have just offloaded our football club cheaply whilst keeping the Ricoh, rental income, 365 income from the arena and sell the surrounding land?

All we can do is guess what they had planned.......that is if they had anything planned. Just like they don't seem to have any plans now.
 

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #189
Nick said:
Council would never ever allow it anyway
Click to expand...

Seriously?

The Council cannot reject a legitimate planning application.

Because of that it is actually possible in theory to get a stadium built within Coventry.

A stadium will never be built "In the Coventry area" because of the greenbelt.

So its either Coventry or at least 10 miles ish away.
 
Last edited: Nov 28, 2014

Senior Vick from Alicante

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #190
Astute said:
Not a bad guess. But that is all it is. A guess.

Did they ever seriously try to buy the Ricoh? Why did it become all about the freehold? If they would have got the freehold with all the surrounding land as they said they wanted would they have let it go with our football club or would they have just offloaded our football club cheaply whilst keeping the Ricoh, rental income, 365 income from the arena and sell the surrounding land?

All we can do is guess what they had planned.......that is if they had anything planned. Just like they don't seem to have any plans now.
Click to expand...

Question for me Astute is have they ever had the money? Every one on here could have bought the club for a pound, accounts can always be manipulated to show a strong trading position or the opposite for that matter. I don't think SISU have ever had physical cash and the wear withal to be able to make the purchase.
 

Bennets Afro

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #191
Astute said:
Not a bad guess. But that is all it is. A guess.

Did they ever seriously try to buy the Ricoh? Why did it become all about the freehold? If they would have got the freehold with all the surrounding land as they said they wanted would they have let it go with our football club or would they have just offloaded our football club cheaply whilst keeping the Ricoh, rental income, 365 income from the arena and sell the surrounding land?

All we can do is guess what they had planned.......that is if they had anything planned. Just like they don't seem to have any plans now.
Click to expand...

If SISU could sell a team that was only renting a stadium they would of done so by now and got out of town, so what makes you think of they owned ACL this would be possible?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #192
Senior Vick from Alicante said:
Question for me Astute is have they ever had the money? Every one on here could have bought the club for a pound, accounts can always be manipulated to show a strong trading position or the opposite for that matter. I don't think SISU have ever had physical cash and the wear withal to be able to make the purchase.
Click to expand...

Good question.

SISU invest other peoples money. Are all the funds that Joy looks after held together or are there separate pots depending on investment types? Has Joy made money on other investments whilst losing money on CCFC? Has she lost investors since losing on CCFC? Is the pot nearly dry? There are so many possibilities.

I would guess that at first the gamble was taken to get us back into the Prem. That would have made them a massive amount of money. Once they failed after losing a lot of money there wasn't enough to pay a large amount for the Ricoh. So then it was decided to get it as cheaply as they could. And this has led us to where we are now. But I have as much chance as being wrong as anyone else
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #193
Como said:
The Ricoh dream has failed.


Surely now is time to recognise the inevitable with an orderly return to Sixfields and a pitch that suits our style of play.
Click to expand...

Perhaps we need to change our style then because none of the pitches we've played on this season have suited our style. Home or away.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #194
Bennets Afro said:
If SISU could sell a team that was only renting a stadium they would of done so by now and got out of town, so what makes you think of they owned ACL this would be possible?
Click to expand...

They could have sold us for a quid and kept the arena if they had managed to have got the freehold. Now they would get a quid and lose out on everything they have lost on our club. Quite simple really.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #195
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Residents will cite a 2nd stadium bringing economic benefits to another part of the city in addition to the roaring success in Foleshill.
Click to expand...

Wasps tried that line in Wycombe - demonstrations, protests etc. and no planning permission - that is exactly why they are here. Do you think Cov would be any different? We have enough trouble trying to utilise the Ricoh - that's why Wasps need CCFC.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #196
Astute said:
Not a bad guess. But that is all it is. A guess.

Did they ever seriously try to buy the Ricoh? Why did it become all about the freehold? If they would have got the freehold with all the surrounding land as they said they wanted would they have let it go with our football club or would they have just offloaded our football club cheaply whilst keeping the Ricoh, rental income, 365 income from the arena and sell the surrounding land?

All we can do is guess what they had planned.......that is if they had anything planned. Just like they don't seem to have any plans now.
Click to expand...

No point in selling the club without the ground as then they would be no better off than just selling it under ACL's tenancy. Club + stadium= good package for an investor.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #197
Nick said:
Council would never ever allow it anyway
Click to expand...

er...that's what I just said. They do have to listen to the residents when a planning application is there.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #198
Brighton Sky Blue said:
No point in selling the club without the ground as then they would be no better off than just selling it under ACL's tenancy. Club + stadium= good package for an investor.
Click to expand...

Second club to exsisting stadium owner....? Club then has ground. Investor has club.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #199
martcov said:
Second club to exsisting stadium owner....? Club then has ground. Investor has club.
Click to expand...

Not this again......wasps will not be buying the club.

People need to forget this idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #200
chiefdave said:
I think if SISU put in an application to build a stadium in the city it would be up to us to get behind them and put pressure on the council to give it the green light. The council may want to reject it out of spite but the more pressure on them to accept the better. If they did then reject it they would have to give reasons, if it was seen to be a valid reason fair enough, if it wasn't seen that way they would struggle to justify the decision.

But lets assume they would reject it out of spite, which they may well do, the question is would any appeal go over their heads?
Click to expand...

The residents would object and the council would be justified in rejecting it - as happened in Wycombe. We have a stadium and it cost a lot of time and money to get it approved - with council support and HR being sold off to developers ( a stadium to replace a stadium and not a second stadium ). We wouldnt get council support after the last episode.
 

Bennets Afro

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #201
Astute said:
They could have sold us for a quid and kept the arena if they had managed to have got the freehold. Now they would get a quid and lose out on everything they have lost on our club. Quite simple really.
Click to expand...

Who would buy the club tho without a stadium?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #202
stupot07 said:
Noyt this again......wasps will not be buying the club.

People need to forget this idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

Anyone remember the "SISU are the only show in town" line?

I aint saying its going to happen but if they can pick up CCFC up for the right price why wouldn't they?
 

Bennets Afro

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #203
skybluetony176 said:
Anyone remember the "SISU are the only show in town" line?

I aint saying its going to happen but if they can pick up CCFC up for the right price why wouldn't they?
Click to expand...

What do you think that price would be and who could afford it. I think £20m would get rid of SISU, but who would pay it?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #204
martcov said:
Second club to exsisting stadium owner....? Club then has ground. Investor has club.
Click to expand...

Which would be marvellous except that a) SISU will want a chunk of that £50m back and b) Derek Richardson has a sneaky tendency to relocate clubs at a whim.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #205
How are SISU going to get a chunk of that 50 million back now.
I can't see it by adding 25 million onto it?
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #206
stupot07 said:
Not this again......wasps will not be buying the club.

People need to forget this idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

I think you would need to be the owner of wasps to make that statement
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #207
Bennets Afro said:
What do you think that price would be and who could afford it. I think £20m would get rid of SISU, but who would pay it?
Click to expand...

Who knows. One thing we can say for sure is that they are better negotiators than SISU so it wont be on SISU's terms.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #208
skybluetony176 said:
Who knows. One thing we can say for sure is that they are better negotiators than SISU so it wont be on SISU's terms.
Click to expand...

Not really, SISU managed to return their club to its home area, Wasps didn't. Therefore Wasps are worse negotiators.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #209
skybluetony176 said:
Anyone remember the "SISU are the only show in town" line?

I aint saying its going to happen but if they can pick up CCFC up for the right price why wouldn't they?
Click to expand...

Because of the massive financial risks.

1) wasps losing £3m per annum, massive risk and uncertainty over whether they can attract and sustain a new fan base.

2) ACL currently doesn't make enough profit to cover wasps losses, and in all probably won't for a couple of years

3) the financial risk of football clubs, football clubs lose money, if they took us over expectations would be high, we'd expect championship football at least. In the championship we'd be losing £6-8m per annum to just be a lower midtable side

4) if they bought the club then ACL's small profits would be further diluted as they would be going into both the rugby and football operations, I imagine the owner would be having to foot a bill of £6-8m per annum across the 2 clubs.

It's far too much risk, wasps have been clear that derek richardson's money was about to run out, they were about to be insolvent, they have had to canvass for investment to be able to purchase the Ricoh. There is no more money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
Last edited: Nov 28, 2014
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 28, 2014
  • #210
dongonzalos said:
How are SISU going to get a chunk of that 50 million back now.
I can't see it by adding 25 million onto it?
Click to expand...

That is the golden question however the answer almost certainly is not by renting from Wasps with no access to the money they generate on a matchday.
 
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